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LDS LDS---YIKES!

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mmksparbud

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If you read the history of the Prophet JS you will find the command to practice plural marriage. For very good reasons, God commanded that the Church of Jesus Christ practice plural marriage, and it worked the way he expected it to.

When God accomplished what he intended, and the laws of the nation changed, He commanded that we stop practicing plural marriage. We do what God commands.


I'm still waiting for this earth shattering reason God brought back something He had outlawed for over 2000 years.
 
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He is the way

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No, your point was more than that at the time and now you're trying to back track it. I never said you were wrong about David breaking the commandments, or any of his punishments for doing so. After all, it's right there in the Bible. I said you were wrong that David didn't know the Lord, or that the Lord did not know him. It's okay to admit you were wrong.
In order to know God it is necessary to keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 5)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

David did not keep the commandments.
 
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mmksparbud

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In order to know God it is necessary to keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 5)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

David did not keep the commandments.


And? He was forgiven! You don't seem to get the concept of what forgiveness is! Scripture puts lying and murder in the same category---sin.
Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
 
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Rescued One

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You were the one who brought up the 613 commandments. Why didn't you list them?
It isn't necesary to list them. The fact that you can't is proof that they don't matter to you.
 
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He is the way

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And? He was forgiven! You don't seem to get the concept of what forgiveness is! Scripture puts lying and murder in the same category---sin.
Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
The breaking of the commandments is sin and all sin keeps us from God. While lying and murder are both sins murder is the greater sin. After David broke the commandments God allowed him to live but he was and is punished for his sins.
 
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Ironhold

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And if you look at Christian history, you see that there have been black everything in Christianity since forever. The East African kingdom of Axum was converted to Christianity in the 320s (traditionally 330, though there's coinage from at least a few years before that which has Christian motifs, suggesting that the traditional date might be a bit late), the first bishops were sent to the Nubian areas of Egypt and Sudan in the 340s, there is of course St. Philip's dialogue with the Ethiopian in Acts, and so on.

You may be able to make the LDS religion's late awakening be in line with secular history, but there is no doubt that it lagged far behind what the Christian world as a whole had always accepted: that black people make perfectly find bishops, priests, monks, etc., and there should be no difference between them and anyone else in the Church. We are all one in Christ, and I would consider it a blessing to receive from any Ethiopian, Eritrean, Sudanese, or other black priest, as I have had the blessing to celebrate the liturgy alongside many laypeople from these places.

This tells me you're unaware of the fact that Joseph Smith did provide the priesthood to a handful of black members, and that the church was racially integrated all the way through. Smith's 1844 presidential platform even included a plan by which the government would raise money so that it could pay slave-owners to free their slaves.

Smith did indeed try to racially integrate the church, whatever his personal views on blacks might have been. The exclusion went in place under Brigham Young, but even then it wasn't a total exclusion. As it was, though, even though the US government forced Utah to accept "slave" status in order to keep an equal number of slave and free places going, Utah's laws concerning slave ownership were so extreme in nature that it was often cheaper to free one's slaves and hire servants.

I've not seen a lot of primary source documentation from Young himself, but I personally question if a good chunk of his prohibition didn't have anything to do with what happened in Missouri; the church being so welcoming to free blacks was one of the major sticking points between the members and the locals.
 
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mmksparbud

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The breaking of the commandments is sin and all sin keeps us from God. While lying and murder are both sins murder is the greater sin. After David broke the commandments God allowed him to live but he was and is punished for his sins.

The bible does not differentiate between sins. All transgression of the law is sin---the breaking of any one of them is the same punishment---death.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
God does not state anywhere that murder is a graver sin than adultery, or lying, or stealing or anything else.
David repented, was forgiven, paid the consequences and that is it--God forgets our sins.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

You truly have no idea who God the Father, Son or Holy Spirit are.
 
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Ironhold

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When was the last time you read your black Christian history in America? There was a time, not long ago, when a black Christian could not walk into a lot of white Christian church, remember?

Even today, you'll find people making the argument that Sunday morning is the most racially-segregated time of the week due to how many people just automatically filter into congregations based solely on race.
 
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Rescued One

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In order to know God it is necessary to keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 5)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

David did not keep the commandments.
Christian God forgives sinners.jpg Christian Christ Rescues.jpg Christian John 10-14-15- I Know My Sheep.jpg
 
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mmksparbud

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This tells me you're unaware of the fact that Joseph Smith did provide the priesthood to a handful of black members, and that the church was racially integrated all the way through. Smith's 1844 presidential platform even included a plan by which the government would raise money so that it could pay slave-owners to free their slaves.

Smith did indeed try to racially integrate the church, whatever his personal views on blacks might have been. The exclusion went in place under Brigham Young, but even then it wasn't a total exclusion. As it was, though, even though the US government forced Utah to accept "slave" status in order to keep an equal number of slave and free places going, Utah's laws concerning slave ownership were so extreme in nature that it was often cheaper to free one's slaves and hire servants.

I've not seen a lot of primary source documentation from Young himself, but I personally question if a good chunk of his prohibition didn't have anything to do with what happened in Missouri; the church being so welcoming to free blacks was one of the major sticking points between the members and the locals.

Yep--there were 2 black priests--Praise the LORD!


Over the past two centuries, the relationship between black people and Mormonism has a history that includes both official and unofficial discrimination and more recently it includes increased outreach and involvement. Since the earliest decade of the church Black Mormons have been members of the LDS Church. While at least two black men held the priesthood in the early church, from the mid-1800s until 1978, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) had a policy which prevented most men of black African descent from being ordained to the church's lay priesthood and barred black men and women from access to its temples.

Under the temple and priesthood restrictions before 1978, black members of African descent could not be ordained to offices in the Priesthood nor could they participate in temple ordinances besides baptisms for the dead. For a time in the 1960s and 1970s, they were not even allowed to perform baptisms for the dead. For men and boys beginning at the age of 12 in the LDS church, priesthood ordination is required in order to hold leadership roles, perform baptisms, bless the sacrament, and give other blessings. Since black men of African descent could not hold the priesthood, they were excluded from holding leadership roles and performing these rituals. Temple ordinances are necessary for members who wish to receive the endowment and marriage sealings which are necessary for exaltation, and most black members could not enjoy these privileges during their lifetimes. Church leaders taught that these restrictions were commanded by God. In 1978, the First Presidency and the Twelve, led by church president Spencer W. Kimball, declared they had received a revelation that the time had come to end these restrictions. After this revelation, people of African descent could hold priesthood offices and could be granted temple admittance. Since that time due to the policy change and increased outreach the number of black members in the LDS church has growth rapidly, especially in Africa. The priesthood of most other Mormon denominations, such as the Community of Christ, Bickertonite, and Strangite, have always been open to persons of all races.
 
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mmksparbud

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No, it proves you don't keep them, therefore you are essentially saying, "Keep the commandments even if I don't."



You can't list them. Neither can you say that you keep them.


I will have to say that there are only 10 commandments written by the hand of God and kept inside the ark. The others were written down by Moses and kept outside the ark. The temple feasts pointing to the sacrifice of Jesus as The Sacrificial Lamb were done away with at the cross---the 10 have never been done away with. There are endless threads about this topic! Many say the same thing to us that though we keep the Sabbath we don't keep the over 600 hundred---God wrote on stone---Moses on parchment. One --the 10--is permanent--the rest are not. And I still say that no Mormon has ever kept the 10 for they have never kept the 7th day Sabbath---and there have been tons of threads on that subject (the 7th day) And I think I've been on most of them.
 
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I will have to say that there are only 10 commandments written by the hand of God and kept inside the ark. The others were written down by Moses and kept outside the ark. The temple feasts pointing to the sacrifice of Jesus as The Sacrificial Lamb were done away with at the cross---the 10 have never been done away with. There are endless threads about this topic! Many say the same thing to us that though we keep the Sabbath we don't keep the over 600 hundred---God wrote on stone---Moses on parchment. One --the 10--is permanent--the rest are not. And I still say that no Mormon has ever kept the 10 for they have never kept the 7th day Sabbath---and there have been tons of threads on that subject (the 7th day) And I think I've been on most of them.

I won't discuss your denomination's interpretation with you. But Mormons are way off the track because they worship false gods.
 
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mmksparbud

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Even today, you'll find people making the argument that Sunday morning is the most racially-segregated time of the week due to how many people just automatically filter into congregations based solely on race.

That is by their choice, not because of prejudiced laws. We have what are called "Ethnic churches"---there are Philippino-because they want it that way, we go to theirs, they come to ours, but they want to worship in their own language and style. There are Spanish ones and black ones for the same reasons, and because there is a church in their community that is closer--not because they are not wanted--we go to each other's churches all the time---esp. at potluck!! Potlucks are always thoroughly integrated!!
 
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He is the way

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The bible does not differentiate between sins. All transgression of the law is sin---the breaking of any one of them is the same punishment---death.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
God does not state anywhere that murder is a graver sin than adultery, or lying, or stealing or anything else.
David repented, was forgiven, paid the consequences and that is it--God forgets our sins.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

You truly have no idea who God the Father, Son or Holy Spirit are.
As I said: "The breaking of the commandments is sin and all sin keeps us from God. While lying and murder are both sins murder is the greater sin. After David broke the commandments God allowed him to live but he was and is punished for his sins." There is a sin unto death and also an unpardonable sin.

(New Testament | John 17:12)

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
 
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He is the way

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No, it proves you don't keep them, therefore you are essentially saying, "Keep the commandments even if I don't."



You can't list them. Neither can you say that you keep them.
I did list them, however I know that whoever wroth #2 is wrong in their evaluation of the meaning of the scripture.
 
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He is the way

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In case you don't understand, His sheep aren't sinless, but they still know Him and follow Him!
We don't follow false shepherds who come to steal.

I hope you do know Him because that means that you are keeping the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 5)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
 
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