Knowing the "heart" (and mind maybe) of God...?

[razzelflabben]

Well, I feel like I do know that God's love is not "romanticism", or mere romanticism, like the world seems to think...

I think many people, and especially many women, are greatly deceived by this...

God Bless!

okay, the world's idea of love is an emotionally nice, warm, positive feeling towards something or someone. Nicely done. But I do caution you on saying that God's Love is not romantic because if you recall in scripture Christ is the Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride, this is a romantic element to His Love. (BTW, I capitalize Love when I am referring to God's Love, just for clarification.)

So iow's you are right and wrong all at the same time....

 

[Neogaia777]

okay, the world's idea of love is an emotionally nice, warm, positive feeling towards something or someone. Nicely done. But I do caution you on saying that God's Love is not romantic because if you recall in scripture Christ is the Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride, this is a romantic element to His Love. (BTW, I capitalize Love when I am referring to God's Love, just for clarification.)

So iow's you are right and wrong all at the same time....

That kind of love can be hell and involve a lot of pain... (see my post before this one) And I did say "mere" romanticism, or "only just primarily mere" romanticism and "nothing else", or nothing "more" or "higher" than that... To think that the romantic aspect of love is it's highest and greatest form is a big mistake IMO...

God Bless!

 

[razzelflabben]

That kind of love can be hell and involve a lot of pain... (see my post before this one) And I did say "mere" romanticism, or "only just primarily mere" romanticism and "nothing else", or nothing "more" or "higher" than that... To think that the romantic aspect of love is it's highest and greatest form is a big mistake IMO...

God Bless!

amen...one of the first studies I did on Love was to look at all the ways God expresses His Love to us. I identified 13 different ways He expresses to us His Love, for example, He is the Bridegroom (romantic) but He is also Father (Parent Love) friend (phileo Love), Savior (rescuer) etc. So where all of these are necessary in order for us to understand God's Love, we dare never try to pit one over the other in an attempt to understand God's heart and mind...well said...

 

[Halbhh]

Knowing the "heart" (and mind maybe) of God...?

Is this possible...? And if so, what is it (God's heart) like...? According to all the information we have on him (God) or this (his heart), in all the scriptures...?

This came up because of these posts in this thread:

Was or is YHWH, or the God that interacted with men in the OT 100% completely omniscient...?

Was or is YHWH, or the God that interacted with men in the OT 100% completely omniscient...?

What do you think...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

I trust the direct answer in Isaiah chapter 55 on this.

 

[Colter]

Maybe everyone could agree. That the divine has revealed some aspects of divine will and divine intent. Yet humans can never grasp the whole entire totality of divine intelligence?. We know some things because we were told, but not all things, namely those we weren't told.

That’s a good point, we trust God because there is literally an infinite amount of truth possibility that we don’t know. But a false sense of sacredness of the scripture prevents them from being safeguarded by just a little common sense.

In the secular or scientific world, if two diametrically opposing claims are made then we have no problem choosing one over the other. In fact when a theory in science is disproven by facts, the religious are quick to point that out. However, due to the doctrine of the inerrancy of the scripture, two opposing claims are said to be 100% true. The pride of religion prevents it from admitting the errors of scripture while religion has no problem confessing the faults of the world.

 

[Neogaia777]

I trust the direct answer in Isaiah chapter 55 on this.

Amen!

That is an excellent call to his Love, but does it really tell us all that his Love is...?

And what does that scripture tell us about his (God's) heart...?

God Bless!

 

[razzelflabben]

That’s a good point, we trust God because there is literally an infinite amount of truth possibility that we don’t know. But a false sense of sacredness of the scripture prevents them from being safeguarded by just a little common sense.

In the secular or scientific world, if two diametrically opposing claims are made then we have no problem choosing one over the other. In fact when a theory in science is disproven by facts, the religious are quick to point that out. However, due to the doctrine of the inerrancy of the scripture, two opposing claims are said to be 100% true. The pride of religion prevents it from admitting the errors of scripture while religion has no problem confessing the faults of the world.

many things that appear to be opposites are in reality nothing more than a difference in perspective. These is very clearly seen throughout scripture when we compare reading various passages with a worldly mindset or a spiritual one. In fact, Isaiah 55 talks about how our perspective is different from God's

 

[Halbhh]

Amen!

That is an excellent call to his Love, but does it really tell us all that his Love is...?

And what does that scripture tell us about his (God's) heart...?

God Bless!

It says we cannot know all about His thoughts. But in a better more full way than my previous sentence.

Of course we know what He has said, and that's much. But the message in chapter 55 is that this is far less than all. (but again better said than my summary)

In a way this is the most key missing thing on CF

Too often people think that if they have something He said, they have all, 100%. What makes people do that?

Perhaps it's the wonder of what He says, that even having one or two things is so wondrous, often people feel as if that must be ALL.

 

[Neogaia777]

It says we cannot know all about His thoughts.

So, we shouldn't try...?

Does God truly make himself unknowable...?

I just don't know if I can believe that part... I would rather die than not try (to know him and his heart and his ways, ect)... "Him" basically... I would rather die...

And even if it turns out I can't, then I consider it time very well spent, and the efforts to do so, very much, and very well worth it, regardless...

And, the effort, even it is never fully attained or achieved, yields very much and many very great rewards, both here, and in the hereafter, I believe... Even if never fully attained or achieved...

God Bless!

 

[Halbhh]

So, we shouldn't try...?

Does God truly make himself unknowable...?

I just don't know if I can believe that part... I would rather die than not try (to know him and his heart and his ways, ect)... "Him" basically... I would rather die...

And even if it turns out I can't, then I consider it time very well spent, and the efforts to do so, very much, and very well worth it, regardless...

And, the effort, even it is never fully attained or achieved, yields very much and many very great rewards, both here, and in the hereafter, I believe... Even if never fully attained or achieved...

God Bless!

We are trying to learn more all the time, yes?

The message isn't that we know nothing, or hit a wall. When a person does the greatest commandment, that's a huge moment of gaining closer and more of God.

The message in that chapter says another thing -- He is much greater even than the wondrous things we have learned so far.

Isaiah 55 just says it better though, than I have here!

 

[Neogaia777]

We are trying to learn more all the time, yes?

The message isn't that we know nothing, or hit a wall. It says another thing -- He is much greater even than the wondrous things we have learned so far.

Isaiah 55 just says it better though, than I have here!

Yeah, it seems that every single time I might even flirt with the thought of being "there", there always seems to always be "more", and "much more"...

But, I like it... I don't think I would really want to have it any other way, really...

I was just making sure you were not saying there was "no point" to the effort, or even trying, and growing, was all...

God Bless!

 

[Colter]

many things that appear to be opposites are in reality nothing more than a difference in perspective. These is very clearly seen throughout scripture when we compare reading various passages with a worldly mindset or a spiritual one. In fact, Isaiah 55 talks about how our perspective is different from God's

True, but that only goes so far. Perspective is used to make poor excuses for things that are wrong.

Lacking the visible presence of God Man has always been tempted to make God out of various things, even the scripture books written by Holy men.

 

[dqhall]

Knowing the "heart" (and mind maybe) of God...?

Is this possible...? And if so, what is it (God's heart) like...? According to all the information we have on him (God) or this (his heart), in all the scriptures...?

This came up because of these posts in this thread:

Was or is YHWH, or the God that interacted with men in the OT 100% completely omniscient...?

Was or is YHWH, or the God that interacted with men in the OT 100% completely omniscient...?

What do you think...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

A man did not achieve perfection because of his unbelief. One ought not say God is less than omnipotent.

Matthew 13 (World English Bible - Public Domain)
54 Coming into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother called Mary, and his brothers, James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? 56 Aren't all of his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all of these things?" 57 They were offended by him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country, and in his own house." 58 He didn't do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

 

[Neogaia777]

A man did not achieve perfection because of his unbelief. One ought not say God is less than omnipotent.

Matthew 13 (World English Bible - Public Domain)
54 Coming into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother called Mary, and his brothers, James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? 56 Aren't all of his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all of these things?" 57 They were offended by him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country, and in his own house." 58 He didn't do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

God the Father, no... But only his chosen vessel, God the Son, through which he chose to reveal himself and show us his heart, which necessitates that that vessel not be 100% fully and completely omniscient, or not as great as him (John 10:29) (John 14:28)...

But, please go to the other thread(s) if you wish to discuss that please, I'm not going to do it here, K...?

God Bless!

 

[razzelflabben]

True, but that only goes so far. Perspective is used to make poor excuses for things that are wrong.

Lacking the visible presence of God Man has always been tempted to make God out of various things, even the scripture books written by Holy men.

I'm not sure your point here in that I thought we were primarily talking about God's perspective vs. man's..for example some of the OT orders by God were given as examples but if we look at God's perspective for giving the orders it was about protecting His children from evil....different perspective.

I mean I don't disagree with you here I'm just a bit confused by the line of discussion we were having, seems like we are now changing the direction.

 

[Colter]

It says we cannot know all about His thoughts. But in a better more full way than my previous sentence.

Of course we know what He has said, and that's much. But the message in chapter 55 is that this is far less than all. (but again better said than my summary)

In a way this is the most key missing thing on CF

Too often people think that if they have something He said, they have all, 100%. What makes people do that?

Perhaps it's the wonder of what He says, that even having one or two things is so wondrous, often people feel as if that must be ALL.

God cannot do the un-godlike thing nor can he know the unknowable.

 

[Neogaia777]

True, but that only goes so far. Perspective is used to make poor excuses for things that are wrong.

Lacking the visible presence of God Man has always been tempted to make God out of various things, even the scripture books written by Holy men.

I don't believe that those men were "lying" about God... Yes, they were imperfect, and yes, maybe lacked certain perspectives or knowledge... But, I do not think they talked about what they "didn't know" but only what they "did know" or knew for certain or for sure... And they were very right and very correct about that and those parts (that they did know)...

Do you really think otherwise...?

God Bless!

 

[razzelflabben]

God the Father, no... But only his chosen vessel, God the Son, through which he chose to reveal himself and show us his heart, which necessitates that that vessel not be 100% fully and completely omniscient, or not as great as him (John 10:29) (John 14:28)...

But, please go to the other thread(s) if you wish to discuss that please, I'm not going to do it here, K...?

God Bless!

I find Hebrews 5:8 a fascinating passage about the humanity of Christ in relation to our humanity and what is possible if we simply give ourselves completely over to God.

 

[Neogaia777]

God cannot do the un-godlike thing nor can he know the unknowable.

You know what the un-Godlike thing(s) are huh...? By who's evaluation and opinion...? Yours and your own...? Why, cause you are making God in your own image and likeness maybe...?

And just what the heck do you mean by God not knowing the unknowable...?

You talking about God the Father, or God the Son...?

God the Son, as YHWH in the OT, the only thing he lacked was 100% full omniscience, and a knowledge or knowing of any sin or evil, that he did not know any of, or anything about (that) until it was exposed to him by man...

And he was greatly repulsed and had many feelings about it and over it, and did not know it fully till he came to us as a man... Then he began to begin to understand all that the Father was trying to show him...

God Bless!

 

[Colter]

I'm not sure your point here in that I thought we were primarily talking about God's perspective vs. man's..for example some of the OT orders by God were given as examples but if we look at God's perspective for giving the orders it was about protecting His children from evil....different perspective.

I mean I don't disagree with you here I'm just a bit confused by the line of discussion we were having, seems like we are now changing the direction.

In the Old Testament claims were made by the victors that their success and behavior was sanctioned by God when it was just human behavior rationalized from a religio-human perspective. In that age they saw God in everything. The vantage point of the authors of scripture was long after the events they wrote about and relative to their own people.