LCMS evangelical?

Julian of Norwich · Feb 16, 2019

I am starting to understand what Lutherans mean by "evangelical" and what they don't mean.

Jerry Falwell Hanson · Feb 28, 2019

Nova Scotian Boy said:
No, Lutherans are evangelical in the historic sense, but not the American sense.We are not part of American Evangelicalism. Which we reject.[/QUOTE
I agree. I am an Evangelical Lutheran from the United States, but I reject what American Evangelicalism has become. It hurts to see our message sacrificed in the name of political power. I think most Evangelicals hold their beliefs rooted in fear, and not in self-sacrifice.

Karen Hauser · Feb 28, 2019

Jerry,
I am sorry you feel as though our message has been weakened through the increased support for loons like DT. I can't agree more, but it is always good to remain positive and uphold your faith for the sake of the people who need you. For the sake of the community you represent, your children, wife, and parents, Do not do not DO NOT lose faith. God created you for a reason, and I feel every child of his must remain faithful and outspoken in their respective communities.

Newtheran · Jun 14, 2019

Radagast said:
he LCMS is now the same as the ELCA

It's absolutely not. If those two merged, It would take me about 30 seconds to bail.

Concord1968 · Jun 14, 2019

Newtheran said:
It's absolutely not. If those two merged, It would take me about 30 seconds to bail.

Yeah, no kidding. WELS here I come lol

Newtheran · Jun 14, 2019

Yeah. Given current trends, I find it much more likely that the ELCA will merge with the North American UMC, the UCC, and the Episcopalians to form a single left leaning denomination. Whatever issues they have regarding polity can probably be worked out given their agreement on social issues.

TKA_TN · Jun 18, 2019

Newtheran said:
Yeah. Given current trends, I find it much more likely that the ELCA will merge with the North American UMC, the UCC, and the Episcopalians to form a single left leaning denomination. Whatever issues they have regarding polity can probably be worked out given their agreement on social issues.

Wish they would, honestly. I get some funny looks sometimes when I say I'm a Lutheran. I then have to explain that there's a Conservative branch that keeps with the Confessions, and a Liberal branch that doesn't and that I belong to the former.

Newtheran · Jun 21, 2019

YeshuaFan said:
The Lutheran view on the sacraments is probably the one area most confusing to Baptists...

Working through the concept of sacraments vs ordinances was the biggest doctrinal difference I came up against when I started moving in this direction. The conclusion I came to was that the Orthodox probably have the most rational view of it with infant baptism with immediate chrismation and full participation in the life of the church.

Whether you adopt the baptist view of delaying baptism plus an age of accountability or infant baptism plus a confirmation that plus portion ends up adding some sort of philosophical construct to the equation to make it rational. But infant baptism plus confirmation is a much more reasonable approach than "age of accountability".

kdm1984 · Jun 21, 2019

TKA_TN said:
Wish they would, honestly. I get some funny looks sometimes when I say I'm a Lutheran. I then have to explain that there's a Conservative branch that keeps with the Confessions, and a Liberal branch that doesn't and that I belong to the former.

I'm surprised at how many people are oblivious to that. Just saw a thread here today where someone said 'Lutherans' ordain women. Um, the ELCA might, but LCMS and WELS sure don't.

tampasteve · Jun 21, 2019

kdm1984 said:
I'm surprised at how many people are oblivious to that. Just saw a thread here today where someone said 'Lutherans' ordain women. Um, the ELCA might, but LCMS and WELS sure don't.

Sure, buts it's understandable given that most Lutheran churches do. The conservative confessional synod's don't, but they are pretty outnumbered by the ELCA in the USA and the Lutheran churches in Europe that do ordain women.

That said, the conservative synods should try and get their message out better, which is the topic of another active thread here.

Newtheran · Jun 22, 2019

kdm1984 said:
I'm surprised at how many people are oblivious to that. Just saw a thread here today where someone said 'Lutherans' ordain women. Um, the ELCA might, but LCMS and WELS sure don't.

Statement discusses ELCA decision to ordain homosexuals

It's gone far beyond that, the ELCA is ordaining people who are LGBTPQ.

hedrick · Jun 22, 2019

My aunt and uncle were Methodist missionaries in Bolivia. At that time (which was decades ago) they said that in Latin America evangelical was used to mean Protestant. As Methodists they were considered evangelical.

Wikipedia (Evangelicalism - Wikipedia) gives a variety of historical influences. But I would say that the modern use really dates to around 1950, when what was sometimes called neo-evangelicalism developed out of the fundamentalist movement, as a group that was more interested in engaging the culture. Conservative parts of various mainline traditions now call themselves evangelical. And there's some merit to that, because they share a lot of theology with the original neo-evangelicals.

The word "evangelical" in the ELCA's name is the older usage.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 23, 2019

Radagast said:
Well, among Evangelical churches, LCMS etc. would probably be on the extreme liturgical end of the spectrum, with Baptists on the extreme non-liturgical end, and conservative Presbyterians in the middle somewhere.

Such only scratches the surface. What makes the LCMS evangelical is Bible based theology without the application of various critical standards (mostly historical (that was then, this is now), the application of human Logic; and using personal experience to filter and interpret the Bible). Scripture interprets scripture, and scripture provides context to scripture. While we adhere to historic tradition, those practices and even our Lutheran Confessions remain subject to the authority of Scripture.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 23, 2019

YeshuaFan said:
I was not meaning to start anything here, can they answer at least which church signed the statement saying Rome and Lutherans are now in agreement again?

Well, it is rhetoric; they are not. The body of Lutherans that signed that agreement with the RCC still hold it up, but their theology has regressed further to secular humanism where not even their rhetorical agreement applies any longer.

In reality, it was no more than a "photo opp".

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 23, 2019

Newtheran said:
It's absolutely not. If those two merged, It would take me about 30 seconds to bail.

Me too!

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 23, 2019

Radagast said:
I don't think Pew Forum are wrong -- they are the experts. The word "Evangelical" today means "not theologically liberal," and covers all the non-liberal Protestant denominations.

If you're telling me that the LCMS is now the same as the ELCA, that is disappointing, and I will stay away from LCMS churches in future.

You could write and tell Pew Forum that the LCMS now identifies itself with the ELCA. You could even merge.

Let it mean to them what they want it to mean. That is no different than applying historic criticism to Scripture itself. Minimalism at it's best... create your own reality.

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