LDS Beliefs...true or false

[christopher123]

I keep trying to pull up that fairs article and everytime I do, it freezes up my computer.

That is the best line I have seen about "FAIR" in a long time. It gave me a really good chuckle.


Chris <><

 

[Frankie]

OK, I was finally able to pull up the FAIRS article, it was in adobe so I don't know if somehow that created the problem or not, I don't know why it would because I have never had problems with pulling up articles in adobe before but anyway....

I did read the article from FAIRS, written by Matthew B. Brown. I noticed that there were quite a few pictures of supposed inverted pentagrams. 2 were one's that Constatine supposedly wore on necklaces? I don't know how Constantine wearing them, makes them Christian symbols, also, did he wear this inverted pentagram the whole time he was Christian or did he wear it before becoming Christian and later as a Christian until at some point he stopped wearing it because it was not a christian symbol? I just don't know.

As far as the one "picture" (actually a hand drawn image)that is a inverted pentegram that is supposedly the sign of Jeruselem from 300-150 B.C, Christ had not even come yet, I don't see how that makes it a Christian symbol. I noticed that the man who wrote this article on FAIRS also shows a picture of the us Flag with regular stars on it, they are not even inverted so I don't know what He was using that photo to prove. He also shows a US medal of valor to prove their is nothing wrong with an inverted pentegram, I don't know how using a medal given out by a govenment proves that a pentagram is of God and is a Christian symbol. There is a picture of the virgin mary with Jesus that supposedly has many pentagrams behind it, I can't see one in the picture. Then there is a black and white photo of a cathedral in france that supposely has a HUGE inverted pentagram in the middle of it. I have looked at that one over and over and don't see a plain star, let alone a pentagram. Then there is another hand drawn image that looks like a pentagram was just drawn in the middle of it with no rhyme or reason, it doesn't even look like it fits the rest of the drawing and there is no link to view were they got the drawing from so that one I don't even take as valid. It says it is from the Villard De Honnocourt portfolio, which I did a google search on and cant find this picture anywhere but lds sources. Then there is a picture of an EO painting that has Jesus standing in front of a supposed inverted pentagram. If that is a star, it is the oddest star I have seen. Since I don't really know much about EO beliefs on this, this one I will take to the EO section of the forum here and ask them about.

Frankie

 

[Doc T]

I did read the article from FAIRS, written by Matthew B. Brown. I noticed that there were quite a few pictures of supposed inverted pentagrams. 2 were one's that Constatine supposedly wore on necklaces? I don't know how Constantine wearing them, makes them Christian symbols, also, did he wear this inverted pentagram the whole time he was Christian or did he wear it before becoming Christian and later as a Christian until at some point he stopped wearing it because it was not a christian symbol? I just don't know.

As far as the one "picture" (actually a hand drawn image)that is a inverted pentegram that is supposedly the sign of Jeruselem from 300-150 B.C, Christ had not even come yet, I don't see how that makes it a Christian symbol. I noticed that the man who wrote this article on FAIRS also shows a picture of the us Flag with regular stars on it, they are not even inverted so I don't know what He was using that photo to prove. He also shows a US medal of valor to prove their is nothing wrong with an inverted pentegram, I don't know how using a medal given out by a govenment proves that a pentagram is of God and is a Christian symbol. There is a picture of the virgin mary with Jesus that supposedly has many pentagrams behind it, I can't see one in the picture. Then there is a black and white photo of a cathedral in france that supposely has a HUGE inverted pentagram in the middle of it. I have looked at that one over and over and don't see a plain star, let alone a pentagram. Then there is another hand drawn image that looks like a pentagram was just drawn in the middle of it with no rhyme or reason, it doesn't even look like it fits the rest of the drawing and there is no link to view were they got the drawing from so that one I don't even take as valid. It says it is from the Villard De Honnocourt portfolio, which I did a google search on and cant find this picture anywhere but lds sources. Then there is a picture of an EO painting that has Jesus standing in front of a supposed inverted pentagram. If that is a star, it is the oddest star I have seen. Since I don't really know much about EO beliefs on this, this one I will take to the EO section of the forum here and ask them about.

Frankie

Not to be offensive, but did you really read the article or did you just glance through it? For example you stated the article "shows a picture of the us Flag with regular stars on it, they are not even inverted so I don't know what He was using that photo to prove." The article states,

Of particular interest is the “Great Star” flag that flew from 1837 to 1845. s flag displayed a large upright star in the center of the blue field with numerous smaller stars around it that were arranged so as to create one enormous inverted star.

My I respectifully recommend you read the article again and perhaps more slowly. Maybe you were just a little flustered with the difficulty in getting it to come up.

Doc

~

 

[Frankie]

Not to be offensive, but did you really read the article or did you just glance through it? For example you stated the article "shows a picture of the us Flag with regular stars on it, they are not even inverted so I don't know what He was using that photo to prove." The article states,



My I respectifully recommend you read the article again and perhaps more slowly. Maybe you were just a little flustered with the difficulty in getting it to come up.

Doc

~

I did read through it quite quickly, yes and did pay more attention to the photo's. However, I do not see one big inverted pentegram in in the flag and if there is one (yes, I will try to look at it from a different angle, whatever that means...hehe), how does an inverted pentegram in the American Flag show that the pnetegram is of God?

 

[christopher123]

Just my opinion, but I have always felt that backbiting, gossip, contention, and stuff like that were more "satanic" or evil than pentagrams or goats heads.

Again, just my opinion.


Chris <><





PS: can anyone direct me to what the blessings/reputation thingies are about here? Thanks, - I started playing with mine and kind of gave them all to Doc!

 

[Frankie]

That is the best line I have seen about "FAIR" in a long time. It gave me a really good chuckle.


Chris <><

Chris, are you a fan of the "FAIRLDS" site?

Frankie

 

[christopher123]

Chris, are you a fan of the "FAIRLDS" site?

Frankie

Hardly. I couldn't stomach him/them when I WAS a good little mormon!

I think they have or had a message board too.

 

[Frankie]

Hardly. I couldn't stomach him/them when I WAS a good little mormon!

I think they have or had a message board too.

OK, thanks for answering my question

 

[Doc T]

I did read through it quite quickly, yes and did pay more attention to the photo's. However, I do not see one big inverted pentegram in in the flag and if there is one (yes, I will try to look at it from a different angle, whatever that means...hehe), how does an inverted pentegram in the American Flag show that the pnetegram is of God?

Just step back and look at the big picture. Look at the flag and draw a line along the outside of the stars. What shape do you get? In inverted star or pentegram. As Matthew Brown stated:

It should be noted that during the lifetimes of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, the inverted five-pointed star was utilized in American society without any association with the occult or with Satan.

So, the pentegram in the American flag does not show that the pentegram is from God, but it shows that it is not necessarily Satanic either.

Doc

~

 

[Doc T]

Just my opinion, but I have always felt that backbiting, gossip, contention, and stuff like that were more "satanic" or evil than pentagrams or goats heads.

Again, just my opinion.

Chris <><

Amen!

PS: can anyone direct me to what the blessings/reputation thingies are about here? Thanks, - I started playing with mine and kind of gave them all to Doc!

Gee thanks!!

Doc

~

 

[Frankie]

Just step back and look at the big picture. Look at the flag and draw a line along the outside of the stars. What shape do you get? In inverted star or pentegram. As Matthew Brown stated:



So, the pentegram in the American flag does not show that the pentegram is from God, but it shows that it is not necessarily Satanic either.

Doc

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Hi Doc. If something is not of God, who do you believe it is of?

Thanks,
Frankie

 

[Frankie]

Amen!



Gee thanks!!

Doc

~

LOLOLO!!!!!!!! I don't think I have ever give Doc any reps. I think that because he has been so curteous with me compared to some others on this board, I will go give him some reps right now....here they come Doc!

 

[Frankie]

never mind, doc doesn't have his reps turned on

 

[carolbob]

So am I to understand that to get into heaven, one must be baptisized? Also, to get into the highest level of heaven, one must be married? What about the thief on the cross that died with Jesus? Jesus told the thief he would be in paradise with Him tonight. What about babies and children that don't get married? I'm glad I serve a God that doesn't prejudice against single people! God is just and fair. He is no respecter of persons. He looks at your heart. Marital status has no bearing on salvation.

 

[Doc T]

Hi Doc. If something is not of God, who do you believe it is of?

Thanks,
Frankie

Well, I don't see it as an either or situation. If you study a bit about iconography you will see that many of the symbols that the Christians have adopted, (i.e. the cross) were all pretty much pagan symbols. That, to me, does not matter. It is what the symbol represents to you that gives it its significance.

Hope that helps.

Doc

~

 

[Doc T]

LOLOLO!!!!!!!! I don't think I have ever give Doc any reps. I think that because he has been so curteous with me compared to some others on this board, I will go give him some reps right now....here they come Doc!

Hey, now how do you turn on your reps. I just know about the blessings.

You will find, for the most part that if you treat me with respect and I don't get the impression that you just have an agenda, that I try to treat you respectfully. Of course it does help that you are a woman. (Dang, I've just spent too much time down here in the south. . . it's starting to rub off!!)

Doc

~

 

[Doc T]

So am I to understand that to get into heaven, one must be baptisized? Also, to get into the highest level of heaven, one must be married? What about the thief on the cross that died with Jesus? Jesus told the thief he would be in paradise with Him tonight. What about babies and children that don't get married? I'm glad I serve a God that doesn't prejudice against single people! God is just and fair. He is no respecter of persons. He looks at your heart. Marital status has no bearing on salvation.

Whoa, there carolbob. Too many assumptions.

1. The theif on the cross did not go to heaven, because 3 days later Christ told Mary to "touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father. . ." (John 20:17) so Christ had not yet been to heaven, yet he told the thief, "today, shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43)

2. LDS teachings say that everyone will get a chance to be married just like we believe that everyone will get a chance to hear the gospel of Christ. So we do not believe that God is prejudice against single people. God is just and fair. He is no respector of persons. He does look at your heart. "For neither is the man without the woman. . . in the Lord" (1 Cor 11:11) "eing heirs together of the grace of life. . ."(1 Pet 3:7)

Doc

~

 

[carolbob]

Whoa, there carolbob. Too many assumptions.

1. The theif on the cross did not go to heaven, because 3 days later Christ told Mary to "touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father. . ." (John 20:17) so Christ had not yet been to heaven, yet he told the thief, "today, shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43)

2. LDS teachings say that everyone will get a chance to be married just like we believe that everyone will get a chance to hear the gospel of Christ. So we do not believe that God is prejudice against single people. God is just and fair. He is no respector of persons. He does look at your heart. "For neither is the man without the woman. . . in the Lord" (1 Cor 11:11) "eing heirs together of the grace of life. . ."(1 Pet 3:7)

Doc

~

How will everyone get a chance to be married?

 

[Frankie]

OK, I asked the folks on the EO part of this forum about the supposed "inverted pentegram" in the EO picture of the transfiguration and was told it is not an inverted star but was actually "the uncreated light" and also I was told that it would be good for me to point out that the author of the article on Fairlds failed to piont out the 3 trinitarian rays eminating between Christ's feet. I was also told over on EO that while some icons (EO) may have 5 pointed geometric figures, the number of points or sides is not consistan and therefore has no theological significance. It appears that the lds author who used the EO picture as a proof that early Christianity used the pentagram, actually did so incorrectly.

Here is the link if you want to read what was written. I don't think I am breaking forum rules by posting this link, if I am, someone pleae tell me and I will remove the link. http://christianforums.com/t697469

Frankie

 

[Frankie]

Hey, now how do you turn on your reps. I just know about the blessings.

You will find, for the most part that if you treat me with respect and I don't get the impression that you just have an agenda, that I try to treat you respectfully. Of course it does help that you are a woman. (Dang, I've just spent too much time down here in the south. . . it's starting to rub off!!)

Doc

~

well shoot, I guess I am out of the "respect" club... heeh....I do have an agenda. My agenda is to ask questions, have good discussion and discuss and stand firm in things from a Biblical point of view. Will you still be nice to me? lolol

Ok Doc, go into your "User CP", click on either "options" or "personal profile" and go down the list, you will find a spot that says "allow others to see my reputation". click to allow it and save at the bottem of the page.