Kent Hovind

[JayArr]

Hovind has come to the attention of the extreme left, in the form of a news article posted at the radical left website, Indymedia.org.
The indymedia news article praises Hovind's articles supporting various 9-11 conspiracy theories, but also calls him a "religious right extremist" and implies that he has caved in to political pressure by de-emphasizing his 9-11 conspiracy articles.
Warning:The Indymedia "newswire" section, where the Hovind story appears, contains offensive (especially anti-Semitic) language. The story itself is clean and actually fairly well-written, in the familiar style of Marxian rhetoric.

 

[elephanticity]

Originally posted by BigJon
#1 I've read some of this "anti-hovind" stuff and it seems to be more personal attacs on him rather than his material

Works for me. I'm not saying that there is no point in creationism because Hovind is an idiot. I'm saying Hovind is an idiot.

I encourage questioning evolution, questioning creationism. Find out from your own research. But if you tell someone 'I read it in the National Inquirer' they have a certain lack of trust in your material because of the source. It's the same with KH. His information is unsupported, his stories are unverified, his science is shoddy or just plain made up.

He lies, he exaggerates, and makes a strange deal about the number of pages in his thesis. The thesis he keeps updating...which isn't kosher.
If you wanna reseach creationism, there are a lot of places more reputable that him. If you wanna learn about moose habits, you don't research Bullwinkle. Taking his reports just because you agree with his conclusions isn't terribly smart.

 

[BigJon]

Originally posted by elephanticity
Works for me. I'm not saying that there is no point in creationism because Hovind is an idiot. I'm saying Hovind is an idiot.

calling people an idiot because you dont like there message, it only proves one thing, your wrong and you know it.

99% of the people who believe evolution or anything close to it only do because it is the only way that man can be a superior being. The other 1% is just plain dumb.

Hovind is more common sense than anything, and people who study there field hate to be showed up by obvious things, its like if a 25 yr was tryin to pound a square block through a round hole and a little 5 yr said hey watch this then puts the square block through the square hole, same here. Hovind uses common sense things to destroy evolutionists life work and they hate him for it.

 

[ardipithecus]

Originally posted by BigJon


calling people an idiot because you dont like there message, it only proves one thing, your wrong and you know it.

99% of the people who believe evolution or anything close to it only do because it is the only way that man can be a superior being. The other 1% is just plain dumb.

Hovind is more common sense than anything, and people who study there field hate to be showed up by obvious things, its like if a 25 yr was tryin to pound a square block through a round hole and a little 5 yr said hey watch this then puts the square block through the square hole, same here. Hovind uses common sense things to destroy evolutionists life work and they hate him for it.

I don't know if Hovind is an idiot or not. Sometimes dogma can make otherwise sensible people do stupid things though If I was forced to put money down I would say that unless he is an outright fraud, he is an idiot.

Have you every looked up any of his references? Have you checked any of his facts? Do so and you will see what we mean. This man has a hard time getting out a paragraph without having a clear error in fact. To anyone even remotely educated in science there are many screamingly obvious errors. He claims that sunflower cytochrome c is the closest cytochrome c to humans. False statement. He claims that "Dawn Horse" is really a hyrax. This is laughable if you compare the two. He also says hyraxes are from South America which is false. He blames the "Trail of Tears" (1830s) on evolution in spite of the obvious anachronism. He claims that a single mammoth had different parts give very different radiocarbon dates and yet his reference makes no such claim. He continues to make the claim though he has read the debunking of it mentioning that his reference says no such thing. He actually chided the debunkers telling them, in effect, to look up the reference he gave. He wrote "I decided the more chromosomes you have, the more complex you must be because it is the most complex molecule in the universe; and so I arranged a bunch of animals and plants in order based upon the number of chromosomes they had." And then chided scientists for Redwood, kidney bean, and oppossum having the same number of chromosomes in one of the most silly arguments I have ever seen. Donkey milk closest to human mild? How about ". What they don’t tell the kids is that the so-called Eohippus, the ancient horse, had 18 pairs of ribs, the next one had 15 pairs of ribs, the next one after that had 19 pairs, the next one after that had 18 pairs. The rib number changes back and forth. Well, that’s kind of interesting!" Why does evolutionary theory predict that change in rib number only goes one way? No one even remotely familiar with evolutionary biology would say that. Also "How is that critter going to survive?" Gee the same way humans who don't have the normal number of ribs do, just fine.


He also also publically endorsed anti-semetic literature.

By his own account he has spent almost $100,000 fighting a $50 citation on the preposterous grounds the building codes don't apply to churches. This is that man who you claim has common sense. If the National Center for Science Education ever showed that kind of "sense" I would never give them a penny of my money again -- even if they were in the right.


Oh year, for years he been claiming that people have been buying groceries by scanning their hands!

Then there silly arguments. He calculates that Niagra
Falls can't be all that old from its current motion. Then he calls it proof that the Earth itself is young. An honest person with common sense would figure out that the Earth might be older than any particular feature.

Or how about his 250,000 challenge. He gets to decide if the proof is worthy to be judged. If it is it goes to the judges that he appointed (and will not say who they are either). He refuse to provide proof the money actually exists. This is clearly not a real offer.

 

[chickenman]

kent hovind is a moron, that is all

 

[elephanticity]

Originally posted by BigJon


calling people an idiot because you dont like there message, it only proves one thing, your wrong and you know it.

99% of the people who believe evolution or anything close to it only do because it is the only way that man can be a superior being. The other 1% is just plain dumb.

Hovind is more common sense than anything, and people who study there field hate to be showed up by obvious things, its like if a 25 yr was tryin to pound a square block through a round hole and a little 5 yr said hey watch this then puts the square block through the square hole, same here. Hovind uses common sense things to destroy evolutionists life work and they hate him for it.

I don't like creationism. I don't like moving from doctrine backwards to evidence. I don't like scientists signing a statement of faith that limits their research to already-approved tenets of faith. (If i told you to go see the sky color, and it could be any color between red and yellow, what would you report?)

But, i don't call AIG or any other creationist organization idiots. I specifically separated Hovind from others because he is a Grand Moron.

I accept the proof for evolution because i trust the scientific method. Hovind shows no appreciation for, or adherence to, that method. Hovind couldn't destroy my life's work, and i am not threatened by him. But, if someone is asking about him, i will give my honest opinion.

His 'common sense' you applaud had him present the Onyate Man April Fools Day Joke as a promising new fact, with little or no research. As it only existed on an obviously fraudulent website, i'd have to say NO research.

Since you're so fond of analogies, if there is a playground, and the evolutionists are the kids finding pegs in the dirt, and creationists are the kids also finding pegs, but throwing out any that don't fit round holes, Hovind is the one holding an empty board, talking about pegs that are semicircular, and fit three different holes at the same time.

If I'm calling him an idiot because i don't like his message, why so you suppose you are calling people dumb? Is it because you are wrong and you know it?

I don't understand how you can say that I think evolution makes man superior? I thought the big fundamentalist opposition to evolution is that it makes us just another animal? Where do you get your ideas on evolution? "Dr." Clown Hovind?

 

[RufusAtticus]

What I want to know is how Hovind justified his participation in the Arkansas government when he thinks that all government is illegitimate?

 

[newworldcrusader]

Originally posted by BigJon

#2 Mr. Hovind is not out to discover any new ground breaking info, just to share the facts that are already know with people who dont know them. [/B]

That is correct!

 

[BigJon]

Ok for all those who dont understand I will type slowly and use small words.

Kent Hovind's message that I stand behind is the following:
#1 God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days.
#2 Evolution is:
a. false
b. Is 100% against God
c. it's purpose is to make man unaccountable to God
d. is a belief system, not science
e. it is a religion

Now if you wish to nit pick his entire existance to find "dirt" so you can say hes a moron, idiot or whatever well thats not the dicussion.

The simple truth is evolution is wrong, it was created to delete God from the big picture making man unaccountable to him. Thats common sense, thats what Hovind's message is.

Evolution vs. Creation is just fancy for the devil vs. God, good vs. evil and so on.

With Creation the following is true:
#1 there is a God
#2 He is in charge of all
#3 He can do wonderous things
#4 since He created us then we are accountable unto Him.
#5 Our life has a purpose, it is to serve Him
#6 Since God is perfect then we are unperfect
#7 there is a right and wrong

with evolution the following is true:
#1 there is no God
#2 were are here because of an accidental bang
#3 our lives have no purpose, we are just worthless masses
#4 there is no such thing as right or wrong

Sounds like Hovind has it right, He follows God and his plan rather than the worthless option of the world.

 

[Jerry Smith]

BigJon,

Hang around this forum for a while. There is a lot of interesting discussion here. I would like to make a couple of comments about your post. The first is that evolution isn't against God. Evolution doesn't say "who" made you, it just says how you were made. There are a lot of fine Christians who do not reject the science of evolution.

Now, about Kent Hovind: I'm sorry. The man is very dishonest. He is being dishonest every time he puts "Dr." in front of his name. He is being dishonest when he throws out "facts" that have been proven wrong twenty or thirty years ago as evidence for his case.

The creationist side doesn't need a dishonest spokesman. If the case for anti-evolutionism is strong, it doesn't need lies to support it. There are plenty of creationists out there who do not intentionally mislead their audiences. Hovind is not the only one who does intentionally mislead people, but the liars do not have a monopoly on creationism. As many here will point out to you: if you want a creationist perspective that is honest, go to answersingenesis.org ...

 

[BigJon]

The first is that evolution isn't against God. Evolution doesn't say "who" made you, it just says how you were made. There are a lot of fine Christians who do not reject the science of evolution.[/B]

ok #1 evolution is not science
#2 true Christians would never believe anything other than the bible which is directly contrary to what evolution says
#3 if God didn't create us, and we are here because of a big bang then why in the world would you serve / follow him??????

and about Hovind.... I stand with him on the above mentioned items, other than that its everyman for him self as far as I'm concerned, I dont read every detail of his life so I cant tell you wether he is a perfect role model or not, however, I've seen his video set on evolution vs creation and i agree 100% with his message in them, which is what i posted in my earlier comment.

 

[Jerry Smith]

#1 evolution is not science

I'm sorry. It is.

#2 true Christians would never believe anything other than the bible which is directly contrary to what evolution says

a. Your interpretation of the Bible is directly contrary to what evolution says. Others have different (and possibly better) interpretations.
b. I thought true Christians were believers who accepted the gospel message of saving grace through Christ. Why can they not believe anything other than the Bible, as long as they are beleivers who accept salvation through Jesus?

#3 if God didn't create us, and we are here because of a big bang then why in the world would you serve / follow him??????

Who said God didn't create us? Evolution talks about how we were created, not who created us.

and about Hovind.... I stand with him on the above mentioned items, other than that its everyman for him self as far as I'm concerned, I dont read every detail of his life so I cant tell you wether he is a perfect role model or not, however, I've seen his video set on evolution vs creation and i agree 100% with his message in them, which is what i posted in my earlier comment.

"By their fruits you shall know them." - Matthew 7:16 Hovind is consistently dishonest in word and deed. His agenda may be compatible with Christianity, but it is not compatible with honesty.

 

[BigJon]

ok people lets put our thinking caps on...........

The bible says we were created by God, and if you look at tad bit harder you will notice God created Adam from the dust of the ground and Eve from Adam's rib, and common sense would lead us to believe that the rest of us came from the process of reproduction. Ok that just blew holes in your ship of God used evolution to create us theory and so now it shall proceed to sink.

Heres another note, the word "Christian" is greatly misused not only here but in many places, a Christian is the following: one who follows Jesus Christ and His teachings, 100%. Now if im not mistaken your entertaining theories that God used evolution to create man, doesnt seem very Christ like to me, doubting the abilities of God, thats someing I would dare not do.

 

[mac_philo]

Originally posted by BigJon
ok people lets put our thinking caps on...........

The bible says we were created by God, and if you look at tad bit harder you will notice God created Adam from the dust of the ground and Eve from Adam's rib, and common sense would lead us to believe that the rest of us came from the process of reproduction. Ok that just blew holes in your ship of God used evolution to create us theory and so now it shall proceed to sink.

Heres another note, the word "Christian" is greatly misused not only here but in many places, a Christian is the following: one who follows Jesus Christ and His teachings, 100%. Now if im not mistaken your entertaining theories that God used evolution to create man, doesnt seem very Christ like to me, doubting the abilities of God, thats someing I would dare not do.

On the contrary, it is you who doubt the power of God.

Creating man from scratch is a trivial joke compared to creating an environment that would cause man to evolve.

Humans could conceivable do something quite similar to the former, though we could not do the latter. It's conceivable that we could create an artifically intelligent being; inconceivably that we could handle a project that would take millions of years.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by BigJon
ok people lets put our thinking caps on...........

'k, but mine looks really silly, so I'm gonna spend a few moments thanking God that I haven't gotten around to setting up a webcam yet.

The bible says we were created by God, and if you look at tad bit harder you will notice God created Adam from the dust of the ground and Eve from Adam's rib, and common sense would lead us to believe that the rest of us came from the process of reproduction. Ok that just blew holes in your ship of God used evolution to create us theory and so now it shall proceed to sink.

Hmm. Really? Doesn't seem to have blown any holes in my belief, because I never for a moment thought that was literal. I believe in a concept called "allegory", and another concept called "metaphor".

So, for instance, when someone says that Heaven is 50 times brighter than earth, I don't conclude that it's precisely 550 degrees centigrade, because that's a very silly interpretation; rather, I take it to mean that heaven is more vibrant and colorful than earth.

Heres another note, the word "Christian" is greatly misused not only here but in many places, a Christian is the following: one who follows Jesus Christ and His teachings, 100%. Now if im not mistaken your entertaining theories that God used evolution to create man, doesnt seem very Christ like to me, doubting the abilities of God, thats someing I would dare not do.

I think the word "Christian" means someone who accepts the Nicene Creed. I don't see where that creed prohibits the belief that God is allowed to use subcontractors.

Look, if someone says "I build houses", was he lying if it turns out he's an architect who owns a building firm, and they use subcontractors, and he's never picked up a hammer in his life? Of *COURSE* not - he takes action, and a house is made.

The Bible is full of metaphor and allegory. It contains statements which, if taken literally, contradict things you can go and observe yourself.

The God I believe in is so amazing that He is able to create a universe so complicated that, with all we have today, we can only *begin* to glimpse its depths. He is able to create a few simple laws from which it *inevitably* follows that there exists a series of three billion or so molecules with the interesting quality that they can serve as the recipe for making a creature which can walk, talk, and learn to appreciate beauty.

*THAT* is a miracle.

 

[BigJon]

wishy washy so called christians make me sick.

also, everyone is not right in there own special way, there are those out there who do err in there thinking, given no one is perfect and I would never claim that i am, but those who have found the truth must spread it, and stop those who dont know it from perishing from there mistakes.

 

[mac_philo]

Originally posted by BigJon
wishy washy so called christians make me sick.

Is there any topic on earth about which you aren't 100% certain your opinion is divinely supported?

Or are you the final arbiter of all matters?

Also, you're saying that the majority of christians make you sick, since the majority believe in evolution.
Maybe you should find a new team.

 

[BigJon]

also while im at it, when God said 6 days it was 6 days, when God said dust it was dust, point blank, creation is not and never will be an allegory or metaphor for evolution.

 

[BigJon]

Originally posted by mac_philo


Is there any topic on earth about which you aren't 100% certain your opinion is divinely supported?

Or are you the final arbiter of all matters?

Also, you're saying that the majority of christians make you sick, since the majority believe in evolution.
Maybe you should find a new team.

I can pretty much back up everything i say on here with the bible, and I also do believe that the majority of christians truely are not. Believing in evolution would be enough to throw out any so called christian label.

 

[mac_philo]

Originally posted by BigJon


I can pretty much back up everything i say on here with the bible, and I also do believe that the majority of christians truely are not. Believing in evolution would be enough to throw out any so called christian label.

I disagree, but if that's true, we're watching the death throes of the religion. It will soon be gone.