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Featured LDS LDS folk, a question for you

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by drstevej, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    DNA, the word of God, written in the gene code/language.

    How do intelligences exist without mind (spirit) / body (flesh)?

    How did the first intelligence come to be 'God'?
     
  2. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    That is not what Gen 2:7 states.

    Where is King David right now?
     
  3. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    That is a very Muslim, Islamic, thing to say. That is not how the word "begotten" is used in reference to Jesus Christ. It is used of the resurrection:

    1Pe_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Rev_1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    Act_13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    It is used of His eternal nature, which is that of His Father:

    1Jn_4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    It is also used of Jesus, as the Messiah, being born from out of the Woman of Rev. 12 (the Church in the wilderness; Acts 7:38):

    Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    Begotten is also used of the Gospel itself:

    1Co_4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

    Phm_1:10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:

    It is used of the born again:

    1Jn_5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

    1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
     
  4. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    It only becomes a chicken if it is fertilized by a rooster. An egg has no intelligence. A caterpillar changes into a chrysalis and emerges as a butterfly---but it starts out as an egg.
    God didn't create Adam and Eve as eggs---He created them as fully intelligent human beings. They went on to produce eggs and sperm which created an embryo which grew into a real live human baby. He did not create the egg of a chicken, He created the stupid chicken. He did not create a lion embryo--He created a lion and they produced an embryo and cubs. It is a process and God required no preexisting "intelligences." He is the Intelligence!
     
  5. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Intelligence or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither can it be. There wasn't a first intelligence.
     
  6. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    Are all LDS intelligences equal that are immortal intelligences? In otherwords, are all LDS intelligences that are immortal all-knowing, before becoming/being made mortal?

    It sounds like pantheism or panentheism from a certain perspective to me. Maybe this can be cleared up.

    Are 'dog' intelligences also immortal, and are they equal in intelligence to the non-dog intelligences before becoming/made 'dog' intelligences? I want to know how that works.

    How did the first 'God' come from eternal intelligence (to begin the whole thing), if no 'God' existed prior to (LDS) 'create' that 'spirit' who later grew up to be (LDS) 'God' from the eternal intelligence?

    Also, why would that which is (LDS) inherently 'immortal', take upon itself mortality, and how?

    Does LDS teach that sin existed before Lucifer among the intelligences, spirits, etc?

    Is "sin" also eternal in the past (as it also is in the future, for it was stated by LDS that satan (is eternal/immortal)) in LDS understanding?
     
  7. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    I am still interested in the LDS answer to the above question (Where is King David right now?).
     
  8. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps this can answer some of your questions

    (Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 3:18 - 28)

    18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.
    19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
    20 The Lord thy God sent his angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.
    21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.
    22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
    23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
    24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
    25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;
    26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
    27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
    28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.
     
  9. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Now you have 3 Gods and one is more intelligent then the other, and the 3rd one is the dumbest. Which is the dumbest? How does that fly with this:
    Joh_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
    Php_2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    If Jesus and God are equal---that means the Holy Spirit is the dumbest.
    You can't even see how "TOTALY" dumb this position is!!
     
  10. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Can't you see that God our Father is the most intelligent?:

    (Old Testament | Psalms 82:1)

    1 GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
    (Old Testament | Psalms 136:2)

    2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

    If I were you, I wouldn't be calling the Holy Ghost the dumbest:

    (New Testament | Matthew 12:31)

    31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
     
  11. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    I am not calling the Holy Ghost the dumbest---you all are! We claim all to be equal, you say God is the most intelligent, with Jesus Christ next and then the Holy Spirit---that makes the Holy Spirit the dumbest of the 3. That is truly dumb. And it is you that needs to be careful of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
     
  12. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    No I didn't say the Holy Ghost was the dumbest, you did. God the Father is the most intelligent, that is not to say the Holy Ghost is dumb or stupid, He is neither dumb or stupid. The Holy Ghost does many things including:
    (New Testament | John 14:26)

    26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    So who is greater:

    (New Testament | John 14:28)

    28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  13. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    Let me see if I understood the passage clearly:

    It starts out saying, "there are two":

    "... there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum [Hebrew transliteration; see Gen. 17:13], or eternal. ..."

    Which seems to be a reference to 'Jesus' and 'Satan', as per the following:

    "... 27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
    28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him. ..."

    Then it says in re-iteration, but introduces a 'third':

    "... 19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all. ..."

    Which latter part could be taken in two ways, in that either the 'third' is (LDS) "Lord thy God" after the semicolon, or the 'third' is another entirely, a third who is "more intelligent than they (two)", while the (LDS) "Lord thy God" is yet a 'fourth' more intelligent that the first two, and more intelligent than the 'third' who is more intelligent than the first two. It is probably referring to the first option, but the way it reads, could also be pleaded for the latter option.

    Either way, the Holy Ghost/Spirit is not even mentioned in the verses. It seems to be effectively referring to (LDS) 'Jesus', 'Satan' and 'Father'.

    Am I correct in understanding what is presented?

    Question:

    The passages speak of "intelligences", but the context indicates it only refers to those "intelligences" which are 'earth-local', and not to anything else, as per "the intelligences that were organized before the world was", "We will make an earth whereon these may dwell", is this correct? In other words, does this passage refer to any beings of the unfallen worlds, and to other (LDS) 'gods', or only to this present earth?

    Second question:

    The text says: "And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits", and in other places simply calls them "intelligences". Does the LDS theology make distinction between the three words definitionally, "soul", "spirit" and "intelligence", and if so, what is the distinctions?

    My original question deals with the total sum of all 'intelligences' that LDS believe in, not merely earth-local. So my original question was not directly answered by the above, for I wanted to know how the 'first' (LDS) 'God' came from merely 'intelligence' to 'godhood', if there was no previous 'God' before, and only 'intelligences'?

    Also is the (LDS) 'God' of this world, (LDS) 'Jehovah' (the Father) more or less intelligent than the other (LDS) 'gods' of other worlds, and where did the 'wife' (and/or wives) as intelligences of (LDS) come from, and are they more or less intelligent that (LDS) 'Jesus' and 'Lucifer/satan'?

    Do you understand my question in what I am asking?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  14. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Do you not believe the bible when it says that you have a spirit, and that God the Father is the Father of that spirit?
     
  15. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Romans 9
    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    God created EVERYTHING! Yet not everyone has been adopted.

    John 1
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


     
  16. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    John 3:16 is one of 6 scriptures that verifies that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. He is the only Son that was sired by God. Adam was not sired by God, he was formed from the mud of the earth, and the breath of life brought him to life. Therefore God is not my mortal father or my mortal grandfather to any degree. Adam is, but not God the Father. It is a biological thing.

    Jesus is the only begotten (biological) Son of God in the flesh. see Romans 9:8.
     
  17. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    You are right about this.
     
  18. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    Romans 9:8 is speaking of natural children (children of the flesh, such as was Ishmael), in contrast to the children which came from the promise of God through faith (children born by faith, such as was Isaac):

    Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    The same material is given in Galatians:

    Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

    Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

    The same is given in Hebrews:

    Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

    Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

    Romans 9:8 is speaking of the promise of the Saviour (Jesus) who would come through the line of Abraham/Sarah through Isaac, through the promise of God, from Gen. 3:15, "seed":

    Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    Romans 9:8 says nothing about Jesus being born from the physical union of a male and female. In fact, it says quite the opposite, that Jesus would come through Faith, not Flesh. Which is why when the Angel Gabriel appeared to Mary, here is what was stated:

    Luk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

    If 'Mary" committed any sexual act with anyone other that Joseph, it would be adultery.

    Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
    Luk 1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
    Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
    Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

    It says nothing about needing any human male counterpart. It states that Mary would conceive, thus it is as promised from Gen. 3:15, in that God would perform a miracle, from the woman, even as He had done for the Man in the beginning. Woman was taken out of man, and now He takes a man from out of the woman. Read Genesis 3:15, for it is by promise of God:

    Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
    Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
    Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
    Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
    Luk 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
    Luk 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
    Luk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

    It is through the Holy Ghost/Spirit that the child Jesus is found in Mary.

    I cited many texts in regards 'begotten', in regards the resurrection, being born again, etc.

    John 3:16 states that Jesus was the only-begotten before being sent into the world. The phrase only-begotten, ties into the phrase 'beloved' elsewhere, and also deals with the Deity nature of Jesus, as being the Son of the Father, even from eternity, as no other Being is. All the other children of God are created (angels), and/or created-adopted (those of mankind who accept the offer in Christ Jesus).

    What LDS teach, is exactly what the Islamic religion says Christianity teaches, in that somehow the Father copulated with the woman Mary and produced a child. Yet that is not what scripture, neither Christianity teaches, at all.

    The English words are translated throughout from the koine Greek [G3439] “μονογενής”, “monogenes”, as:

    Total KJB Occurrences: 16

    only, 9

    Luke 7:12, 8:42, 9:38; John 1:14,18, 3:16,18; Hebrews 11:17; 1 John 4:9

    begotten, 6

    John 1:14,18, 3:16,18; Hebrews 11:17; 1 John 4:9

    child, 1

    Luke 9:38

    The related Hebrew word [H3173] “יחיד”, “yâchı̂yd” is translated throughout as:

    Total KJB Occurrences: 13

    only, 7

    Genesis 22:2,16; Judges 11:34; Proverbs 4:3; Jeremiah 6:26; Zechariah 12:10 (2)

    darling, 2

    Psalms 22:20,35:17

    child, 1

    Judges 11:34

    desolate, 1

    Psalms 25:16

    solitary, 1

    Psalms 68:6

    son, 1

    Jeremiah 6:26

    Let us see how this word is properly used in the texts:

    John 1:14 KJB - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten [“μονογενοῦς”] of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    John 1:18 KJB - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten [“μονογενὴς”] Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    John 3:16 KJB - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten [“τὸν μονογενῆ”] Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

    John 3:18 KJB - He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten [“τοῦ μονογενοῦς”] Son of God.

    1 John 4:9 KJB - In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten [“τον μονογενη”] Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    The words “only begotten” in John 1:14, 18, 3:16,18; 1 John 4:9 KJB come from the Greek “monogenēs”, and is also seen in other passages of the Scriptures:

    Luke 7:12 KJB - Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only [“μονογενὴς”] son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.

    Luke 8:42 KJB - For he had one only [“μονογενὴς”] daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying. But as he went the people thronged him.

    Luke 9:38 KJB - And, behold, a man of the company cried out, saying, Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine only child [“μονογενής”].

    Hebrews 11:17 KJB - By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [“μονογενῆ”] son,
     
  19. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    From this we can see that the word can mean “only” one [Luke 7:2, 8:42, 9:38 KJB], but it can also mean the special child of Promise, of Faith and Love, being “the beloved” [Genesis 15:4-6, 17:4-8,15-19,21, 18:10-14, 21:1-3 KJB], as Isaac was [Hebrews 11:17-19 KJB], since Abraham already had through human effort/works, a previous son, Ishmael, through Hagar, Sarah's maid [Genesis 16:4,10,11,12,15,16, 17:20 KJB].

    Abraham would represent, in type, the Father, and the Sarah, the woman/wife, would typify the “church”, and/or the people of God, and through the at-one-ment of the two, by the Spirit, the “only begotten”, “the beloved”, even Jesus Christ, the eternal Son, God manifest in the flesh [1 Timothy 3:16 KJB], would come forth in the flesh of man-kind. Consider:

    Isaiah 9:6 KJB - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    Luke 2:11 KJB - For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

    Hebrews 2:10 KJB - For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    Revelation 12:1 KJB - And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    Revelation 12:2 KJB - And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

    Revelation 12:3 KJB - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    Revelation 12:4 KJB - And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

    Revelation 12:5 KJB - And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    Revelation 12:13 KJB - And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    Was Isaac, Abraham's only son? Not in the sense of being an only child of Abraham, for we see that Ishmael was born unto him by Hagar [the bondwoman; Genesis 21:10; Galatians 4:23,30,31 KJB] and God does acknowledge him [Genesis 22:13 KJB], yet notice what God says of the special child of promise, the child of Faith and Love, Isaac [Genesis 22:12 KJB], the child of Abraham & Sarah [the free woman; Galatians 4:23,30,31 KJB]:

    Genesis 22:2 KJB - And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [Hebrew: “יחידך”; Transliterated Hebrew “yâchı̂yd”] son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

    Side note, in the so-called LXX [*Septuagint, the work of Origen in his Hexapla, not the work of 70 or 72 Jewish scholars from the twelve tribes, and definitely not written before AD 100].

    Genesis 22:2 LXX* - “καὶ εἶπεν Λαβὲ τὸν υἱόν σου τὸν ἀγαπητόν, ὃν ἠγάπησας, τὸν Ισαακ ...”

    Re-translated to a harsh and strict semblance of English, says:

    “And now take thy son, thy son the beloved, whom ye have loved, the Isaac ...”

    Genesis 22:12 KJB - And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [Hebrew: “יחידך”; Transliterated Hebrew “yâchı̂yd”] son from me.

    Genesis 22:12 LXX* - “...καὶ οὐκ ἐφείσω τοῦ υἱοῦ σου τοῦ ἀγαπητοῦ δι᾿ ἐμέ.”

    Re-translated to a harsh and strict semblance of English, says:

    “... and ye have not withheld thy son, thy beloved, from me.”

    Genesis 22:16 KJB - And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only [Hebrew: “יחידך”; Transliterated Hebrew “yâchı̂yd”] son:

    Genesis 22:16 LXX* - “... καὶ οὐκ ἐφείσω τοῦ υἱοῦ σου τοῦ ἀγαπητοῦ δι᾿ ἐμέ.”

    Re-translated to a harsh and strict semblance of English, says:

    “... and ye have not withheld thy son, thy beloved, from me.”

    We can see that Isaac was “thy beloved” [“τοῦ ἀγαπητοῦ”] son of Abraham, even as Christ Jesus is the “my beloved” [“ο αγαπητος”] of the Father, and that this is intimately connected with the phrase “the only begotten” [“τον μονογενη”]:

    Matthew 3:17 KJB - And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved [“μου ὁ ἀγαπητός”] Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Matthew 17:5 KJB - While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved [“μου ὁ ἀγαπητός”] Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

    Mark 1:11 KJB - And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved [“μου ὁ ἀγαπητός”] Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Mark 9:7 KJB - And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved [“μου ὁ ἀγαπητός·”] Son: hear him.

    Luke 3:22 KJB - And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved [“μου ὁ ἀγαπητός”] Son; in thee I am well pleased.

    Luke 9:35 KJB - And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved [“μου ὁ ἀγαπητός·”] Son: hear him.

    Luke 20:13 KJB - Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved [“μου τὸν ἀγαπητόν·”] son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

    2 Peter 1:17 KJB - For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved [“μου ὁ ἀγαπητός”] Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Further examples of the word “μονογενῆ” may also be witnessed in the so-called LXX*, Greek:

    Psalms 22:20 KJB - Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling [Hebrew: “יחידך”; Transliterated Hebrew “yâchı̂yd”; Greek LXX* Psalms 21:21: “τὴν μονογενῆ μου”] from the power of the dog.

    [This passage [Psalms 22:20 KJB] is quoted in the context of Psalms 22:1-30 KJB, [“[[To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.]] My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?” [Psalms 22:1 KJB], which is a reference to Jesus in Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34 KJB]

    Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling [Hebrew: “יחידתי”; Transliterated: “yâchı̂yd”; Greek LXX* Psalms 34:17: “τὴν μονογενῆ μου”] from the lions. Psalms 35:17 KJB

    [This passage [Psalms 35:17 KJB] also speaks of Christ Jesus and is similar to that of Psalms 22:20 KJB.]

    Turn thee unto me, and have mercy upon me; for I am desolate [Hebrew: “יחיד”; Transliterated: “yâchı̂yd”; Greek LXX* Psalms 24:16: “με ὅτι μονογενὴς ”; in other words, 'all alone', or 'the only one left'] and afflicted. Psalms 25:16

    [This passage [Psalms 25:16 KJB], we can compare to Isaiah 63:3, “I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.”]

    In Greek LXX* Judges 11:34, we further see that “μονογενης” even carries a definition of 'singularity', 'one and only':

    And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only [Hebrew: “יחידך”; Transliterated Hebrew “yâchı̂yd”; Greek LXX*: “μονογενης”] child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. Judges 11:34

    In Zechariah 12:10 KJB, we see the 2nd Advent of Jesus Christ foretold, and the word “only” and has a connection the word “firstborn” [Please see the study upon the “firstborn” texts]:

    And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only [Hebrew: “יחידך”; Transliterated Hebrew “yâchı̂yd”] son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zechariah 12:10
     
  20. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    The related koine Greek word is “γεγεννηκα” in Acts 13:33 and Hebrews 1:5, 5:5 is co-related to the Hebrew “yâlad” in Psalms 2:7:

    Psalms 2:7 KJB - I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten [Hebrew: “ילדתיך׃”; Greek LXX*: “γεγεννηκα”] thee.

    Acts 13:33 KJB - God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten [“γεγέννηκά”] thee.

    Acts 13:34 KJB - And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    Acts 13:35 KJB - Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Acts 13:36 KJB - For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

    Acts 13:37 KJB - But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

    Acts 13:38 KJB - Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

    Acts 13:39 KJB - And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

    Hebrews 1:3 KJB - Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    Hebrews 1:4 KJB - Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

    Hebrews 1:5 KJB - For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten [“γεγεννηκα”] thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    Hebrews 1:6 KJB - And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten [“πρωτοτοκον”] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    Hebrews 5:5 KJB - So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten [“γεγεννηκα”] thee.

    Hebrews 5:9 KJB - And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    Hebrews 5:10 KJB - Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

    Each of these passages tells us that “begotten” deals with Christ Jesus as He took upon Himself the flesh of men, at the virgin birth, “... he bringeth in the firstbegotten [“πρωτοτοκον”] into the world ...”, and also with the period of the sacrifice, the resurrection, and deals with the “purging of sins”, “the forgiveness of sins”, being “justified from all things” and the ascension of Christ Jesus into the Heavenly Holy Place to begin His ministration as our Great High Priest and as the King of the Throne of Grace [Hebrews 4:16 KJB], after the order of the King-priest Melchizedek.

    Romans 1:3 KJB - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    Romans 1:4 KJB - And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    Further in the Old Testament passages of 2 Samuel 7:11-14 and 1 Chronicles 22:9-13, where in a prophecy about King Solomon [Peace], also points to Christ Jesus, the True Ruler of Peace [Isaiah 9:6 KJB]:

    2 Samuel 7:11 KJB - And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.

    2 Samuel 7:12 KJB - And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

    2 Samuel 7:13 KJB - He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

    2 Samuel 7:14 KJB - I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

    1 Chronicles 22:9 KJB - Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.

    1 Chronicles 22:10 KJB - He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.

    1 Chronicles 22:11 KJB - Now, my son, the LORD be with thee; and prosper thou, and build the house of the LORD thy God, as he hath said of thee.

    1 Chronicles 22:12 KJB - Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest keep the law of the LORD thy God.

    1 Chronicles 22:13 KJB - Then shalt thou prosper, if thou takest heed to fulfil the statutes and judgments which the LORD charged Moses with concerning Israel: be strong, and of good courage; dread not, nor be dismayed.

    Therefore, we can conclude that “only begotten” in reference to Christ Jesus, means “my beloved”, and means the original, by very nature of being eternal God [Philippians 2:6 KJB], un-adopted heir of the promise of peace [unlike us, though we are now “many sons” [Hebrews 2:10 KJB] through Christ Jesus, having received the “Spirit of adoption” [Romans 8:15 KJB] “that we might receive the adoption of sons” [Galatians 5:4 KJB], the “adoption of children by Jesus Christ” [Ephesians 1:5 KJB]], the very “appointed heir” [Hebrews 1:2 KJB], being the “seed, which is Christ” [Galatians 3:16 KJB], “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” [Hebrews 1:3 KJB]. So, while The LORD JEHOVAH, the Son is eternal and without beginning in His Divinity/Deity, His humanity did have beginning:

    John 3:6 KJB - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Psalms 40:6 KJB - Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

    Galatians 4:4 KJB - But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    Side note, the phrase “... made under the law,” is referring to the law of heredity, the inherited genes, the genetic law of flesh, as Jesus' ancestry is shown in Matthew 1:1-18; Luke 3:23-38; Romans 1:3 KJB, etc:

    Romans 1:3 KJB - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    Hebrews 10:5 KJB - Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    The texts say nothing about the Father taking upon Himself human flesh (a denial of the Everlasting Gospel itself), neither siring a child with Mary through physical relationship.

    Mono-genes, means 'only one of the nature'. Jesus is the only Being that shares the Nature of the Father, even from eternity (the nature of the Holy Ghost is a mystery and scripture does not explain it).
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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