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Keeping Sabbath not in effect

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by friend of, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The 4th commandment (3rd in Catholicism) is no longer in effect in the same way it was during OT times. We are no longer to slavishly observe Sunday or Saturday or any other day designated by church authority, for Christ is all and in all. Each day is Holy gift of God and should be lived as such, as we await the coming day of His glorious Revelation. Demanding people observe a certain day (as is the case of SDA) are in error.

    Romans 14:5-6
    Galatians 4:8-12
    Colossians 2:16-17

    Christ is our Sabbath rest and all we need.

    Hebrews 4:17-34

    Discuss this controversial subject.
     
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  2. Otm_Shank

    Otm_Shank New Member

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    I really like the point you stated about each day being a Holy gift of God. I agree that in a perfect faith world, we would treat every day as though we are in blessed communion with God.

    Unfortunately with the way the modern world is structured where we are working five days a week (sometimes even more) and pursuing false idols like money and status...having one day a week to at least try and put all that aside to rest in God's presence and worship Him...is an incredible blessing.

    When I was an uncaring atheist, I used to make fun of my dad for converting to Christianity simply because he didn't want to do exhausting and mentally humiliating military training when he was conscripted into the South Korean Army just decades after the Korean War. If you were Christian, you could get Sunday off. Now, as a far more mature Christian...I think this is just a mere slice of the greater joy that Sunday represents
     
  3. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    The earliest Christians met on Sunday, to commemorate the day Christ rose from the dead. They met in the morning on Sundays for worship, and prayer, often very, very early in the morning, at sun rise.

    This practice of meeting and worshipping on Sunday is very, very old. If at all possible, we should rest from work on Sunday, and spend the day with Christ.
     
  4. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Not so. Not until after 135 ad Bar Kochba revolt did Sunday meetings happen.

    Now if you are referring to Acts 20 - that is clearly a Havdalah service which started at twilight Saturday evening. As soon as the sun goes down it becomes the First Day in Jewish reckoning.
     
  5. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Of course it is.

    Exodus 31:17
    It [Sabbath] is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.​

    If you think there is anything "slavish" about the Sabbath, you have been sorely misinformed. It is a DELIGHT.
     
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Some choose to keep the 7th day Sabbath ... some don't .... and not just SDA's (and for some reason you decided to specifically make them the example)?

    Yes, they (SDA) believe in keeping the 7th day Sabbath and put forth their reasons for doing so. So what?

    So .. people who keep Sunday put forth their reasons for doing so? So what?

    So ... you put forth we should worship God every day ... and this is true ... what day organized churches choose to have corporate worship ... is up to their beliefs ... and those differ ... so what?

    so let each be convinced in his own mind.

    Romans 14

    5One man regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes a special day does so to the Lord; he who eats does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

    7For none of us lives to himself alone, and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

    10Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:

    “As surely as I live, says the Lord,
    every knee will bow before Me;
    every tongue will confess to God.”

    12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

    If one does searches in the forums there are tons and tons of conversation on the subject.
     
  7. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree. That was aimed more at people who are making it out to be a big deal if a day is missed, counting it as sin.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  8. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hebrews 4:1-10

    We enter into that rest by Faith in Christ.
     
  9. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Stealth Defender Of Holy Writ Supporter

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    “If because of the Sabbath, you turn your foot
    From doing your own pleasure on My holy day,
    And call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable,
    And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
    From seeking your own pleasure
    And speaking your own word,

    Then you will take delight in the LORD,
    And I will make you ride on the heights of the earth;
    And I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father,
    For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”
    (Isaiah 58:13)


    Or you can:

    That is, if that's what you think Romans 15 (which mentions the Sabbath not once) is actually addressing.

    And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
    (Joshua 24:15)
     
  10. RexColin

    RexColin New Member

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    Please educate me as to what specific scriptures there are (non-speculative) that says God has removed the 4th commandment from his book of eternal Laws? Something concrete please, not abstract. For example these are concrete absolute scriptures;
    Exo 20:6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
    Deu 5:10 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
    Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
    Do you have anything in scripture that would contradict these given from God/Jesus at Sinai and 1500 years later The God that is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow said it at the Last Supper in Jerusalem.
     
  11. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's OT? A few of the scriptures I posted specifically say not to judge another brother or sister based on what days they percieve as being Holy. That each should be convinced in their own mind.
     
  12. RexColin

    RexColin New Member

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    But your claim is about sabbath being done away with, not judging? So again, what scripture do you have NT or OT that says the sabbath has been done away with in concrete absolute statement.

    I will personally remove my tzit tzits and kiss the Law goodbye if you can show me where God/Jesus or an apostle in bible says, do not observe sabbath? In fact, the catholic Church admits the bible does not say it, that in fact they decided to change it to Sunday in order to not be recognized with the Jews, and admit it to be only valid as and I quote "church tradition" in the catechism. So the ones who changed it to Sunday say that it is not in the bible, that it was changed as church tradition.

    Btw, in fact the scripture you are implying is if you read the CHAPTER in Colossians is in reference to not allowing others (pagans) to Judge them (believers) for observing Sabbath, not about doing away with sabbath. Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. context context context...
     
  13. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So if a Christian works on a Sunday in 2019 are they sinning? (In your opinion) just wondering. I say no.
     
  14. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The example from the New Testament you have posted doesn't have a "10" before commandments. You won't find one that does. Why are you taking the liberty to change scripture to support your belief system? Furthermore, 2Cor 3:6-11 does exactly what you asked. You, like others will try to change the meaning of those verses, but you cannot take away the fact that Paul said they are done away. Israel's guide was the 10 commandments, Our guide is the Holy Spirit living within us not on tables of cold stones that stopped radiating long ago.

    6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

    7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

    8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

    9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

    10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

    11 For if that which is done away was glorious much more that which remaineth is glorious.

    The Sinai covenant was an "if" covenant. See Ex19:5-6 It was "everlasting as long as Israel lived up to their end of the bargain. That covenant lasted until the new covenant replaced it ar Calvary where Jesus ratified the new one with His own blood.

    His ambassador, Paul, said it and I believe it.

    The new covenant is not the old one warmed over. It is truly new, a better covenant with better promises. It is not a bunch of rituals Israel had to observe and how to live in Canaan. It is about eternal life and how to live in order to spend eternity in our new home.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  15. RexColin

    RexColin New Member

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    what is your definition of sin? This is my definition:
    1Jn 3:4-10 NASB Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. (5) You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. (6) No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (7) Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; (8) the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (9) No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (10) By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
    If that is also your definition of sin, then by working on Sunday is not a breaking the Law of God (lawlessness). But, if you do work on the Sabbath (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown), and you abide in what John speaks of as "Sin is Lawlessness" as sin, then by definition you are sinning. Sinner in Hebrew is the word for criminal, so to be a criminal you must break a Law.
     
  16. RexColin

    RexColin New Member

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    First the word sabbath nor Law was not mentioned in any of the scripture you just quoted in order to validate the Law as done away with. That was easy.... 2nd you seem to be misled in what the commandments of Jesus are, so let me help you out a little here in that.

    God gave Moses all his COMMANDMENTS at Sinai, correct?
    God Divorced the Northern Kingdom (Israel) for breaking his commandments, correct?
    End of Covenant between God and Israel, correct?
    He showed Mercy to Southern Kingdom (Judah) because of his promise to David and did NOT divorce Judah, correct?
    God then made a promise to Israel that he would personally call them back to him to be his bride one day in a New Covenant, correct?
    Now the Law states that a Husband can not remarry a wife, correct?
    Was Israel the Bride whom he divorced?
    Then How can God break his on Law to again remarry Israel in a New Covenant?
    So in order to remarry Israel, the husband (God) must die in order that the provision of the Law be lifted, correct?
    Can you think of any event in which the Lawgiver at Sinai died?
    Did he rise from the grave?
    Can he now remarry Israel?
    Does that mean Israel can break the law that caused the divorce to begin with?
    Is Israel the bride of Christ?
    So if you break the Law, are you the Bride of Christ?
    Is Jesus God? Yes
    Did he die for your sin?
    did he die so you can keep sinning?
    lawlessness is what?
    is sabbath a commandment that Jesus gave his Bride?
    As his Bride, should you observe it?
    Did Jesus give his bride the Law?
    As his Bride under the New Covenant which states the Law will be written on their hearts, should you obey his Law?
    will anyone no a Bride of Christ have eternity with Christ?
     
  17. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    So, "demanding" people observe Sunday is also in error?
     
  18. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on the Church/the body of Christ in the New Testament.

    *Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

    Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath day, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

    If keeping the Sabbath day is still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19). *These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

    If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why don't Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he only keeps part of it? If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

    Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since the Church/the body of Christ does not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
     
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  19. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Stealth Defender Of Holy Writ Supporter

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    All those who wish to doubt will find no shortage of hooks upon which to hang them.
     
  20. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Stealth Defender Of Holy Writ Supporter

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    Do you mean this new home?

    “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
    (Isaiah 66:22-24)
     
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