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Law of sin and death?

Mercy74

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You have to understand...
Romans 9:31
But that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.

Remember that Yeshua said...

Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

John 14:15

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Israel broke the law, separating faith from the law. Faith is based on the law, faith must be practiced lawfully. Abraham was made righteous by his faith, not works from the law.
 
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visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
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Israel broke the law, separating faith from the law. Faith is based on the law, faith must be practiced lawfully. Abraham was made righteous by his faith, not works from the law.
Faith is not based on the law, faith is based on your relationship with God. The law is the defining of what is sin.
Ezekiel 18:21
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezekiel 33:14
Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4)

If you have no law of God you have no definition of sin. God will have no law by which He can make judgment on the last day.
 
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visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
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Sin had its beginning with Lucifer, probably the most beautiful and powerful of the angels. Not content with his position, he desired to be higher than God, and that was his downfall, the beginning of sin (Isaiah 14:12-15). Sin has been passed down through all the generations of mankind and we have inherited sin from him. Romans 5:12 tells us that through Adam sin entered the world, and so death was passed on to all men because “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).

Types of sin
Inherent Inclination to sin.

King David lamented this condition of fallen human nature in Psalm 51:5: “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.”

Imputed sin

Greek word “imputed” means “to take something that belongs to someone and credit it to another’s account.” Before the Law of Moses was given, sin was not imputed to man, although men were still sinners because of inherited sin. After the Law was given, sins committed in violation of the Law were imputed (accounted) to them (Romans 5:13)

Personal Sin

Once we confess our personal sins to God and ask forgiveness for them, we are restored to perfect fellowship and communion with Him. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

Sin of Ignorance

Can't claim ignorance of sin. All sins are before God, and must be confessed.
Leviticus 4:13
And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty;

Leviticus 5:17
And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the Lord; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.
Penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23), not just physical death but eternal death (Revelation 20:11-15).
 
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Mercy74

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Faith is not based on the law, faith is based on your relationship with God. The law is the defining of what is sin.
Ezekiel 18:21
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezekiel 33:14
Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4)

If you have no law of God you have no definition of sin. God will have no law by which He can make judgment on the last day.
By the law is the knowledge of sin; anything not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). The law is not based on faith but the contrary (Galatians 3:12). What does "contrary" mean? Contrary means "opposite"; faith is based on the law. That which is apart, was once together in nature. To separate or divorce righteousness from the law, the law is no longer used lawfully. The law must not be separated from faith because faith must be used lawfully. Faith must not be used to bear false witness against your brother. The law of sin and death occurs when faith or righteousness is removed from the law of the Spirit of life.
 
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visionary

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By the law is the knowledge of sin; anything not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). The law is not based on faith but the contrary (Galatians 3:12). What does "contrary" mean? Contrary means "opposite"; faith is based on the law. That which is apart, was once together in nature. To separate or divorce righteousness from the law, the law is no longer used lawfully. The law must not be separated from faith because faith must be used lawfully. Faith must not be used to bear false witness against your brother. The law of sin and death occurs when faith or righteousness is removed from the law of the Spirit of life.
I think we are saying the same thing from different angles.
 
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Mercy74

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Remember the Hebrew mind is not always this or that...
Faith is based on the law; in order to properly use faith you must practice Torah law. A promise was made to Abraham, Abraham kept the law and statutes (Genesis 26:5), Abraham was counted righteous because of his faith. You see how faith is based on the law?
 
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Tone

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Faith is based on the law; in order to properly use faith you must practice Torah law. A promise was made to Abraham, Abraham kept the law and statutes (Genesis 26:5), Abraham was counted righteous because of his faith. You see how faith is based on the law?

Yes, it is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen." Faith is based on Torah...Torah is based on faith...

Mark 10:8
"And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh."
 
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Tone

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."
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Faith is based on the law; in order to properly use faith you must practice Torah law. A promise was made to Abraham, Abraham kept the law and statutes (Genesis 26:5), Abraham was counted righteous because of his faith. You see how faith is based on the law?

" the relation between aggadah and halakhah is similar to the relation between theory and practice, between idea and application, and, in the area of ethics, between character and behavior."
Aggadah or Haggadah| Jewish Virtual Library

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."
 
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Mercy74

Mercy Messianic Judaism
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Yes, it is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen." Faith is based on Torah...Torah is based on faith...

Mark 10:8
"And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh."
Paul the pharisee wrote that the law is not based on faith, but the contrary; faith is based on the law. The law of sin and death becomes evident when the law is based on faith. I am speaking about the law of the Spirit of life, the law of sin and death. The comparison between two spiritual things (Romans 7:14), Mark 10:8 is referring to the joining of two carnal things or flesh; male and female.
 
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Tone

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Paul the pharisee wrote that the law is not based on faith, but the contrary; faith is based on the law. The law of sin and death becomes evident when the law is based on faith. I am speaking about the law of the Spirit of life, the law of sin and death. The comparison between two spiritual things (Romans 7:14), Mark 10:8 is referring to the joining of two carnal things or flesh; male and female.

When they were joined,it was as spiritual as you can get.
 
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Mercy74

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" the relation between aggadah and halakhah is similar to the relation between theory and practice, between idea and application, and, in the area of ethics, between character and behavior."
Aggadah or Haggadah| Jewish Virtual Library

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."
The law is spiritual, faith is based on the law. Israel attempted to practice Torah without listening to the voice of YHWH. Abraham kept the laws and statutes, but Abraham was made righteous by his faith; Abraham listened to the voice of YHWH. Yeshua says that the sheep know the shepherd voice. It's interesting however, that the sheep and shepherd do not speak the same language. A sheep must be able to hear his shepherd's voice, sheep are illiterate. A sheep can not read a letter from his master.
 
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Mercy74

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When they were joined,it was as spiritual as you can get.
Male and female can not become one body or one flesh until death of the body; the law of sin and death, husband and wife become like one pile of dirt, same lump of clay (Romans 9:21).
 
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Tone

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Male and female can not become one body or one flesh until death of the body; the law of sin and death, husband and wife become like one pile of dirt, same lump of clay (Romans 9:21).

Adam and Eve were joined before the fall, so how was their union not spiritual? Even a marriage between two fallen human beings is spiritual, though of course only a shadow of what it once was, or what it should be.
 
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Mercy74

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Adam and Eve were joined before the fall, so how was their union not spiritual? Even a marriage between two fallen human beings is spiritual, though of course only a shadow of what it once was, or what it should be.
One must be married before one can be divorced, if one is separated then one becomes two. Adam fell into a deep sleep (Genesis 2:21), then Adam became male and female; Adam became two. Two tablets of stone. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall, all the king's horses and all the king's men could not put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
 
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Tone

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One must be married before one can be divorced, if one is separated then one becomes two. Adam fell into a deep sleep (Genesis 2:21), then Adam became male and female; Adam became two. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall, all the king's horses and all the king's men could not put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

My point was that faith and law are not diametrically opposed to each other (not in Messiah), they are complimentary.
 
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Mercy74

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My point was that faith and law are not diametrically opposed to each other (not in Messiah), they are complimentary.
Faith is based on the law, so faith must be practiced within the law. Faith is the righteousness from G-d apart from the law of the Spirit of life. Much in the same way, a motor is apart of a car. In order to drive the car, the motor must be working properly inside the car.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Yes indeed, the law is good as long as it is used lawfully. The law is holy and good, the law is intended to give life (Romans 7:10).
The law is not made for s righteous man as we read in 1 Timothy

Are you righteous in faith? if so consider

“ 1 Timothy 1:9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,”
 
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Mercy74

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The law is not made for s righteous man as we read in 1 Timothy

Are you righteous in faith? if so consider

“ 1 Timothy 1:9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,”
Faith is based on the law of the Spirit of life; Galatians 3:12
 
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pinacled

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My point was that faith and law are not diametrically opposed to each other (not in Messiah), they are complimentary.
Amen,
I once heard in the spirit that haggadah compliments halachah.

I'm somewhat surprised the mishkan covering wasn't further discussed.
It seemed to me that there is something that points to a change of garments.

Sorry about not responding to your post.
Figured an exploratory thought would be helpful to the readers and hoped more posters would of joined in the fellowship.
 
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