Law of Moses written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant

[BobRyan]

The LAW of Moses includes the moral law of God which includes God's Commandments - God's Ten Commandments where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is the 5th commandment the one for Honoring parents. James 2:8-11 agrees that the TEN are included.

It also includes civil and ceremonial laws that ended at the cross (in the case of animal sacrifices and offerings) and when Israel ceased to be governed as a theocracy (in the case of civil laws)

Under the NEW Covenant God writes "His LAW on the heart and mind" Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

No wonder that in the NT - Scripture says -

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"THIS IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the Law" Rom 3:31
The LAW defines what sin IS Rom 3:19-20
"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 KJV
the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 in that still valid unit of TEN.


---
"And by him all that believe are justified from all things,from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).

Scripture says you cannot be justified by the Law of Moses.

So then -- More examples of The LAW of Moses

"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
"Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12

And of course nobody can be "justified" by that law - however that LAW IS "Written on the heart and mind" under the NEW Covenant for the born-again Christian.

"IF they will not hear Moses NEITHER will they listen though one rises from the dead" Luke 16

But some will say "I thought Christ came to oppose the writing of Moses" -- however notice that in Matthew 17 it is "Moses and Elijah" standing in glorified form "WITH Christ" before the cross -

 

[HARK!]

It also includes civil and ceremonial laws that ended at the cross (in the case of animal sacrifices and offerings)

Nope.

His disciples observed the Moedim at the temple, even after Yahshua's ascension. Paul even paid for the sacrifices for four taking the Nazorite Vow.

We are to present ourselves a living sacrifice.

The Moedim will be observed in the Millennial Reign, with the Levitical Priesthood making sacrifices.

 

[expos4ever]

The LAW defines what sin IS Rom 3:19-20

No. As you have already been shown, this is not what Paul is saying. Here is your text:

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin

Who is under the Law of Moses? The Jew and the Jew only - to suggest otherwise is otherwise deliberate misrepresentation or demonstrates a lack of basic knowledge of the Old Testament.

So why does Paul speak about the "whole world"? Well you very conveniently omit a treatment of the first 18 verses. In those verses:

- Paul first indicts the Jew;
- Paul then indicts the Gentile.

So when we get to verse 19, he has laid the framework for a summary statement: The Law indicts the Jew, and as I (Paul) have already shown, the Gentile is in trouble as well as I have also shown; therefore, the whole world is in trouble.

By not dealing with the preceding material you are tricking readers into thinking the Law of Moses is for the Gentiles as well.

That is patently absurd based on massive evidence from both Testaments. While Paul's wording here might be less than perfect there can be no argument: the Law of Moses was given to the Jews and the Jews only. I challenge you to name me one scholar - a real one, mind you - that thinks otherwise.

 

[expos4ever]

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 KJV

As you have been repeatedly shown, a literal translation does not support your conclusion - you are cherry-picking from various translations to find one that has "the law". The literal translation is "lawlessness" - no specificity to the Law of Moses.

 

[BobRyan]

No. As you have already been shown, this is not what Paul is saying. Here is your text:

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin

yep - that is exactly the point - the LAW defines what sin is and places "every mouth" in fact "all the world" under that condemnation as "sinners" in need of the Gospel as we see in Romans 3.


KJV - 1 John 3: 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Just as we see the NASB doing in James 2

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

====

Clearly as KJV and NASB show us comparing NASB James 2:8-11 with KJV 1 John 3:4

Both translations are saying that sin IS transgression of the LAW

In fact it is the LAW that defines what sin IS - (being transgression of that Law)

The moral law of God defines what sin IS - and places all mankind under condemnation as sinners in need of the Gospel:

Romans 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:23 "ALL" have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Romans 7:
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” ... 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Its the moral law of God where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment according to Eph 6:1-2

================================

here then is a Bible detail - much-to-be-ignored for anyone that holds to a preference which does not allow for this detail to even exist.

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (not just jews)

1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the law" -- (not ... "just for jews")

Rom 3:19-20 "every mouth" and "all the world" have the problem of sin.. all the world needs salvation "not just Jews"

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:31 "do WE then make void the LAW of God by our faith? on the contrary! We ESTABLISH the LAW"

 

[BobRyan]

As you have been repeatedly shown, a literal translation does not support your conclusion

As you have been repeatedly shown both KJV in 1 John 3:4 and the NASB in James 2 fully agree that sin IS "transgression of the LAW"

KJV - 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Just as we see the NASB doing in James 2

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

====

The literal translation is "lawlessness" - no specificity to the Law of Moses.

Clearly as KJV and NASB show us comparing NASB James 2:8-11 with KJV 1 John 3:4-- you are pointing out a "distinction without a difference"

 

[BobRyan]

Who is under the Law of Moses? The Jew and the Jew only

Not according to Romans 3:19-20 - all "every mouth" and "All the world" are under condemnation of the LAW as sinners who are in violation of it and in need of the Gospel... not "just jews".


Romans 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:23 "ALL" have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Rom 3:31 "do WE then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Interesting that in Romans 2 it is the gentiles that Paul describes as 'keeping the LAW" of Moses. Rom 2:13-16, 26-29

Rom 2
26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Romans 7:
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” ... 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Its the moral law of God where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment according to Eph 6:1-2

 

[GospelS]

When a command and command prompt is entered into an operating system, does it not do its own thing (unless of course if there’s some virus attack or errors).

We have the command written on our system (heart) and the command prompt (the Holy Spirit) that executes the command. And we have The Perfect programmer.

Ok, that’s just my thoughts for now.

 

[swordsman1]

Under the NEW Covenant God writes "His LAW on the heart and mind" Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

When a Gentile, who has never heard of the 10 Commandments, becomes aware of their sin, repents, and becomes a Christian, they would instinctively know not to worship any other god, not to take God's name in vain, not to disrespect their parents, not to murder, not to commit adultery, not to steal, not to lie, etc. He would instinctively know they are morally wrong and sinful. However isn't it strange that no Gentile believer, who has never heard of the 10 Commandments, would instinctively know to keep Saturday as a holy day. It seems to me that the 4th commandment is not a moral law written on people's hearts.

 

[BobRyan]

When a Gentile, who has never heard of the 10 Commandments, becomes aware of their sin, repents, and becomes a Christian, they would instinctively know not to worship any other god,

They might also know that Christ is the Son of God and that the Bible is the Word of God and that having a "Love of the Truth" involves reading the Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

When a command and command prompt is entered into an operating system, does it not do its own thing (unless of course if there’s some virus attack or errors).

We have the command written on our system (heart) and the command prompt (the Holy Spirit) that executes the command. And we have The Perfect programmer.

Ok, that’s just my thoughts for now.

that illustration strikes near to home for me.

 

[Dkh587]

When a Gentile, who has never heard of the 10 Commandments, becomes aware of their sin, repents, and becomes a Christian, they would instinctively know not to worship any other god, not to take God's name in vain, not to disrespect their parents, not to murder, not to commit adultery, not to steal, not to lie, etc. He would instinctively know they are morally wrong and sinful. However isn't it strange that no Gentile believer, who has never heard of the 10 Commandments, would instinctively know to keep Saturday as a holy day. It seems to me that the 4th commandment is not a moral law written on people's hearts.

You can’t repent if you don’t read the law. The law teaches what sin is, so when you read it, you can see your sin, and turn from it.

 

[swordsman1]

They might also know that Christ is the Son of God and that the Bible is the Word of God and that having a "Love of the Truth" involves reading the Bible.

What they subsequently read in the bible would be discovered knowledge (should it apply to them), not something written on their hearts.

 

[swordsman1]

You can’t repent if you don’t read the law. The law teaches what sin is, so when you read it, you can see your sin, and turn from it.

So it is impossible for a gentile, or an atheist, to become a Christian unless they have read the 10 commandments beforehand?

 

[BobRyan]

What they subsequently read in the bible would be discovered knowledge (should it apply to them), not something written on their hearts.

Where did you get the idea that God cannot write one of His commandments on your heart "if you read it first"?? where does that text come from?

By contrast -- we have this
"FAITH comes by hearing - and hearing by the WORD of God" Rom 10 KJV

17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. NKJV

17 so then the faith [is] by a report, and the report through a saying of God, YLT (Young's Literal translation)

 

[SkyWriting]

Nope.

His disciples observed the Moedim at the temple, even after Yahshua's ascension. Paul even paid for the sacrifices for four taking the Nazorite Vow.

We are to present ourselves a living sacrifice.

The Moedim will be observed in the Millennial Reign, with the Levitical Priesthood making sacrifices.

The disciples made a lot of mistakes. Missed a lot of what Jesus was teaching.
Denied they knew him. Criticized his teachings to his face. Chastised him for the company he kept. Etc. And Paul never met him, the worst sinner of all of them.

 

[swordsman1]

Where did you get the idea that God cannot write one of His commandments on your heart "if you read it first"?? where does that text come from?

I am talking about a Gentile who has never read the 10 Commandments before becoming a Christian. He instinctively knows that activities such as murder and adultery are morally wrong and sinful because they are written in his heart (Rom 2:15). But he feels no such natural conviction about keeping a Saturday sabbath.

By contrast -- we have this
"FAITH comes by hearing - and hearing by the WORD of God" Rom 10

Actually it says
"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."

ie. Faith comes from hearing the Gospel. Not by hearing the 10 commandments.

 

[HARK!]

The disciples made a lot of mistakes. Missed a lot of what Jesus was teaching.
Denied they knew him. Criticized his teachings to his face. Chastised him for the company he kept. Etc. And Paul never met him, the worst sinner of all of them.

Have you walked on water? Have you raised the dead? Do you really believe that you know better than Yahshua's hand picked apostles? If not, get back to me when you have a more credible argument.

 

[HARK!]

So it is impossible for a gentile, or an atheist, to become a Christian unless they have read the 10 commandments beforehand?

If the law is a schoolmaster that brings us to Yahshua; and Yahshua is the way; and during his whole ministry, he was teaching obedience to the Torah; do you know of another way?

 

[BobRyan]

What they subsequently read in the bible would be discovered knowledge (should it apply to them), not something written on their hearts.

Where did you get the idea that God cannot write one of His commandments on your heart "if you read it first"?? where does that text come from?

By contrast -- we have this
"FAITH comes by hearing - and hearing by the WORD of God" Rom 10 KJV

17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. NKJV

17 so then the faith [is] by a report, and the report through a saying of God, YLT (Young's Literal translation)

Actually it says
"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."

unless you believe that Christ is not in fact God - there is no difference.

============= from the OP

The of God LAW IS "Written on the heart and mind" under the NEW Covenant for the born-again Christian.

"IF they will not hear Moses NEITHER will they listen though one rises from the dead" Luke 16

But some will say "I thought Christ came to oppose the teaching of Moses" -- however notice that in Matthew 17 it is "Moses and Elijah" standing in glorified form "WITH Christ" before the cross -