LDS LDS: The Book of Mormon

[Ironhold]

the Biblical Cannon has been closed

...we've long since established that most of the arguments for the canon being closed don't hold up under scrutiny.

 

[mmksparbud]

[citation needed]

I though everybody knew that.

The only native American groups to develop genuine and indigenous writing and written languages before the influence of white Europeans were in Mexico Central America, where Aztecs, Mayas, Olmecs, Mixtecs, Zapotecs and others used glyphs to represent the sounds of their languages.
http://www.answers.com/Q/Do_american_indians_have_a_written_language

 

[ToBeLoved]

...we've long since established that most of the arguments for the canon being closed don't hold up under scrutiny.

It is in your best interest to think that, isn't it?

 

[Jane_Doe]

It is in your best interest to think that, isn't it?

I'm actually waiting for a closed-cannon-believer to address my post on this. I'll repost it here.

Its not off topic at all. It was in answer to your post about both the bible and the Book of Mormon being authoritative

Source? You ask

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

This isn't speaking just of Revelation as some would believe. This is actually a quote from the Old Testament So this is actually speaking of the whole bible

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Prophecy ended with the completion of the canon, ending with Revelation. Tell me what do you think the book of Mormon is, but an addition to the bible. Especially when it contradicts the bible in a thousand ways.

To say that prophecy never ended, as Charismatics, Mormons, JWs, Muslims and others believe is to say that the bible is insufficient and that belief does nothing but lead people down a thousand different paths of error

Question: why would you say the Revelation quote applies to more than just Book of Revelation?

Let's say, hypothetically, that such a quote in the Bible were to say "Nope there can never be any new revelation of any type."
1) Why does the Bible not end at Deuteronomy?
2) It is widely believed that the books 2nd Peter, Titus, 1&2 Timothy, and Epistles of John, and the Gospel of John were written after the Book of Revelation. Why are they then included? Is John damned?
3) How are the Protestant reformers not damned for removing the Apocrypha?

 

[mmksparbud]

It doesn't say no new revelation-- it doesn't say no prophesies--it says
(Act 2:17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

There will be prophecies, esp in the last days.


(Deu 12:32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Any prophecy from God, can not contradict His already stated words. He and Christ are one in thought---you can not contradict the words of Jesus Christ. Any prophecy, any revelation from God, will always be in harmony with what has already been said by God and Jesus. We can not alter His words, can not diminish them, or add to them to suit our own views. God is not the author of confusion. All revelation must conform to His already written word. When Christ says no marriage in heaven, He means just that, and no one can alter that.

 

[Jane_Doe]

It doesn't say no new revelation-- it doesn't say no prophesies--it says
(Act 2:17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

There will be prophecies, esp in the last days.

If you believe that there is more prophecy, especially in the last day, do you believe in a closed cannon?

Any prophecy from God, can not contradict His already stated words. He and Christ are one in thought---you can not contradict the words of Jesus Christ. Any prophecy, any revelation from God, will always be in harmony with what has already been said by God and Jesus. We can not alter His words, can not diminish them, or add to them to suit our own views. God is not the author of confusion. All revelation must conform to His already written word. When Christ says no marriage in heaven, He means just that, and no one can alter that.

If that is your position, can you explain why Peter's revelation in Acts, which revoked the previously declared kosher laws?

 

[ToBeLoved]

If you believe that there is more prophecy, especially in the last day, do you believe in a closed cannon?

If that is your position, can you explain why Peter's revelation in Acts, which revoked the previously declared kosher laws?

No prophecy even in the last days conflicts with the Bible.

To your second question. The Law of Moses, which includes the food laws were part of the Old Covenant to the Hebrew people.

When Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law, by keeping it perfectly, Jesus death and blood served is the permanent atonement (in the Old Testament there were animal sacrifices made for temporary atonement of sin) for all sin, Jesus brought the New Covenant. The New Covenant is for both Jew and Gentile and does not contain any dietary restrictions. As an example of this, Paul and Peter (as well as other former Jews, now following Christ) ate formerly banned food with the Gentiles to show that they are no longer under the Old Covenant as Jews that follow Jesus Christ.

 

[Jane_Doe]

No prophecy even in the last days conflicts with the Bible.

So you disagree with mmksparbud and his quoting of Acts 2:17? (Post #125)

To your second question. The Law of Moses, which includes the food laws were part of the Old Covenant to the Hebrew people.

When Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law, by keeping it perfectly, Jesus death and blood served is the permanent atonement (in the Old Testament there were animal sacrifices made for temporary atonement of sin) for all sin, Jesus brought the New Covenant. The New Covenant is for both Jew and Gentile and does not contain any dietary restrictions. As an example of this, Paul and Peter (as well as other former Jews, now following Christ) ate formerly banned food with the Gentiles to show that they are no longer under the Old Covenant as Jews that follow Jesus Christ.

Is this not a revision the way God acts His people to behave? In that the old law as fulfilled and the new one introduced? (For the record I agree with everything you said here)

 

[mmksparbud]

If you believe that there is more prophecy, especially in the last day, do you believe in a closed cannon?



If that is your position, can you explain why Peter's revelation in Acts, which revoked the previously declared kosher laws?

Kosher Laws?? What was revoked, and was always a plan of God was the elimination of the Levitical laws, the priestly laws which were no longer applicable with the death of Christ. They were not the ones written by the hand of God, but by Moses.
The sacrificial lamb was always pointing forward to the time Jesus would fill it's place. He is now our High Priest.

(Col 2:14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(Jer 31:33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[Jane_Doe]

They were not the ones written by the hand of God, but by Moses.

Time out here: do you think the Law of Moses was not written by God?

I'll get to rest of the post after this.

 

[ToBeLoved]

So you disagree with mmksparbud and his quoting of Acts 2:17? (Post #125)

I said that there is no new prophecy that would CONFLICT with the Bible. Please read what I said.

 

[ToBeLoved]

If that is your position, can you explain why Peter's revelation in Acts, which revoked the previously declared kosher laws?

No man can revoke God's Law. God Himself fulfilled the Law and the Old Covenant and brought the New Covenant.

The revelation to Peter was by God, explaining to Peter that food laws were not part of the New Covenant.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I would like to discuss post #119 which talks about how there WILL be false prophets who will try to lead the sheep astray from the Word of God.

I can copy and paste the post if it would be easier. We have been openly answering your questions, so I want to know if you believe what the Bible says about false prophets?

 

[Jane_Doe]

I said that there is no new prophecy that would CONFLICT with the Bible. Please read what I said.

My apologies, I misunderstood.

 

[mmksparbud]

Time out here: do you think the Law of Moses was not written by God?

I'll get to rest of the post after this.

Given by God, God only wrote the 10 commandments. with His own hand. These He wrote on stone, permanent. Levitical laws were written by the hand of Moses, not permanent. God does nothing without a purpose. Those laws were always planned for removal through the death of Christ and the new covenant, as stated in the OT--fulfilled with Christ.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I would like to discuss post #119 which talks about how there WILL be false prophets who will try to lead the sheep astray from the Word of God.

Ok, I can go back to that. (Jane flips back and pastes #119 on here)

But let's look at how God speaks to humanity. With Jesus Christ blood, we have the New Covenant, Christ with us and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

I believe this too.

With that being true and with God telling us that the Biblical Cannon has been closed we know that God speaks to each of us through the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you that the Holy Spirit allows God to communicate with us. I disagree with you in that this means the cannon is closed. For starters, if the cannon was closed when the Holy Spirit poured out, that would disqualify most of the NT.

What we are warned about consistantly even by Jesus Christ Himself is that their will be false prophets.

Matthew 7:15
15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

1 Timothy 3;13
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Acts 20:29-30
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ to another gospel:

I agree with you that there are many Biblical warnings about false prophets, false teachings, etc. I see many of them in this world now, and through history. I'm guessing that you would agree with me in that we should be weary of falsehood and fortify ourselves by studying His word and communicating with God through prayer (mediated by the Holy Spirit).

What we disagree on is which teachers and teachings are the false ones.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Given by God, God only wrote the 10 commandments. with His own hand. These He wrote on stone, permanent. Levitical laws were written by the hand of Moses, not permanent. God does nothing without a purpose. Those laws were always planned for removal through the death of Christ and the new covenant, as stated in the OT--fulfilled with Christ.

So, would you say that God is not the author of the Levitical law and the extensive OT passages which describe them?

Note: I'm asking specifically on who you think is the author, not whether they were ever meant to be permeant.

 

[mmksparbud]

So, would you say that God is not the author of the Levitical law and the extensive OT passages which describe them?

Note: I'm asking specifically on who you think is the author, not whether they were ever meant to be permeant.

I said they were given By God, written down by Moses. There are only 3 examples of God handwriting anything: the 10 commandments, the handwriting on the Babylonian wall, and Jesus writing on the dirt when the adulteress woman was brought to Him. Everything in the bible is authored by God, through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I said they were given By God, written down by Moses. There are only 3 examples of God handwriting anything: the 10 commandments, the handwriting on the Babylonian wall, and Jesus writing on the dirt when the adulteress woman was brought to Him. Everything in the bible is authored by God, through the Holy Spirit.

Ok. So you believe that the Levitical Law was given by God and written down by Moses. And the revocation of the Levitical Law was given by God and written by Peter? (I'm making sure I got this straight)

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes, the revocation of the Levitical laws was always planned, it was not a new concept.