LDS LDS: The Book of Mormon

[createdtoworship]

You're going way off on a tangent, there.

Let's bring this one back in.

The church is the author and publisher of its own materials, regardless of whose presses are hired to actually produce the physical copies. Because of this, under American copyright law, the church is able to claim a copyright on anything it produces. Not only does this protect the church's material from intellectual property theft (which has, in fact, happened in the past), it also provides members with a quick way of seeing what is or is not official. All they have to do is flip to the copyright info page and see whose name is next to the (c) symbol.

If the church's name, or Intellectual Reserve, is next to that symbol, then it means the material in question is officially produced by the church. Therefore, the material is obviously officially sanctioned and officially accepted.

If you see someone else's name in the copyright, then it means that the church had nothing to do with it, regardless of who owns whatever organization that owns the copyright in question.

You see, just because the church owns something doesn't mean that the church tells it what to do. The church is actually quite demand-side when it comes to meeting the needs of its members, such that over the years it's created numerous corporations to solve problems for everyone. The church has the right to call on these companies if it needs something (for example, Deseret Book handles some of the church's print jobs), but otherwise that company has the right to operate how it sees fit. This includes BYU, which is free to publish whatever it wants to publish.

On top of this, we have organizations that are fully independent but which produce material aimed at Mormon audiences, such as Bookcraft and Halestorm Entertainment. Obviously, these people wouldn't have anything resembling an ability to dictate what is or isn't official.

actually you are off topic too.

the OP is on your history of america.

So seeing you are just going to dodge everything I just said, let's just bring this back to basics, and we can stem from there.

Do you really know what Joseph smith and Brigham young believed and did?

are you familiar with their histories?

(will be continued tomorrow)

 

[createdtoworship]

repeat

 

[Ironhold]

are you familiar with their histories?

Of course I am.

 

[createdtoworship]

Of course I am.

ok, well we will have a history lesson on them in a little bit.

but for now, again, we need the basics, like Joseph smiths false prophecies.

I have been in contact over the years with a research ministy CARM, and this is quotes of Smith's failed prophecies. following is from carm.org:
https://carm.org/false-prophecies-of-joseph-smith

False prophecies of Joseph Smith from allegedly inspired and official LDS literature.
(our opinions are not what matter as no one here is officials in LDS, what matters is what is actually stated in official LDS books like belows false prophecies. Iron hold already established that all print must be official (even his I suppose) see here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/lds-the-book-of-mormon.7918224/#post-68878711)

1. "Prophecy that the temple would be built in Missouri within Smith's Generation--"Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house . . . 31Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed,"(Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5, 31). See context: firstly, The Mormons were driven out of Jackson County in 1833. They were not gathered there in accordance to this prophecy dealing with building the temple. Secondly, The prophecy clearly states that the generation present when the prophecy was given would not pass away until the temple was built at the western boundaries of the state of Missouri which is in Independence. The temple was not built at that time, this prophecy is false.
2. All Nations would be involved in the American Civil War--"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3). See contextThis is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.
3. Prophesy that the earth will tremble and the sun be hidden in "not many days": "For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree," (Doctrine and Covenants 88:87). See context-The sun hasn't yet been hidden nor has the moon hidden its face.This prophecy was given on 12/27/1832. "Not many days hence"? Since the writing of this article on 6/22/06, it has been 63,364 days or 173 years, 5 months, 26 days. I think that 63,364 days is more than "Not many days hence"?- For reference to January 1, 2000, it was 61,000 days (even) or 167 years, 5 days.
4. Prophecy that Isaiah 11 was about to be fulfilled--"In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, s aying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when 'they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,' but soon would come," (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40). See context- Isaiah 11:6-9 says, "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7 Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."-This has not yet been fulfilled. The wolf is not dwelling with the lamb, the calf and the lion are not together, nor are the cow and bear grazing together. The lion is not eating straw like an ox. Nursing children are not playing in the dens of cobras."- above quotes from CARM.org

 

[withwonderingawe]

ok, well we will have a history lesson on them in a little bit.

but for now, again, we need the basics, like Joseph smiths false prophecies.

I have been in contact over the years with a research ministy CARM, and this is quotes of Smith's failed prophecies. following is from carm.org:
https://carm.org/false-prophecies-of-joseph-smith

False prophecies of Joseph Smith from allegedly inspired and official LDS literature.
(our opinions are not what matter as no one here is officials in LDS, what matters is what is actually stated in official LDS books like belows false prophecies. Iron hold already established that all print must be official (even his I suppose) see here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/lds-the-book-of-mormon.7918224/#post-68878711)

1. "Prophecy that the temple would be built in Missouri within Smith's Generation--"Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house . . . 31Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed,"(Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5, 31). See context: firstly, The Mormons were driven out of Jackson County in 1833. They were not gathered there in accordance to this prophecy dealing with building the temple. Secondly, The prophecy clearly states that the generation present when the prophecy was given would not pass away until the temple was built at the western boundaries of the state of Missouri which is in Independence. The temple was not built at that time, this prophecy is false.
2. All Nations would be involved in the American Civil War--"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3). See contextThis is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.
3. Prophesy that the earth will tremble and the sun be hidden in "not many days": "For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree," (Doctrine and Covenants 88:87). See context-The sun hasn't yet been hidden nor has the moon hidden its face.This prophecy was given on 12/27/1832. "Not many days hence"? Since the writing of this article on 6/22/06, it has been 63,364 days or 173 years, 5 months, 26 days. I think that 63,364 days is more than "Not many days hence"?- For reference to January 1, 2000, it was 61,000 days (even) or 167 years, 5 days.
4. Prophecy that Isaiah 11 was about to be fulfilled--"In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, s aying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when 'they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,' but soon would come," (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40). See context- Isaiah 11:6-9 says, "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7 Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."-This has not yet been fulfilled. The wolf is not dwelling with the lamb, the calf and the lion are not together, nor are the cow and bear grazing together. The lion is not eating straw like an ox. Nursing children are not playing in the dens of cobras."- above quotes from CARM.org

This really deserves it's own thread don't ya think

 

[createdtoworship]

Tanner Brody’s has some criticisms about the Book of Mormon, so I thought I would start a thread dedicated just to criticizing the book.

Tanner said; Normally all credability would have been lost after Joseph Smith's asseration that Native Americans were not Asian but decended from the lost tribes of Israel but for some reason this religion still ropes people in defiance of truth and fact

*Let’s start this off with a study published in 2014 just so you will know your information is old out dated and incorrect.

Upper Palaeolithic Siberian genome reveals dual ancestry of Native Americans.
The origins of the First Americans remain contentious. Although Native Americans seem to be genetically most closely related to east Asians, there is no consensus with regard to which specific Old World populations they are closest to. Here we sequence the draft genome of an approximately 24,000-year-old individual (MA-1), from Mal'ta in south-central Siberia, to an average depth of 1×. To our knowledge this is the oldest anatomically modern human genome reported to date. The MA-1 mitochondrial genome belongs to haplogroup U, which has also been found at high frequency among Upper Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, and the Y chromosome of MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and near the root of most Native American lineages. Similarly, we find autosomal evidence that MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and genetically closely related to modern-day Native Americans, with no close affinity to east Asians. This suggests that populations related to contemporary western Eurasians had a more north-easterly distribution 24,000 years ago than commonly thought. Furthermore, we estimate that 14 to 38% of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from this ancient population. …..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24256729

A Quote;
The normal way of dealing with the Book of Mormon
"scientifically" has been first to attribute to the Book of
Mormon something it did not say, and then to refute the
claim by scientific statements that have not been proven.
Hugh Nibley

I heard about one funny debate on the radio where this guy was quoting from a book about dna and insisting it proved the Book of Moron false. The Mormon guy asked him who wrote the book and he gave the name, the Mormon replied that’s me and you’re wrong.

We do have geneticist who teach at BYU, case in point;

“Consider the case of Dr. Ugo A. Perego, a Latter-day Saint population geneticist. His genealogy confirms that he is a multigeneration Italian, but the DNA of his paternal genetic lineage is from a branch of the Asian/Native American haplogroup C. This likely means that, somewhere along the line, a migratory event from Asia to Europe led to the introduction of DNA atypical of Perego’s place of origin. If Perego and his family were to colonize an isolated landmass, future geneticists conducting a study of his descendants’ Y chromosomes might conclude that the original settlers of that landmass were from Asia rather than Italy..”

All kinds of funny things happen with dna and it’s not as simple as the anti Mormons would like you to think.

I used to have a CD about DNA and the Book of mormon relating to the Jews in america.

but basic DNA studies refute what you say.

do you have anything in peer review from a non mormon?

that is something that we may start discussion about.

quoting preconcieved ideas, against something you think is a preconception, is not really valid.

you must quote something non mormon.

can you do that?

if, not try google scholar.

or do a search for "athiest proves book of mormon"

or whatever you want.

My studies of the geography, and other historical, paleantological, and even scientific aspects of the book of mormon,


really dwarf this threads scope,

so lets try something that proves you rpoint that is non mormon.

if you do only have mormon sources, then please find peer review.

and peer review should hold a phd in related field.

then we can say your view is fact, only after establishing this.

if you wish to talk faith, we can talk faith,

but if you wish to talk science, you must quote scientists, not only theologians.

 

[createdtoworship]

ok, well we will have a history lesson on them in a little bit.

but for now, again, we need the basics, like Joseph smiths false prophecies.

I have been in contact over the years with a research ministy CARM, and this is quotes of Smith's failed prophecies. following is from carm.org:
https://carm.org/false-prophecies-of-joseph-smith

False prophecies of Joseph Smith from allegedly inspired and official LDS literature.
(our opinions are not what matter as no one here is officials in LDS, what matters is what is actually stated in official LDS books like belows false prophecies. Iron hold already established that all print must be official (even his I suppose) see here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/lds-the-book-of-mormon.7918224/#post-68878711)

1. "Prophecy that the temple would be built in Missouri within Smith's Generation--"Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house . . . 31Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed,"(Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5, 31). See context: firstly, The Mormons were driven out of Jackson County in 1833. They were not gathered there in accordance to this prophecy dealing with building the temple. Secondly, The prophecy clearly states that the generation present when the prophecy was given would not pass away until the temple was built at the western boundaries of the state of Missouri which is in Independence. The temple was not built at that time, this prophecy is false.
2. All Nations would be involved in the American Civil War--"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3). See contextThis is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.
3. Prophesy that the earth will tremble and the sun be hidden in "not many days": "For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree," (Doctrine and Covenants 88:87). See context-The sun hasn't yet been hidden nor has the moon hidden its face.This prophecy was given on 12/27/1832. "Not many days hence"? Since the writing of this article on 6/22/06, it has been 63,364 days or 173 years, 5 months, 26 days. I think that 63,364 days is more than "Not many days hence"?- For reference to January 1, 2000, it was 61,000 days (even) or 167 years, 5 days.
4. Prophecy that Isaiah 11 was about to be fulfilled--"In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, s aying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when 'they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,' but soon would come," (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40). See context- Isaiah 11:6-9 says, "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7 Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."-This has not yet been fulfilled. The wolf is not dwelling with the lamb, the calf and the lion are not together, nor are the cow and bear grazing together. The lion is not eating straw like an ox. Nursing children are not playing in the dens of cobras."- above quotes from CARM.org

new thread about this, please refer comments to it..

 

[Ironhold]

[tabbed list that doesn't break up into quotes properly]

To begin with, you're going to need a better source than CARM; few serious debaters on either side regard them as reputable, and IIRC there have been reports of cult-like behavior on their website (making them the very thing they're claiming to fight against).

That being said -

1. Building the temple: website JC Not 4 Me.com listed this example under their "Jesus, Joe, and Ed" page back in the day, noting that Ed Decker's willingness to condemn JS over this prophecy but his silence on similar statements from the Gospels represented a gross act of Christian hypocrisy.

2. Civil War: If you'll check world history, you'll see that practically ever since the 1860s there has been war somewhere in the world, meaning that war did, indeed, spill out upon all of the nations.

 

[mmksparbud]

To begin with, you're going to need a better source than CARM; few serious debaters on either side regard them as reputable, and IIRC there have been reports of cult-like behavior on their website (making them the very thing they're claiming to fight against).

That being said -

1. Building the temple: website JC Not 4 Me.com listed this example under their "Jesus, Joe, and Ed" page back in the day, noting that Ed Decker's willingness to condemn JS over this prophecy but his silence on similar statements from the Gospels represented a gross act of Christian hypocrisy.

2. Civil War: If you'll check world history, you'll see that practically ever since the 1860s there has been war somewhere in the world, meaning that war did, indeed, spill out upon all of the nations.

He gave 4 false prophecies and all you can say is the on #1--He (Decker) was silent about similar statements made in the gospels----are you saying that the gospels state a temple would be built in Missouri???!!! Never read that. Besides which, the prophecy doesn't state just a temple, but the New Jerusalem is to be built in Missouri--beginning with the temple.
Problem is, the New Jerusalem will not be built by any human hands--it comes down from God, He has made it. And it comes down from God when He comes---after the old earth has been destroyed and made new.

(Rev 21:1) I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth have passed away, and the sea is no more.
(Rev 21:2) I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.

• and then you say that since the civil war there has been war somewhere in the world. But that is not what the prophecy is saying. Jesus said there would be wars and rumors of wars. JS said that Great Britain and other nations would be involved in the Civil War between North and South. Whatever other wars are brewing, or have brewed, have nothing to do with the Civil War.

 

[createdtoworship]

To begin with, you're going to need a better source than CARM; few serious debaters on either side regard them as reputable, and IIRC there have been reports of cult-like behavior on their website (making them the very thing they're claiming to fight against).

That being said -

1. Building the temple: website JC Not 4 Me.com listed this example under their "Jesus, Joe, and Ed" page back in the day, noting that Ed Decker's willingness to condemn JS over this prophecy but his silence on similar statements from the Gospels represented a gross act of Christian hypocrisy.

2. Civil War: If you'll check world history, you'll see that practically ever since the 1860s there has been war somewhere in the world, meaning that war did, indeed, spill out upon all of the nations.

so this would be your fifth contradiction I believe.

you state that I need better sources, yet you refer to world history and do not quote official LDS interpretations of US History.

all replies should go to new forum, as this topic is technically off topic for the OP

post repeated in this new forum on the topic, created for in depth discussion.

Joseph Smith- traveling jeweler with his travelers tales and false prophecies

 

[ToBeLoved]

This really deserves it's own thread don't ya think

That is what I was thinking.

 

[Ironhold]

so this would be your fifth contradiction I believe.

This makes it seem as if you're just picking nits at this point, looking for any excuse to write off any Mormon who knows more about the topic than what your sources do.

As we've explained repeatedly, when it comes to LDS theology and history, you'd do well to examine materials produced by the church. Not only are these considered authoritative by actual members, these works may also reveal sides of the issues that your sources don't show. In contrast, some of the supposedly "Mormon" sources cited by critics of the church come from non-official sources that frequently contain erroneous material.

That being said, nobody ever said anything about not appealing to historical events.

 

[createdtoworship]

This makes it seem as if you're just picking nits at this point, looking for any excuse to write off any Mormon who knows more about the topic than what your sources do.

As we've explained repeatedly, when it comes to LDS theology and history, you'd do well to examine materials produced by the church. Not only are these considered authoritative by actual members, these works may also reveal sides of the issues that your sources don't show. In contrast, some of the supposedly "Mormon" sources cited by critics of the church come from non-official sources that frequently contain erroneous material.

That being said, nobody ever said anything about not appealing to historical events.

I am unsubscribing to this thread, if you wish to talk to me about this, there is a thread created specifically for your concerns,

here:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...travelers-tales-and-false-prophecies.7918814/

should you decide not to show,

win the debate by default

 

[rockytopva]

In the Apostles time they were continually dealing with people trying to bend and manipulate scripture.

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2 Peter 3

I would say from examining the above scritures that the Apostle Paul would consider the supporters of the book of Mormon accursed.

 

[createdtoworship]

repeat

 

[createdtoworship]

repeated, sorry.

 

[rockytopva]

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2

Paul said that he was determined not to know anything save Jesus Christ and him crucified. In which, the whole Mormon thing is one huge mental web that keeps on spinning as one enters the movement.

 

[Ironhold]

4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom,

I think you need to look more closely at this portion of your post.

Paul didn't want to convert people with his oratorical skills and/or his ability to infodump.

He wanted the gospel to convert people.

In that sense, I don't think this passage is truly relevant to the argument that you're trying to make.

 

[mmksparbud]

Point is, however, that Paul definitely did say that he was determined to know nothing save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The other point of what Paul says is that he wants the gospel to convert people, not him. And the gospel is still what converts people. And it still is all that is needed---no fancy words, nothing else needed. Just Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

 

[Ironhold]

Point is, however, that Paul definitely did say that he was determined to know nothing save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The other point of what Paul says is that he wants the gospel to convert people, not him. And the gospel is still what converts people. And it still is all that is needed---no fancy words, nothing else needed. Just Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

In that case, one could just as easily question why so much of mainline Christianity has built "webs" of their own.