LDS LDS: The Book of Mormon

[mmksparbud]

This tells me that you're not as familiar with the subject matter as you would like people to believe.

Sorry---I meant Missouri!

 

[fatboys]

Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Alma ???
I rest my case.
He is a fraud.

And 85% of the couples you marry are still together. You must be right

 

[drstevej]

And 85% of the couples you marry are still together. You must be right

Off topic. Why do you attribute the Book of Alma to Joseph Smith as the author?

 

[fatboys]

Off topic. Why do you attribute the Book of Alma to Joseph Smith as the author?

He translated it

 

[drstevej]

He translated it

I have translated sections of the Bible as well but I would NEVER dare to say I was the author!

 

[withwonderingawe]

Alma 7:10

Note it says at Jerusalem and not in Jerusalem.

"BYU professor Daniel C. Peterson pointed out the absurdity of this argument:

To suggest that Joseph Smith knew the precise location of Jesus' baptism by John ("in Bethabara, beyond Jordan" (1 Ne. 10:9) but hadn't a clue about the famous town of Christ's birth is so improbable as to be ludicrous. Do the skeptics seriously mean to suggest that the Book of Mormon's Bible-drenched author (or authors) missed one of the most obvious facts about the most popular story in the Bible — something known to every child and Christmas caroler? Do they intend to say that a clever fraud who could write a book displaying so wide an array of subtly authentic Near Eastern and biblical cultural and literary traits as the Book of Mormon does was nonetheless so stupid as to claim, before a Bible-reading public, that Jesus was born in the city of Jerusalem? As one anti-Mormon author has pointed out, "Every schoolboy and schoolgirl knows Christ was born in Bethlehem." [Langfield, 53.] Exactly! It is virtually certain, therefore, that Alma 7:10 was foreign to Joseph Smith's preconceptions. "The land of Jerusalem" is not the sort of thing the Prophet would likely have invented, precisely for the same reason it bothers uninformed critics of the Book of Mormon." (FAIR)

In the Book of Mormon there are city state geographical areas, there is the city of Nephi and the Land of Nephi, there is the city of Zarahemla and the land of Zarahemla. It is rather consistent in the way it is expressed. In ancient times one could be a man of Athens yet never step foot in Athens the city, one could be of Rome but never go to Rome the city.

There is a ancient letter which uses almost the same wording;

In the El Amarna letter #287 there is this line "--As the king has placed his name in Jerusalem forever, he cannot abandon it—the land of Jerusalem"

Somewhere in that letter the town of Bethlehem is mentioned
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarna_letter_EA_287
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem

If you go here you'll find a discussion with Dr. Daniel Peterson
http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms/Biblical/Jerusalem_vs_Bethlehem

 

[ToBeLoved]

And 85% of the couples you marry are still together. You must be right

Why do you tend to get personal to the poster? This is not good.

 

[Ironhold]

Why do you tend to get personal to the poster? This is not good.

What you're seeing is only a small amount of how personal critics of the LDS faith tend to get with us.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What you're seeing is only a small amount of how personal critics of the LDS faith tend to get with us.

But does that make it right? Or Godly?

It would seem to me that you are inviting that behavior if you do it yourself. Not trying to be judgemental, but I'm just observing that.

I'm asking myself, why do they want to bring on that behavior in others by leading by example and doing the things they seem to not want others to do to them. Maybe think about that a little.

 

[Ironhold]

But does that make it right? Or Godly?

It would seem to me that you are inviting that behavior if you do it yourself. Not trying to be judgemental, but I'm just observing that.

I'm asking myself, why do they want to bring on that behavior in others by leading by example and doing the things they seem to not want others to do to them. Maybe think about that a little.

Actually?

In most instances, here's how it works.

"Hello internet!"

"Who are you?"

"I'm a new user. blablablablablabla Oh, I'm also a Mormon."

"YOU'RE A MORMON?! DIE HERETIC!"

"Wait - what?!"

"[extended string of profanity]"

That's how it happened with me, and it's how it happened with a lot of other members of the church who posted online. The minute we mentioned we were Mormon, we had targets on our backs and were subjected to all sorts of abuse.

I think you can imagine why some people are a wee bit temperamental now.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Actually?

In most instances, here's how it works.

"Hello internet!"

"Who are you?"

"I'm a new user. blablablablablabla Oh, I'm also a Mormon."

"YOU'RE A MORMON?! DIE HERETIC!"

"Wait - what?!"

"[extended string of profanity]"

That's how it happened with me, and it's how it happened with a lot of other members of the church who posted online. The minute we mentioned we were Mormon, we had targets on our backs and were subjected to all sorts of abuse.

I think you can imagine why some people are a wee bit temperamental now.

This has been my experience as well. Though I try not to let it get me down, and not succumb to the temptation to punch them back.

 

[fatboys]

Why do you tend to get personal to the poster? This is not good.

Its nice to here that 85% of those he married are still together. Now I don't know the length of any of the marriages and really don't care but I have heard this claim several times. It is bragging. Even though it is a great thing it is still bragging. Now it wouldn't have been so bad the first time but I mace read it at least four times. It's like the sun for Santa. You secretly give presents to the kids and then after Christmas as you see them playing with the toys you walk up and say "I bought them for you". Does that make sense

 

[mmksparbud]

Actually?

In most instances, here's how it works.

"Hello internet!"

"Who are you?"

"I'm a new user. blablablablablabla Oh, I'm also a Mormon."

"YOU'RE A MORMON?! DIE HERETIC!"

"Wait - what?!"

"[extended string of profanity]"

That's how it happened with me, and it's how it happened with a lot of other members of the church who posted online. The minute we mentioned we were Mormon, we had targets on our backs and were subjected to all sorts of abuse.

I think you can imagine why some people are a wee bit temperamental now.

LOL--"IE HERETIC???" I find it rather hard to believe anybody said that! I'm SDA--we get bashed all the time--nobody ever said that! (It's been a while since the last bashing, we're past due)---Catholics get it also--you are not alone--but anyone saying such a thing would get reprimanded by the mods. I've been spanked a few times by the mods myself for saying much less then that!!

 

[Ironhold]

LOL--"IE HERETIC???" I find it rather hard to believe anybody said that! I'm SDA--we get bashed all the time--nobody ever said that! (It's been a while since the last bashing, we're past due)---Catholics get it also--you are not alone--but anyone saying such a thing would get reprimanded by the mods. I've been spanked a few times by the mods myself for saying much less then that!!

I've been online for 15+ years, during which I've been to several different websites.

I have literally been told by self-professed "good Christians" that we Mormons "deserve" to suffer whatever we suffer - including death - simply because we're Mormon.

These people literally hold that JS "declared war" (their words) on mainline Christianity with the First Vision, and so even those who wouldn't dirty their hands by actually doing so wouldn't shed a tear if someone hurt or even killed us because of our faith.

 

[mmksparbud]

I've been online for 15+ years, during which I've been to several different websites.

I have literally been told by self-professed "good Christians" that we Mormons "deserve" to suffer whatever we suffer - including death - simply because we're Mormon.

These people literally hold that JS "declared war" (their words) on mainline Christianity with the First Vision, and so even those who wouldn't dirty their hands by actually doing so wouldn't shed a tear if someone hurt or even killed us because of our faith.

And God will judge them. That is not a Christian attitude. God doesn't like to even destroy the wicked, just has to be. Who is lost and who is saved is up to God alone. If God isn't happy about it, we shouldn't be either. There are issues that are a matter of salvation and others that are not. I have a sneaky suspicion that most of us are in for a few surprises.

Eze_18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 

[BigDaddy4]

FYI, Ironhold's continuous perceived persecution complex is off topic. So is the 85% discussion.

How about back to the topic?

 

[fatboys]

FYI, Ironhold's continuous perceived persecution complex is off topic. So is the 85% discussion.

How about back to the topic?

You know this ticks me off when you dismiss persecution. I have had threats made to me personally by Christians. I use to wonder how citizens of America could have hated the church so much as to not only murder Joseph Smith but drive members out of their homes n the dead of winter which killed many. When you see zealots at every conference or any church production using the tactics they use it really helps me see how it could have turned to murderous hearts. I have taken the time to speak to some of these people and the only spirit that is with them is evil.

 

[BigDaddy4]

You know this ticks me off when you dismiss persecution. I have had threats made to me personally by Christians. I use to wonder how citizens of America could have hated the church so much as to not only murder Joseph Smith but drive members out of their homes n the dead of winter which killed many. When you see zealots at every conference or any church production using the tactics they use it really helps me see how it could have turned to murderous hearts. I have taken the time to speak to some of these people and the only spirit that is with them is evil.

Your perceived persecution complex is also off topic.

 

[Peter1000]

Its nice to here that 85% of those he married are still together. Now I don't know the length of any of the marriages and really don't care but I have heard this claim several times. It is bragging. Even though it is a great thing it is still bragging. Now it wouldn't have been so bad the first time but I mace read it at least four times. It's like the sun for Santa. You secretly give presents to the kids and then after Christmas as you see them playing with the toys you walk up and say "I bought them for you". Does that make sense

__________________________________________________________________________________

fatboys,

In this day and age, for a pastor to have an 85% marriage and mentoring success, we need to hear this a thousand times. We need to encourage him to continue his good work.

If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praisworthy, we seek after these things.

 

[Peter1000]

I have translated sections of the Bible as well but I would NEVER dare to say I was the author!

___________________________________________________________________________________

Neither did JS! Joseph signs off as the translator, not the author. I'm not sure how you missed that difference?