LDS LDS---YIKES!

[He is the way]

And you have admitted that you are a sinner and do not keep the commandments. Therefore, according to your words, you do not love Jesus. Same thing you are accusing David of, despite Biblical references indicating otherwise.

I did no such thing. I admitted that like everyone else I have sinned. I did not say that I continue to sin or that I do not keep the commandments. You made that up.

We know that David did break the commandments later in life. Before that he had done well. It only takes one bad decision to get off of the right path.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I did no such thing. I admitted that like everyone else I have sinned. I did not say that I continue to sin or that I do not keep the commandments. You made that up.

We know that David did break the commandments later in life. Before that he had done well. It only takes one bad decision to get off of the right path.

Are you now sin free?

Why do you get a pass as a sinner for breaking the commandments, yet David, even though it may be "later in life" as you said, doesn't? How do you know the condition of his heart when he died? How do know if he repented of his sins, like I assume you have based on your words above?

 

[Rescued One]

Not at all, John made it perfectly clear that those who do not keep the commandments don't know God.

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 4)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Which commandments was the author referring to? What do you do with 1 John 1:7-9?

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[He is the way]

Are you now sin free?

Why do you get a pass as a sinner for breaking the commandments, yet David, even though it may be "later in life" as you said, doesn't? How do you know the condition of his heart when he died? How do know if he repented of his sins, like I assume you have based on your words above?

It is only when a person is keeping the commandments that they can know God because the commandments are LOVE and God is LOVE. It is as the Bible says:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:3 - 6)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

But David forsook the commandments:

(Old Testament | 2 Samuel 12:7 - 9)

7 ¶ And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

The spirit of God resides in the righteous:

(New Testament | Romans 8:7 - 10)

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[He is the way]

Which commandments was the author referring to? What do you do with 1 John 1:7-9?

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The law of sacrifice by the shedding of blood was fulfilled in Christ's atonement. The two great commandments:

(New Testament | Matthew 22:37 - 40)

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Then there is this:

(New Testament | James 4:17)

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

We also have the ten commandments and the higher commandments given to us in the sermon on the mount. Jesus also said:

(New Testament | John 15:12 - 14)

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

As far as 1 John 1: (7-9) is concerned, it needs to agree with the context of:
(New Testament | 1 John 2:5 - 6)

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[mmksparbud]

God has destroyed other people who would not abide his laws. This is not a new concept.

It was vitally important that JS listen to Jesus's instructions, and bring about the law of plural marriage to the early Church of Jesus Christ.

LOL! It was vitally important for JS to get his hands on that sweet young thing that was not his wife and that is why HE brought pleural marriage in. No other reason--God never demanded it of anyone!

 

[mmksparbud]

You said: "Then, as you have admitted that you do not keep his commandments" I didn't say that I do not keep the commandments, I said I, like everyone else, have sinned. Do you not understand the difference?

And what is sin?
1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You and David sinned--transgressed the law---thou shalt not murder is no less a sin than lying--God forgave David His sin. Break one--you break them all! So don't tell me that God deals differently with a murderer than with a liar!

Rev_2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Don't tell me you haven't lied for you have lied on here --you have been deceitful in what you say your believes are but your prophets say differently than you do. You guys are always obscuring the truth of your believes---it is lying, plain and simple.

 

[He is the way]

And what is sin?
1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You and David sinned--transgressed the law---thou shalt not murder is no less a sin than lying--God forgave David His sin. Break one--you break them all! So don't tell me that God deals differently with a murderer than with a liar!

Rev_2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Don't tell me you haven't lied for you have lied on here --you have been deceitful in what you say your believes are but your prophets say differently than you do. You guys are always obscuring the truth of your believes---it is lying, plain and simple.

Yes there is greater sin as mentioned in the Bible:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:16)

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

(New Testament | Matthew 12:31 - 32)

31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
(New Testament | John 19:11)

11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

(New Testament | Matthew 11:21 - 24)

21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:21 - 22)

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

(New Testament | Luke 12:47 - 48)

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

"As you can see, Jesus taught that there are degrees of sin. But all sin separates us from God "

From: Are there different levels or degrees of sin? | CARM.org

 

[He is the way]

And what is sin?
1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You and David sinned--transgressed the law---thou shalt not murder is no less a sin than lying--God forgave David His sin. Break one--you break them all! So don't tell me that God deals differently with a murderer than with a liar!

Rev_2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Don't tell me you haven't lied for you have lied on here --you have been deceitful in what you say your believes are but your prophets say differently than you do. You guys are always obscuring the truth of your believes---it is lying, plain and simple.

It is your opinion that I lied and your opinion that Joseph Smith lied about seeing God the Father and Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith said:
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:24 - 25)

24 However, it was nevertheless a fact that I had beheld a vision. I have thought since, that I felt much like Paul, when he made his defense before King Agrippa, and related the account of the vision he had when he saw a light, and heard a voice; but still there were but few who believed him; some said he was dishonest, others said he was mad; and he was ridiculed and reviled. But all this did not destroy the reality of his vision. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the persecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise.
25 So it was with me. I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me; and though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me falsely for so saying, I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes there is greater sin as mentioned in the Bible:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:16)

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

(New Testament | Matthew 12:31 - 32)

31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
(New Testament | John 19:11)

11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

(New Testament | Matthew 11:21 - 24)

21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:21 - 22)

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

(New Testament | Luke 12:47 - 48)

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

"As you can see, Jesus taught that there are degrees of sin. But all sin separates us from God "

From: Are there different levels or degrees of sin? | CARM.org

No---not different levels of sin---different levels of punishment for sin. The young man who steals $5.00 is not going to get punished as severely as someone who stole $500. The one that murders one will not be punished more or even equal to the one that kills many, even hundreds or even millions. An unrepentant killer of one is not going to pay a greater price than Hitler.
However--forgiveness is forgiveness---and if they are forgiven---God does even remember their sin anymore---which is why David is still a man after God's own heart for he did ask for and was given forgiveness---just as any liar who asks for forgiveness will be forgiven.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is your opinion that I lied and your opinion that Joseph Smith lied about seeing God the Father and Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith said:
(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:24 - 25)

24 However, it was nevertheless a fact that I had beheld a vision. I have thought since, that I felt much like Paul, when he made his defense before King Agrippa, and related the account of the vision he had when he saw a light, and heard a voice; but still there were but few who believed him; some said he was dishonest, others said he was mad; and he was ridiculed and reviled. But all this did not destroy the reality of his vision. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the persecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise.
25 So it was with me. I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me; and though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me falsely for so saying, I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation.

Not opinion, fact---you say one thing, your prophets have said something else entirely and wrote it down, yet you deny what they say. That is not opinion, it is plain simple fact. Just as it is plain simple facts that JS is not a prophet of God.

 

[He is the way]

No---not different levels of sin---different levels of punishment for sin. The young man who steals $5.00 is not going to get punished as severely as someone who stole $500. The one that murders one will not be punished more or even equal to the one that kills many, even hundreds or even millions. An unrepentant killer of one is not going to pay a greater price than Hitler.
However--forgiveness is forgiveness---and if they are forgiven---God does even remember their sin anymore---which is why David is still a man after God's own heart for he did ask for and was given forgiveness---just as any liar who asks for forgiveness will be forgiven.

So you do not agree with CARM?

Are there different levels or degrees of sin? | CARM.org

 

[He is the way]

Not opinion, fact---you say one thing, your prophets have said something else entirely and wrote it down, yet you deny what they say. That is not opinion, it is plain simple fact. Just as it is plain simple facts that JS is not a prophet of God.

You have your facts mixed up. You also argue that we believe things that we don't believe.

 

[mmksparbud]

So you do not agree with CARM?

Are there different levels or degrees of sin? | CARM.org

I agree with the bible. It is the punishment that has degrees. Sin, according to the bible is all abhorrent to God---the murderer and the liar are in the same category as every other sin---it is sin. There is no such thing as a "little sin" and a big sin. If you murder one man, if you murder 6 million---it is sin. The 6 million gets punished more than the one that killed once----but it is still sin.

 

[mmksparbud]

You have your facts mixed up. You also argue that we believe things that we don't believe.

Pah-lease---it was shown you in black and white written by the hand of your own prophets and you denied that is what you believe. When you are shown the direct quote--you simply ignore.

 

[Rescued One]

The law of sacrifice by the shedding of blood was fulfilled in Christ's atonement. The two great commandments:

(New Testament | Matthew 22:37 - 40)

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Then there is this:

(New Testament | James 4:17)

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

We also have the ten commandments and the higher commandments given to us in the sermon on the mount. Jesus also said:

(New Testament | John 15:12 - 14)

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

As far as 1 John 1: (7-9) is concerned, it needs to agree with the context of:
(New Testament | 1 John 2:5 - 6)

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

So it had nothing to do with Mormonism.

 

[He is the way]

I agree with the bible. It is the punishment that has degrees. Sin, according to the bible is all abhorrent to God---the murderer and the liar are in the same category as every other sin---it is sin. There is no such thing as a "little sin" and a big sin. If you murder one man, if you murder 6 million---it is sin. The 6 million gets punished more than the one that killed once----but it is still sin.

It stands to reason that if the punishment is greater that the sin is greater.

 

[He is the way]

Pah-lease---it was shown you in black and white written by the hand of your own prophets and you denied that is what you believe. When you are shown the direct quote--you simply ignore.

You have ignored a lot of my posts.

 

[He is the way]

So it had nothing to do with Mormonism.

Anyone that can keep those commandments will have life eternal.

 

[Rescued One]

MUST KEEP COMMANDMENTS
The third thing we need to remember is that we covenanted to keep his commandments. How can a member of the Church partake of the sacrament and renew these covenants, and then go forth from this assembly, and deliberately break any of the divine commandments! In doing such a thing we bring condemnation to our souls. Far better for members if the Church never to partake of these emblems, thus renewing these three covenants, than to partake of them and then go forth to commit sin. It is, however, a solemn commandment from the Lord, that we do partake of the sacrament. Those who repeatedly and constantly disregard this commandment and remain away from this sacrament meeting, will lose the Spirit of the Lord, for his Spirit will not dwell in those who fail to renew these covenants in a consistent manner.
This is the doctrine that Paul tried to teach the Corinthian members of the Church.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol. 3, pp. 4-5