LDS LDS Jesus -- Married with Children ???

[He is the way]

Sacred not secret? Lying for the lord?

So you think it is ok for the leaders of the LDS church to intentionally hide from its own members what it really believes about the marital status of Jesus Christ?

I don't know how much the leaders of the LDS Church know, but I do know that there are people that know more through their diligence in serving the Lord. Jesus said:
(New Testament | Mark 4:10 - 13)

10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

There are clues for those who seek.

 

[RoseCrystal]

I don't know how much the leaders of the LDS Church know.

They knew Jesus was married (something you yourself believe) and the President/Prophet of the church instructed that it be kept from members, because swine can't handle pearls.

Source for below fairmormon.org

"Joseph Fielding Smith apparently believed that Jesus had been married
Joseph Fielding Smith apparently believed that Jesus had been married, and that He had children. In a 1963 letter to Elder Smith (then President of the Quorum of the Twelve), J. Ricks Smith asked for clarification on a question he had concerning the marital and paternal status of Jesus:

Burbank, California March 17, 1963

President Joseph Fielding Smith 47 East South Temple Street Salt Lake City 11, Utah

Dear President Smith:

In a discussion recently, the question arose, "Was Christ married?" The quote of Isaiah 53:10 was given, which reads,

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put Him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul and offering for sin, he shall see His seed, he shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

What is meant by "he shall see his seed"? Does this mean that Christ had children?

In the Temple ceremony we are told that only through Temple marriage can we receive the highest degree of exaltation and dwell in the presence of our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Christ came here to set us the example and, therefore, we believe that he must have been married. Are we right?

Sincerely,

J. Ricks Smith 1736 N. Ontario Street Burbank, California

In a written response (on the same letter), Elder Smith indicated his feelings on the matter—both in the positive. Placing an asterisk next to the words "His seed" in the letter, at the bottom of the letter Elder Smith wrote:

*Mosiah 15:10-12 Please Read Your Book of Mormon!

Placing two asterisks next to the words "he must have been married," at the bottom of the letter Elder Smith wrote:

**Yes! But do not preach it! The Lord advised us not to cast pearls before swine!

Apparently Elder Smith believed that the married state of Jesus was true, but that it should not be preached to others."

 

[throughfiierytrial]

This is the verses:

(New Testament | Acts 8:32 - 33)

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

This was taken from:
(Old Testament | Isaiah 53:7 - 8)

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

I believe this is about the generation in which Jesus lived, and not about His descendants.

I can go into this in more detail later, but something to ponder is the question given us in those Scriptures and the brief phrase which follows: ...and who shall declare His generation? for He was cut off out of the land of the living:...

You'll see your response is not the answer. The generation of people He left (on earth to go back into the heavens) remained and passed on His teachings.) One must read this as archaic speech, the generation of His physical seed.

 

[He is the way]

They knew Jesus was married (something you yourself believe) and the President/Prophet of the church instructed that it be kept from members, because swine can't handle pearls.

Source for below fairmormon.org

"Joseph Fielding Smith apparently believed that Jesus had been married
Joseph Fielding Smith apparently believed that Jesus had been married, and that He had children. In a 1963 letter to Elder Smith (then President of the Quorum of the Twelve), J. Ricks Smith asked for clarification on a question he had concerning the marital and paternal status of Jesus:

Burbank, California March 17, 1963

President Joseph Fielding Smith 47 East South Temple Street Salt Lake City 11, Utah

Dear President Smith:

In a discussion recently, the question arose, "Was Christ married?" The quote of Isaiah 53:10 was given, which reads,

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put Him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul and offering for sin, he shall see His seed, he shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

What is meant by "he shall see his seed"? Does this mean that Christ had children?

In the Temple ceremony we are told that only through Temple marriage can we receive the highest degree of exaltation and dwell in the presence of our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Christ came here to set us the example and, therefore, we believe that he must have been married. Are we right?

Sincerely,

J. Ricks Smith 1736 N. Ontario Street Burbank, California

In a written response (on the same letter), Elder Smith indicated his feelings on the matter—both in the positive. Placing an asterisk next to the words "His seed" in the letter, at the bottom of the letter Elder Smith wrote:

*Mosiah 15:10-12 Please Read Your Book of Mormon!

Placing two asterisks next to the words "he must have been married," at the bottom of the letter Elder Smith wrote:

**Yes! But do not preach it! The Lord advised us not to cast pearls before swine!

Apparently Elder Smith believed that the married state of Jesus was true, but that it should not be preached to others."

I can understand why Jesus would not want His family to be known. Just as He didn't want it known that He was the Christ:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:20)

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

 

[He is the way]

I can go into this in more detail later, but something to ponder is the question given us in those Scriptures and the brief phrase which follows: ...and who shall declare His generation? for He was cut off out of the land of the living:...

You'll see your response is not the answer. The generation of people He left (on earth to go back into the heavens) remained and passed on His teachings.) One must read this as archaic speech, the generation of His physical seed.

Generation does not need to be about physical seed of an individual:

(New Testament | Luke 21:31 - 33)

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

It can be about an entire generation of people.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Thank you for answering the question instead of trying to dodge it, I wish more LDS members would do the same. I don't agree with you but I do commend you for having the guts to be honest about what you believe.

RC, I have answered you question repeatedly with my view: Hyde's comment does not matter.
Ironhold and I also explained that this is something people have different opinions on in the LDS community, the most common one being a lack of agreement with Hyde's comment. There is a minority of folks who personally agree (example: HITW).

Again, this has been explained to you repeatedly. It would be must appreciated to have our time here acknowledged and respected, rather than this comment which does the opposite.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Sacred not secret? Lying for the lord?

So you think it is ok for the leaders of the LDS church to intentionally hide from its own members what it really believes about the marital status of Jesus Christ?

Actually LDS folks (as individuals and as an institution) spend lots time and energy to explain things to whomever wants to listen (LDS or not). This is illustrated even here, where you've had multiple folks spend time to explain things in an environment which (frankly) is entirely hostile to LDS people. We don't have to be here, and it would be much easier not to be. Your comment here is a slap in the face to that effort.

 

[timewerx]

Scripturally there is no comment whatsoever about a possible marriage of Jesus one way or another.

The same thing could be said about Peter. The Bible made no mention that Peter having a wife either. But the Bible mentions Jesus healing Peter's mother in law which implies Peter had a wife.

If Jesus didn't have to heal Peter's mother in law, we'll have no clue Peter had a wife.

Based on these info, only one thing is certain that being married or not, isn't important enough to be written in scriptures.

So it's possible that if Jesus is married, it would not been written in the Bible either and we would not have known.

Therefore, there's simply no way to be certain that Jesus got married or not. Nor that it would be a big deal that He did got married.

 

[Rescued One]

God is self-sufficient. He needs nothing. He made Eve for a specific purpose --- so that Adam would not be alone.

God is not alone. He is Triune.

Genesis 2
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.


Jesus had a purpose when He came here. He came to save sinners.

As already mentioned by another poster, Matthew 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. 12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.


1 Corinthians 7
32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: 33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. 34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35 And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

Revelation 14
4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Revelation 14 NIV
4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

 

[Anto9us]

Mat 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

The context of that was talking about marriages that WERE done on earth - and who would be the husband in the afterlife -- this was posed by mocking Sadducees who did not even believe in a resurrection.

But the point is that Jesus said that in the resurrection, there are no marriages. This is why it blows the 'celestial marriage' idea out of the water.

I simply do not understand how, when there is this clear statement from Christ Himself, that this idea can persist that there are marriages in heaven among LDS, and that such a big deal is made of it.

 

[Anto9us]

Mat 22:23
The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

Mat 22:24
Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Mat 22:25
Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

Mat 22:26
Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

Mat 22:27
And last of all the woman died also.

Mat 22:28
Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Mat 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Mat 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

[Anto9us]

Not everything is mentioned in the Bible -- but pertaining to this thread, there ARE some things that we Know.

No marriages in the resurrection.

The wedding at Cana where Jesus turned water into wine was NOT His own wedding -- Bible says Jesus and His disciples were INVITED to that wedding.

Martha and Mary of Bethany lived there with their brother Lazarus -- they were NOT Jesus' wives.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Generation does not need to be about physical seed of an individual:

(New Testament | Luke 21:31 - 33)

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

It can be about an entire generation of people.

But that would be taking this language entirely out of context. Isaiah is prophesying about Jesus we know that with certainty. You are dancing in circles to avoid the discussion.

 

[RoseCrystal]

RC, I have answered you question repeatedly with my view: Hyde's comment does not matter.
Ironhold and I also explained that this is something people have different opinions on in the LDS community, the most common one being a lack of agreement with Hyde's comment. There is a minority of folks who personally agree (example: HITW).

Again, this has been explained to you repeatedly. It would be must appreciated to have our time here acknowledged and respected, rather than this comment which does the opposite.

The comment was for @He is the way to show him appreciation and respect for answering a simple yes or no question about what he himself believed, with a yes or a no.

 

[RoseCrystal]

Actually LDS folks (as individuals and as an institution) spend lots time and energy to explain things to whomever wants to listen (LDS or not). This is illustrated even here, where you've had multiple folks spend time to explain things in an environment which (frankly) is entirely hostile to LDS people. We don't have to be here, and it would be much easier not to be. Your comment here is a slap in the face to that effort.

I am talking about the leaders of the LDS Church purposely withholding information about its beliefs from its own members. With evidence, if this is a slap in the face to LDS people, its coming from the leaders of the LDS Church, not from me. I didn't call the members of the LDS Church swine, Joseph Fielding Smith did in 1963, because he believed they couldn't handle the truth that Jesus was married.

 

[Jane_Doe]

The comment was for @He is the way to show him appreciation and respect for answering a simple yes or no question about what he himself believed, with a yes or a no.

Are you going to acknowledge mine or Ironhold's answers/time?
That the full picture is more complex than a binary response?

 

[Rescued One]

The truth has been given: 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Mormons admit that the Father god is married; that means Mormons can't say that Jesus did not do what the Father god did without rejecting the multiple statements that temple marriage is a requirement for eternal life/godhood.

So then one of them will claim it has been explained that such and such is not doctrine; that isn't an explanation of anything if the non-Mormon has already agreed that it's not doctrine.

 

[Rescued One]

I can understand why Jesus would not want His family to be known. Just as He didn't want it known that He was the Christ:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:20)

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

He had no problem letting His mother and friends be known.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Generation does not need to be about physical seed of an individual:

(New Testament | Luke 21:31 - 33)

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

It can be about an entire generation of people.

In case you have not seen the Scripture I already posted regarding marriage it also pertains to the issue of whether or not Jesus Christ was married...which He certainly was not...I'll post them here...
Matthew 19:10-13:
The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Jesus was/is our leader and King...I am sure He accepted it...as Isaiah/Acts also back up.

 

[RoseCrystal]

Are you going to acknowledge mine or Ironhold's answers/time?
That the full picture is more complex than a binary response?

You didn't answer my yes or no question with a yes or a no. I simply asked if you believe Jesus was married, to one woman or multiple doesn't really matter.

So I give you the opportunity again (but I expect you won't of course) to answer the questions with a yes or a no. You can answer either or both if you like, but they are yes or no questions.

Do you personally believe Jesus was married?
Yes or No?

Do you think it was wrong for Orson Hyde in 1855 (and Jospeh Fielding Smith in 1963) to say that Jesus was married?
Yes or No?