LCMS evangelical?

[YeshuaFan]

Well, among Evangelical churches, LCMS etc. would probably be on the extreme liturgical end of the spectrum, with Baptists on the extreme non-liturgical end, and conservative Presbyterians in the middle somewhere.

The Lutheran view on the sacraments is probably the one area most confusing to Baptists...

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes, I am LCMS. Currently a seminarian. The Pew Forum is wrong. Like most people, they get very confused by Lutherans.

From the Reformation until the late 1700s, early 1800s the terms Evangelical was a synonym for Lutheran. To call someone a Lutheran was to call them an evangelical, to call someone an evangelical was to call them a Lutheran. A Presbyterian, Baptist would have been scandalized by being called an evangelical because that means your Lutheran.

All this changed with the 1st Great Awakening. The revivalistic movement which came from the Awakening called themselves Evangelicals. A movement that confessional Lutherans have always denounced as false and in error, and in stark contrast to Lutheranism.

However over time, this second definition of evangelical became dominate. To the point, the first is barely remembered. In Germany Evangelical is still synonymous with Lutheran. Most of the state churches don't even have Lutheran in their name they are just referred to as the Evangelical Church. When revival style Evangelicalism came to Germany they actually created a new word for them to differentiate them from Lutheranism.

This is why many Lutheran churches in North America still have the word Evangelical in their name. It refers not to the Evangelicals we think of today but the original evangelicals.

You would tend to see that term as more akin to those who reformed Roman Catholic theology?

 

[Nova Scotian Boy]

You would tend to see that term as more akin to those who reformed Roman Catholic theology?

Not sure if I follow your question.

 

[Nova Scotian Boy]

The Lutheran view on the sacraments is probably the one area most confusing to Baptists...

It comes down to the question of what is baptism. Many baptists with to focus on mode and recipient. The thing is we answer the question of what is baptism in different ways.

 

[YeshuaFan]

It comes down to the question of what is baptism. Many baptists with to focus on mode and recipient. The thing is we answer the question of what is baptism in different ways.

We desire to stay away from Baptismal regeneration mainly!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Not sure if I follow your question.

Do you see an Evangelical in the first meaning as referring to those who reformed Catholic theology and became known as Lutherans?

 

[Nova Scotian Boy]

We desire to stay away from Baptismal regeneration mainly!

Then your desire is to stay away from the scriptures.

 

[Nova Scotian Boy]

Do you see an Evangelical in the first meaning as referring to those who reformed Catholic theology and became known as Lutherans?

The first meaning is synonymous with Lutheran. It means nothing more and nothing less than one who subscribes unconditionally to the Book of Concord.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Then your desire is to stay away from the scriptures.

No, as to Baptists, and to Lutheran's alike, the scriptures are the only inspired and infallible source for doctrines and theology!

 

[Albion]

The first meaning is synonymous with Lutheran. It means nothing more and nothing less than one who subscribes unconditionally to the Book of Concord.

Well, it is not "synonymous with Lutheran," even though it was Luther who was the first to effectively raise the banner that we today associate with the word (Evangelical) and the Confessional Lutheran churches are top-notch examples of Evangelical Christianity.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Well, it is not "synonymous with Lutheran," even though it was Luther who was the first to effectively raise the banner that we today associate with the word (Evangelical) and the Confessional Lutheran churches are top-notch examples of Evangelical Christianity.

The term Evangelical to me would refer to those Christians who uphold the essential truths and doctrines of the faith, and yet also are involved in culture/society, and in higher education for their members.

 

[Radagast]

The Pew Forum is wrong. Like most people, they get very confused by Lutherans.

I don't think Pew Forum are wrong -- they are the experts. The word "Evangelical" today means "not theologically liberal," and covers all the non-liberal Protestant denominations.

If you're telling me that the LCMS is now the same as the ELCA, that is disappointing, and I will stay away from LCMS churches in future.

You could write and tell Pew Forum that the LCMS now identifies itself with the ELCA. You could even merge.

 

[Concord1968]

I don't think Pew Forum are wrong. The word "Evangelical" today means "not theologically liberal."

If you're telling me that the LCMS is now the same as the ELCA, that is disappointing.

You could write and tell Pew Forum that the LCMS now identifies itself with the ELCA. You could even merge.

Not.
A.
Chance.

 

[tampasteve]

I don't think Pew Forum are wrong -- they are the experts. The word "Evangelical" today means "not theologically liberal," and covers all the non-liberal Protestant denominations.

If you're telling me that the LCMS is now the same as the ELCA, that is disappointing, and I will stay away from LCMS churches in future.

You could write and tell Pew Forum that the LCMS now identifies itself with the ELCA. You could even merge.

It's not that Pew is wrong, it is that Lutherans use "Evangelical" in a different meaning from Pew, overall.

As for ELCA and LCMS merging....not until Christ comes back. A more likely scenario is the ELCA, The Episcopal Church, and some others that are already in communion merging to a United Protestant Church or something.

 

[YeshuaFan]

It's not that Pew is wrong, it is that Lutherans use "Evangelical" in a different meaning from Pew, overall.

As for ELCA and LCMS merging....not until Christ comes back. A more likely scenario is the ELCA, The Episcopal Church, and some others that are already in communion merging to a United Protestant Church or something.

Which Lutheran group believes in ordaining gay minsters and performing gay weddings, and have now agreed with Rome they really teach the same Gospel now?

 

[tampasteve]

Which Lutheran group believes in ordaining gay minsters and performing gay weddings, and have now agreed with Rome they really teach the same Gospel now?

This sub-forum is about the LCMS/WLS/ELS/LCC, furthering the discussion of this post would be off topic, especially for a non-community member.

 

[YeshuaFan]

This sub-forum is about the LCMS/WLS/ELS/LCC, furthering the discussion of this post would be off topic, especially for a non-community member.

I was not meaning to start anything here, can they answer at least which church signed the statement saying Rome and Lutherans are now in agreement again?

 

[tampasteve]

I was not meaning to start anything here, can they answer at least which church signed the statement saying Rome and Lutherans are now in agreement again?

AH, my mistake. The ELCA is the American Lutheran church that did, the LCMS did not. But it does not say they are in agreement on much, it is a pretty basic agreement really. They are far from any sort of reunion.

 

[YeshuaFan]

AH, my mistake. The ELCA is the American Lutheran church that did, the LCMS did not. But it does not say they are in agreement on much, it is a pretty basic agreement really. They are far from any sort of reunion.

Thanks, as it sometimes get hard to keep track of all of the Lutherans churches, it must be as many have a hard time keeping us Baptists apart!

 

[Silverback]

I recently read that the confessional Lutheran churches are Evangelical. Are they thought of that way by most?

LCMS, WELS, and most of the smaller groups are very evangelical. Sadly, the largest Lutheran Denomination, the ELCA is not.