LDS Beliefs...true or false

[fatboys]

fatboys, you said:

FB: When a prophet is called after the death of one, it is done as it was anciently. The quorum of the Twelve unanimously choose another. After they choose, it goes through the process of sustaining new doctrine. We all vote to sustain him as prophet seer and revelator. This is not a vote as in political elections, but to accept or reject him as our prophet. If we accept him, and sustain him then we covenant with God to follow the prophet as he follows God. Just like they did anciently.

I then asked you if you could show me where in the Bible it teaches that this is how it was done "anciently". Can you tell me where exactly in the Books of Acts it says this? And can you show me anywhere else, such as the OT, which was full of prophets, where it speaks of this being the way it was done (especially considering there was often more than one prophet at a time)? After you show me where this is spoken of exactly, I can read it for myself, in context and then tell you if "this is how "my" church does it".

Frankie

FB: Acts 1: 20-26 Proverbs 16:33 explains how the Lords hand is in this act of choosing. Since they did not have satelite or TV each congregation or body of the church had to accept these things as they went to the different places. Of course as many of the apostles were killed, they did not have time to get to gether as a quorum and so the apostlic power was removed. By the way look up lots in your bible there are many references to it.

 

[Frankie]

FB: Acts 1: 20-26 Proverbs 16:33 explains how the Lords hand is in this act of choosing. Since they did not have satelite or TV each congregation or body of the church had to accept these things as they went to the different places. Of course as many of the apostles were killed, they did not have time to get to gether as a quorum and so the apostlic power was removed. By the way look up lots in your bible there are many references to it.

OK, the first thing I noticed in reading the Acts passage in context is that they were choosing a person for the specific purpose of testifying that they had known and seen Jesus in person and that He was was real. Acts 1

15In those days Peter stood up among the believers[1] (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus-- 17he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."
18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
" 'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,'[2] and,
" 'May another take his place of leadership.'[3] 21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."
23So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Unless someone believes that a person who was with Jesus 2000 years ago, could live this long and still be a witness such as described above, I don't know how this passage applies. I am going to read more on this.

Frankie

 

[fatboys]

OK, the first thing I noticed in reading the Acts passage in context is that they were choosing a person for the specific purpose of testifying that they had known and seen Jesus in person and that He was was real. Acts 1

15In those days Peter stood up among the believers[1] (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus-- 17he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."
18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
" 'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,'[2] and,
" 'May another take his place of leadership.'[3] 21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."
23So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Unless someone believes that a person who was with Jesus 2000 years ago, could live this long and still be a witness such as described above, I don't know how this passage applies. I am going to read more on this.

Frankie

FB: I know you hate questions but did Paul witness Christ?

 

[Frankie]

FB: I know you hate questions but did Paul witness Christ?

Perfect example. Paul was called of God without being chosen by man as a prophet or "apostle". Paul was in Christ and had the Holy Spirit from Jesus Himself, not from man or "apostolic voting in". As far as I know, Paul was convicted of the Holy Spirit and heard the voice of Jesus but I do not think Paul saw Jesus face to face. If I am wrong,, someone can correct me.

Frankie

 

[Frankie]

FB: I know you hate questions but did Paul witness Christ?

I don't hate questions, nor have I ever stated that I hate questions. However, when one answers a question with another question all the time, it is irritating. fatboys, you are constantly telling us christians on this forum what we do and don't think and what we do and don't like. I know that you have been made aware of this but you just continue to do it.

Frankie

 

[fatboys]

I don't hate questions, nor have I ever stated that I hate questions. However, when one answers a question with another question all the time, it is irritating. fatboys, you are constantly telling us christians on this forum what we do and don't think and what we do and don't like. I know that you have been made aware of this but you just continue to do it.

Frankie

FB: Let me rephrase it. I know you are irritated with my answering a question with another question.

 

[fatboys]

Perfect example. Paul was called of God without being chosen by man as a prophet or "apostle". Paul was in Christ and had the Holy Spirit from Jesus Himself, not from man or "apostolic voting in". As far as I know, Paul was convicted of the Holy Spirit and heard the voice of Jesus but I do not think Paul saw Jesus face to face. If I am wrong,, someone can correct me.

Frankie

FB: Christ called him and then Peter had to have it confirmed to him that this was so. Also today, those who are called to be apostles and prophets have to be as Paul called and become a witness as Paul was. As for Paul speaking face to face, the bible has two different stories. One says that he saw him the other the voice.

 

[Frankie]

FB: Christ called him and then Peter had to have it confirmed to him that this was so. Also today, those who are called to be apostles and prophets have to be as Paul called and become a witness as Paul was. As for Paul speaking face to face, the bible has two different stories. One says that he saw him the other the voice.

fatboys, this is what you orginally said:

FB: When a prophet is called after the death of one, it is done as it was anciently. The quorum of the Twelve unanimously choose another. After they choose, it goes through the process of sustaining new doctrine. We all vote to sustain him as prophet seer and revelator. This is not a vote as in political elections, but to accept or reject him as our prophet. If we accept him, and sustain him then we covenant with God to follow the prophet as he follows God. Just like they did anciently.


How is what you stated in the green quote above, the same thing as what you stated in the red quote quote? Also, surely, if it was done in ancient times like it is done in the lds church, surely you can direct me to many examples of this in the OT, which is full of ancient prophets.

Thanks,
Frankie

 

[fatboys]

fatboys, this is what you orginally said:

FB: When a prophet is called after the death of one, it is done as it was anciently. The quorum of the Twelve unanimously choose another. After they choose, it goes through the process of sustaining new doctrine. We all vote to sustain him as prophet seer and revelator. This is not a vote as in political elections, but to accept or reject him as our prophet. If we accept him, and sustain him then we covenant with God to follow the prophet as he follows God. Just like they did anciently.


How is what you stated in the green quote above, the same thing as what you stated in the red quote quote? Also, surely, if it was done in ancient times like it is done in the lds church, surely you can direct me to many examples of this in the OT, which is full of ancient prophets.

Thanks,
Frankie

FB: How many times did the ancient apostles get to gether as a complete quorum and pick successors to vacancies? How many were apostles that we do not know? Do you think there were any? Why would they have to fill the one made by Judas?

 

[Frankie]

FB: How many times did the ancient apostles get to gether as a complete quorum and pick successors to vacancies? How many were apostles that we do not know? Do you think there were any? Why would they have to fill the one made by Judas?

fatboys, can you answer the question?

 

[fatboys]

fatboys, can you answer the question?

FB: ooooo, that just really irritates me when you answer a question with another question. Just answer the question.

Well we know of at least two times right off hand that they got to gether to choose. Mattias and Paul.

 

[skylark1]

Fatboys,

Do you know of any examples from the Old Testament of a quorum of twelve meeting and voting to choose a prophet to succeed a vancancy left by a prophet who had died?

Thanks.

 

[fatboys]

Fatboys,

Do you know of any examples from the Old Testament of a quorum of twelve meeting and voting to choose a prophet to succeed a vancancy left by a prophet who had died?

Thanks.

FB: No I don't. Even though they had set up organizations in many cities, which bishops and others were called to preside over them after they went to the next, these callings were not apostalic and were callings of a lesser position. I don't think after Peter was killed that anyone was given the authority to lead the church. Certainly they did not have the authority to call other apostles after other apostles were killed off.

 

[skylark1]

FB,

I was asking about examples from the Old Testament. Your reply is not related to that time period.

 

[emerald Dragon]

There seems to be a slight lack of communication here. In the Church today, man does not choose the prophet. God does. The Quorum of the Twelve gets together in the temple to pray about who should be the next prophet. They do so until they recieve revelation saying who it is. They will all recieve the same revelation, naturally, and it is gernerally, but not always, the senior apostle. Once it was not the senior apostle, but it is always a member of those 13 people. (I think once there were more than 13, but I don't know) God provides for them to be in the appropriate positition at the appropriat time. God calls all people in the Church, from the prophet down to the local brach Primary teacher. Sometimes, however, man's mind is clouded, and they don't listen properly, and the right person isn't given the calling. This is rare, but I am sure it occurs.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[Doc T]

FB,

I was asking about examples from the Old Testament. Your reply is not related to that time period.

Has anyone claimed that there were apostles in the Old Testament? Christ set up a different system when he came. Am I missing something here?

Doc

~

 

[skylark1]

Has anyone claimed that there were apostles in the Old Testament? Christ set up a different system when he came. Am I missing something here?

Earlier in this thread Fatboys wrote:

When a prophet is called after the death of one, it is done as it was anciently. The quorum of the Twelve unanimously choose another. After they choose, it goes through the process of sustaining new doctrine. We all vote to sustain him as prophet seer and revelator. This is not a vote as in political elections, but to accept or reject him as our prophet. If we accept him, and sustain him then we covenant with God to follow the prophet as he follows God. Just like they did anciently.

​

To me, the statement that this was done anciently implied that it was done in OT times.

 

[fatboys]

Earlier in this thread Fatboys wrote:

When a prophet is called after the death of one, it is done as it was anciently. The quorum of the Twelve unanimously choose another. After they choose, it goes through the process of sustaining new doctrine. We all vote to sustain him as prophet seer and revelator. This is not a vote as in political elections, but to accept or reject him as our prophet. If we accept him, and sustain him then we covenant with God to follow the prophet as he follows God. Just like they did anciently.

​

To me, the statement that this was done anciently implied that it was done in OT times.

FB: I think you misunderstood. Although in the New Testament apostles are also considered prophets, when I was speaking anciently as in new testament times.

 

[Frankie]

FB: Christ called him and then Peter had to have it confirmed to him that this was so. Also today, those who are called to be apostles and prophets have to be as Paul called and become a witness as Paul was. As for Paul speaking face to face, the bible has two different stories. One says that he saw him the other the voice.

Peter has to have it confirmed to him? Are you saying that if Peter would not have accepted Paul as a disciple of Christ, then Paul being a disciple would not have been legitimate because Peter didn't ok it?

Frankie

 

[Frankie]

FB: No, you are wrong. I know that I will be with my wife in the Celestial kingdom. I don't have to wait to know. Those who say they do not know are showing their humility and humbleness of how unworthy we really are. And that only through Christ can we become worthy.

fatboys, in reading back through this thread, I noticed this response you made to me quite awhile back and I now have a question about this. Why is it that lds say they can not know for sure if they will make it to heaven (life forever with God) but they can know right now that they will be sealed to their spouse forever?

Frankie