LDS LDS: The Book of Mormon

[jackcv]

No, not at all.

The Mayans called him Kukulkan, "the descending god" who came to earth, then returned to heaven, promising to return again. We have been all of the Yucatan and seen the carvings of him. At the top of the temple pyramid at Coba there are two bas relief carvings, one coming down, the other rising back up. Attached is the first, and is typical. I have misplaced the other, which shows the upper torso, head, arms and hands rising upward.
The city of Tulum was built in honor of this God, whose star was Venus - the Morning Star (Rev 22:16)
This white, bearded god is the primary god in Central America. Different names, many different legends, but the same core, and history is clear that Cortez gained much power over the natives because of their belief that he was the returning god.
Capt. James Cook was welcomed as the returning white, bearded god in Polynesia, and killed when the enraged natives realized (from the behavior of Cook's men) that he was not so.
The Spanish priests who attended the Spaniard Conquest repeatedly noted that the customs and fasts, etc. of the natives of America were of apparent Israelite origin. One of the reasons they gathered and destroyed so many historical treasures, books, codexes, was their conclusion that the Mayan, Aztec and other religions were counterfeit Christianity and needed to be wiped out in order to help the people to accept the true Catholic doctrines. There are numerous footnotes of their observations and conclusions in my copy of the Popul Vuh.
This is all so well documented that to deny it is a due diligence failure of significant proportions.
This does not mean that Central America was the site of the Book of Mormon Lehite narrative, although my wife and I believe that geography, archeology and mythology of this area make it the most probable. The work of archeologist Richard Hansen at El Mirador is proving conclusively that the Popul Vuh narratives are pre-Columbian, and not derived from Catholic teachings.

 

[Tawhano]

history is clear that Cortez gained much power over the natives because of their belief that he was the returning god.

If it is clear then why do scholars debate it still? Cortes failed to record this in his journal and only included this idea in a letter many years after. As I said before I do not discount the idea I am just not convinced it is historically accurate.

 

[Tawhano]

___________________________________________________________________

I also noticed that you have a statement about polygamy on this post. How much research have you done on the history of polygamy in the OT and NT?

Enough to know it was a common practiced.

 

[mmksparbud]

I've found down through the years that SDA and LDS doctrines are very, very parallel in most instances. I think there are a lot of Celestial people from both religions who will be surprised to see each other on the same throne (Rev 3:21).

Of course, I also expect there will be a lot of Christians, Mormons and SDAs who will be surprised to see that God is a Being of Light, brilliant white, with curly hair, thick lips, a broad nose - who looks and sounds like James Earl Jones. Maybe.

Well, I've always been rather fond of the idea of when Christ comes, He will look like whomever the person hates--to the White supremists--black as coal--to those who hate the Oriental---yellow skin and slanted eyes--and so one--can't you hear the "ooooopss"---
some believes are similar--many are not, though.

We win when we are one in the Savior and the Father as they are one in each other.

The voice of our Shepherd is heard by the individual, direct from the Shepherd.

Can't disagree with that.

 

[withwonderingawe]

I give you this little Christmas tidbit which is kind of my favorite musings but it is something you’ll never hear in a Mormon Sunday School class, it certainly is not Mormon doctrine.

Matt 2
1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judæa in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

Why were they troubled? Because there is no prophecy concerning a new star at least not in the Biblical Scriptures we have.

4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judæa: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

The priest had to look in their scriptures for something about Bethlehem, they knew nothing about a new star.

But the prophecy is in The Book of Mormon;

It was a time when the white Nephites had become wicked and they had a Prophet whose name is Nephi son of Helamen (they liked that name Nephi a lot). The Lord sends Samuel the Lamanite to help call them to repentance and to give them a sign of the Lord’s birth. He stood up on a great wall as he prophesied and he said

“…for behold, there shall be great lights in heaven, insomuch that in the night before he cometh there shall be no darkness, insomuch that it shall appear unto man as if it was day….And behold, there shall a new star arise, such an one as ye never have beheld; and this also shall be a sign unto you…”

He also tells them the signs of the Saviors death and calls them to repentance. The people try to kill him but he jumps down from the wall and returns to his own people “And behold, he was never heard of more among the Nephites”

On the very next page in the next book which is called 3 Nephi there is this;

“Nephi, the son of Helaman, had departed out of the land of Zarahemla, giving charge unto his son Nephi, who was his eldest son, concerning the plates of brass, and all the records which had been kept, and all those things which had been kept sacred from the departure of Lehi out of Jerusalem. Then he departed out of the land, and whither he went, no man knoweth..”

I contend the wise men were Samuel, Nephi and perhaps several others who had joined them. They retraced Lehi’s steps back to Jerusalem, bringing gold and picking up some frankincense and myrrh as they traveled the old spice trails.

Matthew says “they departed into their own country another way” we don’t know if they ever made it home.

 

[jackcv]

I give you this little Christmas tidbit which is kind of my favorite musings but it is something you’ll never hear in a Mormon Sunday School class, it certainly is not Mormon doctrine.

Matt 2
1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judæa in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

Why were they troubled? Because there is no prophecy concerning a new star at least not in the Biblical Scriptures we have.

4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judæa: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

The priest had to look in their scriptures for something about Bethlehem, they knew nothing about a new star.

But the prophecy is in The Book of Mormon;

It was a time when the white Nephites had become wicked and they had a Prophet whose name is Nephi son of Helamen (they liked that name Nephi a lot). The Lord sends Samuel the Lamanite to help call them to repentance and to give them a sign of the Lord’s birth. He stood up on a great wall as he prophesied and he said

“…for behold, there shall be great lights in heaven, insomuch that in the night before he cometh there shall be no darkness, insomuch that it shall appear unto man as if it was day….And behold, there shall a new star arise, such an one as ye never have beheld; and this also shall be a sign unto you…”

He also tells them the signs of the Saviors death and calls them to repentance. The people try to kill him but he jumps down from the wall and returns to his own people “And behold, he was never heard of more among the Nephites”

On the very next page in the next book which is called 3 Nephi there is this;

“Nephi, the son of Helaman, had departed out of the land of Zarahemla, giving charge unto his son Nephi, who was his eldest son, concerning the plates of brass, and all the records which had been kept, and all those things which had been kept sacred from the departure of Lehi out of Jerusalem. Then he departed out of the land, and whither he went, no man knoweth..”

I contend the wise men were Samuel, Nephi and perhaps several others who had joined them. They retraced Lehi’s steps back to Jerusalem, bringing gold and picking up some frankincense and myrrh as they traveled the old spice trails.

Matthew says “they departed into their own country another way” we don’t know if they ever made it home.

The answers are in the questions. The Joseph Smith said, “I have a key by which I understand the scriptures. I enquire, what was the question which drew out the answer or caused Jesus to utter the parable?” That is, I have learned, a master key. Of course, Joseph seems to have innately comprehended the 5 components of Mighty Prayer found in Mni 10:4, so he avoided the problems mentioned in D&C 88:64-65, and one of my favorites Alma 29:4.

Now, this particular line of inquiry does not attract me in the least, but it may have deep import to your mission on this earth. Maybe the 3 Nephite Bodhisatvas were the Wise men...but, no...

 

[withwonderingawe]

The answers are in the questions. The Joseph Smith said, “I have a key by which I understand the scriptures. I enquire, what was the question which drew out the answer or caused Jesus to utter the parable?” That is, I have learned, a master key. Of course, Joseph seems to have innately comprehended the 5 components of Mighty Prayer found in Mni 10:4, so he avoided the problems mentioned in D&C 88:64-65, and one of my favorites Alma 29:4.

Now, this particular line of inquiry does not attract me in the least, but it may have deep import to your mission on this earth. Maybe the 3 Nephite Bodhisatvas were the Wise men...but, no...

It's not one of those thing which will effect my eternal salvation but I enjoy the possibility.

 

[mmksparbud]

I give you this little Christmas tidbit which is kind of my favorite musings but it is something you’ll never hear in a Mormon Sunday School class, it certainly is not Mormon doctrine.

Matt 2
1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judæa in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

Why were they troubled? Because there is no prophecy concerning a new star at least not in the Biblical Scriptures we have.

4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judæa: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

The priest had to look in their scriptures for something about Bethlehem, they knew nothing about a new star.

But the prophecy is in The Book of Mormon;

It was a time when the white Nephites had become wicked and they had a Prophet whose name is Nephi son of Helamen (they liked that name Nephi a lot). The Lord sends Samuel the Lamanite to help call them to repentance and to give them a sign of the Lord’s birth. He stood up on a great wall as he prophesied and he said

“…for behold, there shall be great lights in heaven, insomuch that in the night before he cometh there shall be no darkness, insomuch that it shall appear unto man as if it was day….And behold, there shall a new star arise, such an one as ye never have beheld; and this also shall be a sign unto you…”

He also tells them the signs of the Saviors death and calls them to repentance. The people try to kill him but he jumps down from the wall and returns to his own people “And behold, he was never heard of more among the Nephites”

On the very next page in the next book which is called 3 Nephi there is this;

“Nephi, the son of Helaman, had departed out of the land of Zarahemla, giving charge unto his son Nephi, who was his eldest son, concerning the plates of brass, and all the records which had been kept, and all those things which had been kept sacred from the departure of Lehi out of Jerusalem. Then he departed out of the land, and whither he went, no man knoweth..”

I contend the wise men were Samuel, Nephi and perhaps several others who had joined them. They retraced Lehi’s steps back to Jerusalem, bringing gold and picking up some frankincense and myrrh as they traveled the old spice trails.

Matthew says “they departed into their own country another way” we don’t know if they ever made it home.

Yes, well, the BOM wasn't around to help the wise men seeing as it didn't get written until JS.

(Num 24:14) And now, behold, I go unto my people: come therefore, and I will advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people in the latter days.
(Num 24:15) And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said:
(Num 24:16) He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
(Num 24:17) I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Yes, well, the BOM wasn't around to help the wise men seeing as it didn't get written until JS.

(Num 24:14) And now, behold, I go unto my people: come therefore, and I will advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people in the latter days.
(Num 24:15) And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said:
(Num 24:16) He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
(Num 24:17) I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

While a Star out of Jacob refers to our Savior it says nothing about a new star appearing in the heavens.

 

[mmksparbud]

While a Star out of Jacob refers to our Savior it says nothing about a new star appearing in the heavens.

It is the star they were searching the scriptures for---"THERE SHALL COME A STAR"

 

[withwonderingawe]

It is the star they were searching the scriptures for---"THERE SHALL COME A STAR"

'Out of Jacob', how did a real star come out of Jacob and get placed in the heavens to guide these three wise men?

 

[mmksparbud]

'Out of Jacob', how did a real star come out of Jacob and get placed in the heavens to guide these three wise men?

I'll ask God next time I see Him.

Why were they troubled? Because there is no prophecy concerning a new star at least not in the Biblical Scriptures we have.

You said there nothing in the bible about a star--there is.
There are obviously books that we do not have, as they are mentioned in scripture--however, not one of those mentioned are the ones JS wrote about.

 

[Hammster]

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