The King James Version of the Bible is obviously one of the most popular, so I am curious as to how the forum participants view this book.
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King James Version
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seebs
God Made Me A Skeptic
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Well, my answer isn't really in the poll. I went with "flawed translation", but the reason suggested is not why I think it's flawed. I think it's flawed because translation was simply not well-understood at the time, and because humans are fallible.
I also think it's a beautiful work of art, and I prefer it almost all the time - as long as I have time to stop and explain all the archaic usages and bad translations. Still... The language is beautiful.
It is, however, frequently a genuinely *awful* translation, especially when you take into account the changes between then and now in English. Nowadays, when a wife cleaves to her husband, her last name is Bobbit.
I also think it's a beautiful work of art, and I prefer it almost all the time - as long as I have time to stop and explain all the archaic usages and bad translations. Still... The language is beautiful.
It is, however, frequently a genuinely *awful* translation, especially when you take into account the changes between then and now in English. Nowadays, when a wife cleaves to her husband, her last name is Bobbit.
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I've always heard it was an excellent translation for that time period (meaning the language/words used). Sure it had flaws, but all translations do.
I've done some greek study with the NKJV and it appears
fairly accurate, from what I can tell. I'm not sure about
the Hebrew. But overall it conforms pretty closely to
the NASB (give or take).
I have difficulty following the KJV today because of the grammar and words. The NKJV has updated alot of that.
I don't think it was a special "inspired" translation nor
was written in a special "holy ghost language" (which
I've heard some people say).
peace,
owen_rocks
I've done some greek study with the NKJV and it appears
fairly accurate, from what I can tell. I'm not sure about
the Hebrew. But overall it conforms pretty closely to
the NASB (give or take).
I have difficulty following the KJV today because of the grammar and words. The NKJV has updated alot of that.
I don't think it was a special "inspired" translation nor
was written in a special "holy ghost language" (which
I've heard some people say).
peace,
owen_rocks
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seebs
God Made Me A Skeptic
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Well, as an example, I think it's generally accepted now that a Hebrew word translated in most of the OT of the KJV as "sodomite" actually refers to a kind of cult prostitute...
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Now that I got my attempt at "humor" out of the way.....
The KJV is probably the most popular version of the Bible out there. I use the NIV myself, if for no other reason than it is just easier to understand. I just have a hard time with all of the "thee's" and "thy's" and "thou's" and such as that. I don't think that it is any less "correct" than any other translation, just harder to follow.
The KJV is probably the most popular version of the Bible out there. I use the NIV myself, if for no other reason than it is just easier to understand. I just have a hard time with all of the "thee's" and "thy's" and "thou's" and such as that. I don't think that it is any less "correct" than any other translation, just harder to follow.
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Who says that there is no KJV translation of the apocrypha? I have a copy.
Is it a fake? (or possibly from several hundred years later or something?)
Is it a fake? (or possibly from several hundred years later or something?)
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GreenEyedLady
My little Dinky Doo
Yes I do love my KJV bible! It is the BEST one out there..I just recieved this e-mail from a friend...read this!
Hello,
I just want to say that I use to work at a
Christian store called FCS. As of today at about 5
P.M. I was called and told that I was to be paid for
my hours for Friday and all of next week and after
that I was to be 'let go'. I asked if I was fired but
was told that no,I was just being 'let go'. What
happened is what one may ask and this is a short
version of my story that began on 2/27/02.
I found your site and after checking out the info
on Zondervan (Family Christian Stores was owned by
Zondervan at one time) I wanted to know what this was
all about. I am in charge of the Bible section in the
store where I 'use' to work and thought that this was
another hate group. What I found was something that
will change my life forever and I just have to tell
every Christian I know.
I went to look up info on that of Harper Collins
Publishing and found that they (being Harper Collins
Pub.) as well printed a satanic bible as well as other
books that we as Christians fight so hard against. I
was hurt,stunned,and could not believe my eyes. I had
to know the truth and with that I went looking for
some answers. As of 2/27/02 I called Family Christian
Stores home office and asked to speak with someone
about the history of our store (that being FCS). I was
put through to a lady that asked me how she could help
and after telling her I wanted to know about the
history of FCS I was transfered to another person.
This person was not in and was told that if I left a
message he would get back with me. I did leave my name
and nunber and told him that I worked for FCS and
wanted to know what our history was. My day ended and
I thought nothing more of it. That is until I got a
call on 2/28/02 about noon.
It was him returning my
call and I was asked how he could help me. I ask about
if FCS was owned by Harper Collins Pub and was asked
why I wanted to know this. His tone had changed and
now I was really begining to wonder. I told him that I
worked for FCS for two years and that I understand that
we used to be Zondervan (or owned by Zondervan) and
that in turn Zondervan now is owned by Harper Collins
Publishing. I asked if we, FCS, were owned by Harper
Collins Pub. as well and was told that we are no
longer with Zondervan, we are our own company. I was
happy to hear this but I still wanted to know about
that NIV/Zondervan/Harper Collins Pub. deal and asked
if this was the same Harper Collins Pub. that made the
Satanic bible and was told that we (FCS) were no
longer with Zondervan and that Zondervan was and is
still a good Christian group. But what about the
profits for the NIV that Zondervan make which is owned
by Harper Collins which makes satanic bibles? I was
told that I needed to talk with my manager and/or my
district manager. I was as well told that if I was
unhappy with the company that I could stay or I could
go,that was up to me. I told him that if I find out
that this is true (that Harper Collins Pub. is the one
and same that makes satanic bibles and yet makes the
NIV) I would leave FCS. He in return asked if what
was true? I told him that if Harper Collins Pub. was
the same as the one who made/makes satanic bibles and
NIV while getting money from both. I was told that
they are sinners and that even he himself was a
sinner. I was shocked! This man was trying to make
right what was going on. I told him that I was sinner
as well but that we need to try to better ourselves.
He told me that I need to now talk with not my manager
but the district manager the next time he (the
district manager) came to our store. I hung up hurt
and wondering why I could not get a straight answer
out of a Christian store that I believed in.
I thought my day was done and after returning home
from work I get another call,it was around 5 P.M. It
was my manger at FCS and she was calling to tell me
that she has heard I called home office. She said it
was fine but that after talking with them that they
have decided that I need to take Friday (tomorrow) and
all of next work week off,paid. As well I was informed
that I no longer work for FCS and with that I asked if
I was fired,which I was told no,that I was being 'let
go'. I asked about the Harper Collins Pub. as well and
she said that Zondervan is a Chrisitian company and
that they (Zondervan) still are there to help
Christians everywhere. I asked but what about the
satanic bibles and was told that Zondervan is
Christian. I stated that Zondervan was owned by Harper
Collins Pub. and that meant that Harper Collins Pub. is
getting paid for both NIV bibles and satanic bibles
and was told this would be a correct statement but
that she did not know all of the answer BUT could find
out for me. As well she told me that Christian music
is under the other big names that put out all of this
stuff that we are so against and that is only because
this helps keeps the cost down. I am hurt,I am
shocked,and I am scared. I have looked away and turned
my back and now look at us. We are giving money to
people who put out satanic bibles along with NIV
translations.
I may have (which I feel I did lose)
lost my job because I stood up for what I believe in
and know what? I would do it again and I plan to make
sure that I tell everyone I know what I have learned
today. I am not perfect but I as well know that God
can work through me and use me to be His hands and
feet. I will serve a God that will protect me and
watch over me. I will serve a God that I know can and
will provide. I may meet people who don`t care to
listen but I will tell people who want to know.
May God bless you and keep faith;
John Wiser (Ex Member of
FCS #142)
Hello,
I just want to say that I use to work at a
Christian store called FCS. As of today at about 5
P.M. I was called and told that I was to be paid for
my hours for Friday and all of next week and after
that I was to be 'let go'. I asked if I was fired but
was told that no,I was just being 'let go'. What
happened is what one may ask and this is a short
version of my story that began on 2/27/02.
I found your site and after checking out the info
on Zondervan (Family Christian Stores was owned by
Zondervan at one time) I wanted to know what this was
all about. I am in charge of the Bible section in the
store where I 'use' to work and thought that this was
another hate group. What I found was something that
will change my life forever and I just have to tell
every Christian I know.
I went to look up info on that of Harper Collins
Publishing and found that they (being Harper Collins
Pub.) as well printed a satanic bible as well as other
books that we as Christians fight so hard against. I
was hurt,stunned,and could not believe my eyes. I had
to know the truth and with that I went looking for
some answers. As of 2/27/02 I called Family Christian
Stores home office and asked to speak with someone
about the history of our store (that being FCS). I was
put through to a lady that asked me how she could help
and after telling her I wanted to know about the
history of FCS I was transfered to another person.
This person was not in and was told that if I left a
message he would get back with me. I did leave my name
and nunber and told him that I worked for FCS and
wanted to know what our history was. My day ended and
I thought nothing more of it. That is until I got a
call on 2/28/02 about noon.
It was him returning my
call and I was asked how he could help me. I ask about
if FCS was owned by Harper Collins Pub and was asked
why I wanted to know this. His tone had changed and
now I was really begining to wonder. I told him that I
worked for FCS for two years and that I understand that
we used to be Zondervan (or owned by Zondervan) and
that in turn Zondervan now is owned by Harper Collins
Publishing. I asked if we, FCS, were owned by Harper
Collins Pub. as well and was told that we are no
longer with Zondervan, we are our own company. I was
happy to hear this but I still wanted to know about
that NIV/Zondervan/Harper Collins Pub. deal and asked
if this was the same Harper Collins Pub. that made the
Satanic bible and was told that we (FCS) were no
longer with Zondervan and that Zondervan was and is
still a good Christian group. But what about the
profits for the NIV that Zondervan make which is owned
by Harper Collins which makes satanic bibles? I was
told that I needed to talk with my manager and/or my
district manager. I was as well told that if I was
unhappy with the company that I could stay or I could
go,that was up to me. I told him that if I find out
that this is true (that Harper Collins Pub. is the one
and same that makes satanic bibles and yet makes the
NIV) I would leave FCS. He in return asked if what
was true? I told him that if Harper Collins Pub. was
the same as the one who made/makes satanic bibles and
NIV while getting money from both. I was told that
they are sinners and that even he himself was a
sinner. I was shocked! This man was trying to make
right what was going on. I told him that I was sinner
as well but that we need to try to better ourselves.
He told me that I need to now talk with not my manager
but the district manager the next time he (the
district manager) came to our store. I hung up hurt
and wondering why I could not get a straight answer
out of a Christian store that I believed in.
I thought my day was done and after returning home
from work I get another call,it was around 5 P.M. It
was my manger at FCS and she was calling to tell me
that she has heard I called home office. She said it
was fine but that after talking with them that they
have decided that I need to take Friday (tomorrow) and
all of next work week off,paid. As well I was informed
that I no longer work for FCS and with that I asked if
I was fired,which I was told no,that I was being 'let
go'. I asked about the Harper Collins Pub. as well and
she said that Zondervan is a Chrisitian company and
that they (Zondervan) still are there to help
Christians everywhere. I asked but what about the
satanic bibles and was told that Zondervan is
Christian. I stated that Zondervan was owned by Harper
Collins Pub. and that meant that Harper Collins Pub. is
getting paid for both NIV bibles and satanic bibles
and was told this would be a correct statement but
that she did not know all of the answer BUT could find
out for me. As well she told me that Christian music
is under the other big names that put out all of this
stuff that we are so against and that is only because
this helps keeps the cost down. I am hurt,I am
shocked,and I am scared. I have looked away and turned
my back and now look at us. We are giving money to
people who put out satanic bibles along with NIV
translations.
I may have (which I feel I did lose)
lost my job because I stood up for what I believe in
and know what? I would do it again and I plan to make
sure that I tell everyone I know what I have learned
today. I am not perfect but I as well know that God
can work through me and use me to be His hands and
feet. I will serve a God that will protect me and
watch over me. I will serve a God that I know can and
will provide. I may meet people who don`t care to
listen but I will tell people who want to know.
May God bless you and keep faith;
John Wiser (Ex Member of
FCS #142)
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seebs
God Made Me A Skeptic
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Hmm. Given that the "Satanists" are essentially a joke religion (at least the ones whose "bible" you can buy in bookstores), I wouldn't worry much.
Personally, I'm all for publishers being willing to publish nonsense. Cockroaches run from light. "Black magic" is a lot cooler sounding if you've never seen how pathetic the books really are.
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How do modern translations translate those verses?
NASB, NIV, NKJV, ESV?
If they translate them homosexual then I doubt you
could claim that it is "generally accepted".
peace,
owen_rocks
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seebs
God Made Me A Skeptic
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I think the current translation is most often "cult prostitute". 1 Kings 14:23-24 or so, you can look it up all over. My wife's RSV says "male cult prostitutes", which are a kind of "abomination", were driven out.
If you want to read hundreds of pages of exegesis on this, just do web searches on "qadesh".
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The original 1611 KJV also had marginal notes specifying alternate readings or "other ancient manuscripts" type thing. Look for a facsimile of early editions some time.
My choice wasn't really there either -- I don't think any translation is "the best" or the perfect translation, including the KJV. Biblical scholarship, translation theory, Greek and Hebrew knowledge, and manuscript criticism has advanced so much in the 400 years since the KJV that new versions are necessary.
-Chris
My choice wasn't really there either -- I don't think any translation is "the best" or the perfect translation, including the KJV. Biblical scholarship, translation theory, Greek and Hebrew knowledge, and manuscript criticism has advanced so much in the 400 years since the KJV that new versions are necessary.
-Chris
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Hi Seebs:
I found 5 references to Sodomites in the KJV (I think
I have a version from 1700's).
Dt 23:17, 1 Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:46, and 2 Kings 23:7
I checked with the ESV (published recently). In the
Dt. passage it translates it "cult prostitute". In
the others it has "male cult prostitute".
peace,
owen_rocks
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seebs
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Yup. That's because the Dt one prohibits both male and female ones.
So, unless we conclude that the word "sodomite" should mean "male cult prostitute", that's probably a simple factual error of translation in the KJV.
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In reference to the KJV, one thing that has puzzled me for a number of years, regards the translation of agape in
I Cor. 13 as "charity" instead of "love".
They translate agape as "love" in about 150 other places in the New Testament (Rom 8:35 for example). "Charity" appears around 20 times (not sure if each instance is agape or not).
If anybody knows why I'd be interested in hearing.
peace,
owen_rocks
I Cor. 13 as "charity" instead of "love".
They translate agape as "love" in about 150 other places in the New Testament (Rom 8:35 for example). "Charity" appears around 20 times (not sure if each instance is agape or not).
If anybody knows why I'd be interested in hearing.
peace,
owen_rocks
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seebs
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I dunno, but I think it's often a much *better* translation in this case. Charity is a better description than "love" for most readers, because it's less likely to get confused; there's fewer kinds of charity than kinds of love.
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Very interesting. Here is how Websters 1828 (or thereabouts) dictionary defines Charity:
Charity
CHARITY, n.
1. In a general sense, love, benevolence, good will; that disposition of heart which inclines men to think favorably of their fellow men to think favorably of their fellow men, and to do them good. In a theological sense, it includes supreme love to God, and universal good will to men.
1 Cor 8. Col 3. 1 Tim 1.
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