Keeping Sabbath not in effect

[D.A. Wright]

As a creature owing all to God, the author of his existence, it is self-evident that man was under the highest obligation to love Him with all his heart. The existence of other human beings originates a second great obligation—to love our neighbor as ourselves. This precept is also one of self-evident obligation; for others are equally the creatures of God with ourselves, and have the same rights that we also have.

These two precepts are the sum of all moral law. And they grow out of the fact that we owe all to God, and that others are the creatures of God as well as ourselves.

In rendering obedience to the first of these two precepts, man could have no other gods before the Lord; nor could he worship idols; neither could he speak the name of God in an irreverent manner; nor could he neglect the hallowed rest-day of the Lord, which was set apart at creation in memory of the Creator’s rest. Equally evident is that our duty toward our fellow men comprehends our duty to our parents, and the strictest regard to the life, chastity, property, character and interests of others.

The moral law thus divided into two parts, and drawn out and expressed in ten precepts, is of necessity unchangeable in its character.

Its existence grows out of immutable relations which man sustains toward God, and toward his fellow man. It is God’s great standard of right, and after man’s rebellion, the great test by which sin is shown.

In the book of Exodus is found the law of God as given by himself in person, and written with his own finger on stone.

Indeed, the evidence indicates that no part of the Bible was written until after the ten commandments had been spoken and written by God, and consequently that code is the earliest writing in existence. Such was the origin of the moral law, and such the character of its precepts.

Its proclamation by God himself, prior to his causing any part of the Bible to be written sufficiently attests the estimate which he placed upon it.

From its very nature it exists as early as the principles of morality; indeed it is nothing but those principles expressed or written out. These principles do not owe their existence to the fall of man, but to relations which existed prior to the fall.

But there is a system of laws that does owe its origin to sin; a system that could have had no existence had not man become a transgressor. The violation of moral law was that which gave existence to the law of rites and ceremonies, the shadow of good things to come.

There could be no sacrifices for sin until man became a sinner. In Eden there could be no types and shadows pointing forward to future redemption through the death of Christ; for man in his uprightness needed no such redemption. Nor did God place upon man before his fall the obligation of carnal ordinances which look forward to the time of reformation; for man was innocent and free from guile. That it was the violation of moral law that caused the fall of man may be seen at a glance.

The motive set before Eve by Satan was that they should become as gods if they ate of that tree [Genesis 3]; and as Adam was not deceived [1 Timothy 2:13], it is evident that he chose to follow his wife rather than to obey the Lord; an open violation of the first commandment in each case.

When man had thus become a sinner, and God had promised the means of his redemption, a second relation toward God was brought into existence. Man was a sinner needing forgiveness, and God was a Saviour offering pardon. It is plain therefore that the typical law pointing forward to redemption through Christ owes its origin to man’s rebellion, and to God’s infinite benevolence.

If man had not sinned he would have needed no types of future redemption, and if God had not determined to give his Son to die he would have instituted no typical system pointing forward to that great event.

The existence of such a code therefore is in consequence of sin, its precepts are of a ceremonial nature, and its duration is necessarily limited by the Great Offering that could take away sin. From the fall of Adam till the time of Moses the typical system was gradually developed and matured; and from Moses’ time until the death of our Lord, it existed as a shadow of good things to come.

“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.
(Isaiah 66:22-23)

 

[RexColin]

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on the Church/the body of Christ in the New Testament.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath day, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If keeping the Sabbath day is still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19). *These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why don't Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he only keeps part of it? If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since the Church/the body of Christ does not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

I'm sorry to inform you, but you are teaching against what God desires of us as his people. I'm sure based on the case you made that this is something you were taught and did not learn for yourself from the bible itself. As was I once. First you actually quote a scripture of Paul referencing in contect not to allow the pagana to Judge believers for observing kosher, God's calendar and feasts, and sabbath days *Colossians 2:16. Second you have taken the Law and unlawfully presented it out of context without knowing how the Law is to be applied. For example, We know Jesus did not sin which means he did not break the Law (sin is lawlessness 1 John), yet Jesus was not stuck in his home on Sabbath. Did Jesus break the Sabbath? absolutely not. Nor did his Apostles, including Paul as recorded in NT. In fact their is not record in NT ever of any of his apostles breaking the Law with the exception of denial of him at crucifixion. remain in his place for Sabbath is in reference to not going out to pick up Mana, not in reference to total confinement to home for Sabbath, even though there is a stipulation to not travel far from home during Sabbath, in other word no road trips on sabbath. Nehemiah and Amos are referencing a certain time and event of unruly and dishonest merchants coming in to Jerusalem and disrupting the sanctity of Sabbath in the city, kind of like if foreigners bounced in to the Vatican and held Mardi Gras during Christmas. So they closed the Gates of the City to prevent outsiders from disrupting their Holy day with God. Major important point here; The commandments were and are for Israel, so is the New Covenant. In all of the BIble there is no recorded "GENTILE" covenant with God. So to participate in the New Covenant one must become a part of Israel, through Faith in Christ according to the Promise to Abraham. In which by submitting yourself to the King of Israel (Christ) you then become grafted in to the inheritance of Israel. Hence submitting to the Lawgiver and his Law. Lawless believers of Christ can no more be a part of the Kingdom of God than a terrorist can receive U.S. citizenship. This is why Jesus stated, If you love me, you will obey my commandments, re emphasizing when he said that to ISRAEL in Exodus and Deuteronomy while giving Moses the Book of the Law. This was Jesus stating emphatically that he is the God of Israel, by repeating what he said to Israel during the Exodus at Sinai. Then this was followed up by the Church Holy Convocation receiving the Holy Spirit on the exact same day he gave the Church Holy Convocation the Law at Sinai. Since the Church was not established at Pentecost, rather it was established with God as Israel at Sinai 50 days after passover. Hence why pentecost is attached as 49 days plus 1 day after Passover. The very day God Gave the Law that includes to work 6 days and on the 7th rest, observe Sabbath.

 

[Bob S]

First the word sabbath nor Law was not mentioned in any of the scripture you just quoted in order to validate the Law as done away with. That was easy....

Not so fast partner. Verse 7 tells us "if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:"
What could be engraven in stone that was glorious besides the 10 commandments of which the fourth one was the Sabbath command? Did Paul have to spell it out with each command? Was not the stones engraved with the fourth commandment???? What does it take to get you at least thinking what the verse means?

2nd you seem to be misled in what the commandments of Jesus are, so let me help you out a little here in that.

I know exactly what the commands of Jesus are and they are found in Jn 15, Matt 28:19-20, Luke 22:19 and 1Jn 3:19-24

God gave Moses all his COMMANDMENTS at Sinai, correct?
God Divorced the Northern Kingdom (Israel) for breaking his commandments, correct?
End of Covenant between God and Israel, correct?
He showed Mercy to Southern Kingdom (Judah) because of his promise to David and did NOT divorce Judah, correct?

Hold on there again my friend, my Bible tells me that the new covenant is:
Jere 31:31.......with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: I am not saying you are wrong about Israel losing the covenant that is a fact, but I am not familiar with Judah being spared because of David, Please explain further.

King James Version (KJV)
God then made a promise to Israel that he would personally call them back to him to be his bride one day in a New Covenant, correct?

Israel and Judah is correct.

Now the Law states that a Husband can not remarry a wife, correct?

As far as I know that is not correct. You have taken the liberty to try to interpret Hosea 2 I suspect. I did see something very interesting in Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts. That happened with the coming of the new covenant.

Was Israel the Bride whom he divorced?
Then How can God break his on Law to again remarry Israel in a New Covenant?
So in order to remarry Israel, the husband (God) must die in order that the provision of the Law be lifted, correct?
Can you think of any event in which the Lawgiver at Sinai died?
Did he rise from the grave?
Can he now remarry Israel?
Does that mean Israel can break the law that caused the divorce to begin with?
Is Israel the bride of Christ?
So if you break the Law, are you the Bride of Christ?
Is Jesus God? Yes
Did he die for your sin?
did he die so you can keep sinning?
lawlessness is what?
is sabbath a commandment that Jesus gave his Bride?
As his Bride, should you observe it?
Did Jesus give his bride the Law?
As his Bride under the New Covenant which states the Law will be written on their hearts, should you obey his Law?
will anyone no a Bride of Christ have eternity with Christ?

As far as I am concerned you have not proven anything plus you have denied the meaning of 2Cor3:6-11

 

[Bob S]

As a creature owing all to God, the author of his existence, it is self-evident that man was under the highest obligation to love Him with all his heart. The existence of other human beings originates a second great obligation—to love our neighbor as ourselves. This precept is also one of self-evident obligation; for others are equally the creatures of God with ourselves, and have the same rights that we also have.

These two precepts are the sum of all moral law. And they grow out of the fact that we owe all to God, and that others are the creatures of God as well as ourselves.

In rendering obedience to the first of these two precepts, man could have no other gods before the Lord; nor could he worship idols; neither could he speak the name of God in an irreverent manner; nor could he neglect the hallowed rest-day of the Lord, which was set apart at creation in memory of the Creator’s rest. Equally evident is that our duty toward our fellow men comprehends our duty to our parents, and the strictest regard to the life, chastity, property, character and interests of others.

The moral law thus divided into two parts, and drawn out and expressed in ten precepts, is of necessity unchangeable in its character.

Its existence grows out of immutable relations which man sustains toward God, and toward his fellow man. It is God’s great standard of right, and after man’s rebellion, the great test by which sin is shown.

In the book of Exodus is found the law of God as given by himself in person, and written with his own finger on stone.

Indeed, the evidence indicates that no part of the Bible was written until after the ten commandments had been spoken and written by God, and consequently that code is the earliest writing in existence. Such was the origin of the moral law, and such the character of its precepts.

Its proclamation by God himself, prior to his causing any part of the Bible to be written sufficiently attests the estimate which he placed upon it.

From its very nature it exists as early as the principles of morality; indeed it is nothing but those principles expressed or written out. These principles do not owe their existence to the fall of man, but to relations which existed prior to the fall.

But there is a system of laws that does owe its origin to sin; a system that could have had no existence had not man become a transgressor. The violation of moral law was that which gave existence to the law of rites and ceremonies, the shadow of good things to come.

There could be no sacrifices for sin until man became a sinner. In Eden there could be no types and shadows pointing forward to future redemption through the death of Christ; for man in his uprightness needed no such redemption. Nor did God place upon man before his fall the obligation of carnal ordinances which look forward to the time of reformation; for man was innocent and free from guile. That it was the violation of moral law that caused the fall of man may be seen at a glance.

The motive set before Eve by Satan was that they should become as gods if they ate of that tree [Genesis 3]; and as Adam was not deceived [1 Timothy 2:13], it is evident that he chose to follow his wife rather than to obey the Lord; an open violation of the first commandment in each case.

When man had thus become a sinner, and God had promised the means of his redemption, a second relation toward God was brought into existence. Man was a sinner needing forgiveness, and God was a Saviour offering pardon. It is plain therefore that the typical law pointing forward to redemption through Christ owes its origin to man’s rebellion, and to God’s infinite benevolence.

If man had not sinned he would have needed no types of future redemption, and if God had not determined to give his Son to die he would have instituted no typical system pointing forward to that great event.

The existence of such a code therefore is in consequence of sin, its precepts are of a ceremonial nature, and its duration is necessarily limited by the Great Offering that could take away sin. From the fall of Adam till the time of Moses the typical system was gradually developed and matured; and from Moses’ time until the death of our Lord, it existed as a shadow of good things to come.

“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.
(Isaiah 66:22-23)

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Wait for a second Isaiah, you are about to write in Is 66 that after Sabbath service we will walk out and view the dead carcasses with the worms still eating away. So much for not remembering.

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

“Never again will there be in it an infant a hundred
will be considered accursed. nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Hold on again Isaiah. Sinners in Heaven? Death in Heaven? Something is fishy here Isaiah. You tell us one thing and we have gleaned elsewhere that we all will have eternal life. Who is correct? Will we really attend Sabbath worship and the go out and walk among the dead? Did Jesus come to this Earth to redeem man so that we might get another 100 years?

Do you mean this new home?

I hope not. See above.

 

[D.A. Wright]

Wait for a second Isaiah, you are about to write in Is 66 that after Sabbath service we will walk out and view the dead carcasses with the worms still eating away. So much for not remembering.

Hold on again Isaiah. Sinners in Heaven? Death in Heaven? Something is fishy here Isaiah. You tell us one thing and we have gleaned elsewhere that we all will have eternal life. Who is correct? Will we really attend Sabbath worship and the go out and walk among the dead? Did Jesus come to this Earth to redeem man so that we might get another 100 years?

Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
(2 Peter 3:14-18)

 

[RexColin]

Not so fast partner. Verse 7 tells us "if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:"
What could be engraven in stone that was glorious besides the 10 commandments of which the fourth one was the Sabbath command? Did Paul have to spell it out with each command? Was not the stones engraved with the fourth commandment???? What does it take to get you at least thinking what the verse means?


I know exactly what the commands of Jesus are and they are found in Jn 15, Matt 28:19-20, Luke 22:19 and 1Jn 3:19-24


Hold on there again my friend, my Bible tells me that the new covenant is:
Jere 31:31.......with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: I am not saying you are wrong about Israel losing the covenant that is a fact, but I am not familiar with Judah being spared because of David, Please explain further.


Israel and Judah is correct.

As far as I know that is not correct. You have taken the liberty to try to interpret Hosea 2 I suspect. I did see something very interesting in Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts. That happened with the coming of the new covenant.
As far as I am concerned you have not proven anything plus you have denied the meaning of 2Cor3:6-11

If you read in co text of Hosea, God is punishing Israel by taking away feasts, sacrifices, and sabbath because she (israrl) prostituted herself. He is not rewarding Istael, he is punishing Israel. Hosea 4:6 NASBS My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being My priest. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
So why would God punish Israel for forgetting his Laws by taking them away from his laws, then in New covenant say I am abrogating the Law for my people?

And as I have said before regarding 2 Corinthians 3:6 NASBS who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
That the Law does not save anyone seperate from Christ, for no man but one has kept the Law and found blameless. But it is in Christ as the Lawgiver that we are then to keep the Law. It is impossible to explain what you do not want to understand, impossible to convince what you do not want to believe. If that is where your heart towards God is, then so be it. You can explain to him how you spent your time studying his word to find loopholes in ways not to obey him. Not my problem.
Regarding having mercy on Judah for David's sake, the lineage of Christ goes back to David and the promise of a saviour coming from his lineage "scepter and staff will not depart the house of David". So when God divorced Israel, he did not divorce Judah because he promised David that the messiah would be his descendant. If not for that, God says in Jeremiah they (judah) adultered themself just as Israel had, but God will have mercy on them. So if God divorced Judah along with Israel, then God can not keep his promise to David regarding the messiah. And if that be the case, we would have all been screwed out of any atonement paying way for eternal life.

The new covenant is Jeremiah 31, and says also Jeremiah 31:33 NASBS "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Please not where the Law of God is regarding the New Covenant. If you are not his people who have his law written on our herrs them you are not Israel, and you can not have a new covenant unless you are Israel. Hence jesus saying: I have only come for the lost sheep of the house of Gentiles, judah, no.... only the house of Israel. To be apart of Israel you must st be in covenant with the creator, to be in covenant is to obey his law.

 

[Bob S]

If you read in co text of Hosea, God is punishing Israel by taking away feasts, sacrifices, and sabbath because she (israrl) prostituted herself. He is not rewarding Istael, he is punishing Israel. Hosea 4:6 NASBS My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being My priest. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
So why would God punish Israel for forgetting his Laws by taking them away from his laws, then in New covenant say I am abrogating the Law for my people?

And as I have said before regarding 2 Corinthians 3:6 NASBS who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
That the Law does not save anyone seperate from Christ, for no man but one has kept the Law and found blameless. But it is in Christ as the Lawgiver that we are then to keep the Law. It is impossible to explain what you do not want to understand, impossible to convince what you do not want to believe. If that is where your heart towards God is, then so be it. You can explain to him how you spent your time studying his word to find loopholes in ways not to obey him. Not my problem.
Regarding having mercy on Judah for David's sake, the lineage of Christ goes back to David and the promise of a saviour coming from his lineage "scepter and staff will not depart the house of David". So when God divorced Israel, he did not divorce Judah because he promised David that the messiah would be his descendant. If not for that, God says in Jeremiah they (judah) adultered themself just as Israel had, but God will have mercy on them. So if God divorced Judah along with Israel, then God can not keep his promise to David regarding the messiah. And if that be the case, we would have all been screwed out of any atonement paying way for eternal life.

The new covenant is Jeremiah 31, and says also Jeremiah 31:33 NASBS "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Please not where the Law of God is regarding the New Covenant. If you are not his people who have his law written on our herrs them you are not Israel, and you can not have a new covenant unless you are Israel. Hence jesus saying: I have only come for the lost sheep of the house of Gentiles, judah, no.... only the house of Israel. To be apart of Israel you must st be in covenant with the creator, to be in covenant is to obey his law.

I see that you will not address the body of 2Cor3:6-11. You know, where it tells us that the 10 commandments have been done away (KJV) and we now have the Holy Spirit as our guide.

You tell us we have to obey the old covenant even though it has been replaced with the new one. Do you really obey all of the laws of the old covenant? Are your sideburns long because you refrain from cutting them? Do you tear down your home because there is mold in it? Do you, if you raise crops and or livestock tithe them to the Levites. On the Sabbath do you refrain from using your car, do any cooking, keep your thoughts on nothing but holy things, same when you talk to others. You tell others that they have to "Keep" the Sabbath and not to do their own pleasure and yet every one of you Sabbath triers fail and you know it. I thank my Savior that He has given us a new covenant that does not have a bunch of rituals like the old one, rituals that no one except Jesus has ever been able to meet the requirements. I praise the Lord that we are under the covenant of Grace and not the ministry that brought death, the ones written on stone.

 

[RexColin]

I see that you will not address the body of 2Cor3:6-11. You know, where it tells us that the 10 commandments have been done away (KJV) and we now have the Holy Spirit as our guide.

You tell us we have to obey the old covenant even though it has been replaced with the new one. Do you really obey all of the laws of the old covenant? Are your sideburns long because you refrain from cutting them? Do you tear down your home because there is mold in it? Do you, if you raise crops and or livestock tithe them to the Levites. On the Sabbath do you refrain from using your car, do any cooking, keep your thoughts on nothing but holy things, same when you talk to others. You tell others that they have to "Keep" the Sabbath and not to do their own pleasure and yet every one of you Sabbath triers fail and you know it. I thank my Savior that He has given us a new covenant that does not have a bunch of rituals like the old one, rituals that no one except Jesus has ever been able to meet the requirements. I praise the Lord that we are under the covenant of Grace and not the ministry that brought death, the ones written on stone.

I have addressed 2cor 3:6-11, but you think you know better, so run with it if ya like. BUt you put words in my mouth saying I say to obey the Old Covenant though it is replaced with the New Covenant, which I do not and can not since you presume a covenant is laws. Law and Covenant are not the same, one is a contract between two parties, the other is rules that can be a part of a contract. you can have five, six, twelve hundreds, etc.. covenants with one law. What I am telling you is this according to the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31, you can not have salvation without the Law of God. You can not have salvation without atonement for breaking the law in order to be restored to a covenant, hence the death of Jesus as atonement for our sins. Jesus made atonement, to ratify the New Covenant and restore his Law, so that we might be saved. You can not be saved if you only have atonement of Christ, then break the Law. As clearly defined in the ebtire BIble, OT and NT, it clearly say you must repent unto forgiveness (step 1) receive atonement (step 2 given through Christ), obey the Law of God (step 3). The only way to obey the Law as defined by scripture is to submit your will, desires, and effort to Christ as a death of the old creation, then mimic, replicate, duplicate his will and existence in our life as a Temple for God/Jesus... Stopping at the sinners prayer does not give us eternity, in fact that is just the beginning of walking in faith in Christ, one must finish the race, persevere to the end to be saved. Need I say more

 

[Bob S]

I have addressed 2cor 3:6-11, but you think you know better, so run with it if ya like.

I must have missed where you addressed those verses. Please give me the post numbers where you addressed those verses.

BUt you put words in my mouth saying I say to obey the Old Covenant though it is replaced with the New Covenant, which I do not and can not since you presume a covenant is laws. Law and Covenant are not the same, one is a contract between two parties, the other is rules that can be a part of a contract.

Please do not act as though you didn't know exactly what I meant. You obey try to obey the laws of the Sinai covenant, but avoid answering my questions to you about some of those laws. I assume you cut your sideburns so you are ignoring God's command that you tell us we have to uphold. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander.

you can have five, six, twelve hundreds, etc.. covenants with one law. What I am telling you is this according to the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31, you can not have salvation without the Law of God. You can not have salvation without atonement for breaking the law in order to be restored to a covenant, hence the death of Jesus as atonement for our sins.

You then cannot keep cutting your sideburns and expect atonement from Jesus. You are assuming that the laws of the Sinai covenant have somehow morphed into being the laws that Christians are under. That is a complete falsehood. The new covenant has new laws within it. Jesus told us He kept the laws of the Sinai covenant and asks us to keep the laws that He has given us. Jn15 Do you not comprehend His words?

Jesus made atonement, to ratify the New Covenant and restore his Law, so that we might be saved.

That is a complete misnomer that is not found in the New Testament.

You can not be saved if you only have atonement of Christ, then break the Law.

HUH???

As clearly defined in the ebtire BIble, OT and NT, it clearly say you must repent unto forgiveness (step 1) receive atonement (step 2 given through Christ), obey the Law of God (step 3). The only way to obey the Law as defined by scripture is to submit your will, desires, and effort to Christ as a death of the old creation, then mimic, replicate, duplicate his will and existence in our life as a Temple for God/Jesus... Stopping at the sinners prayer does not give us eternity, in fact that is just the beginning of walking in faith in Christ, one must finish the race, persevere to the end to be saved. Need I say more

Yes, you do need to reconsider that statement. If that statement is true Heaven is a deserted place.
1Jn3:
19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us.
----------------------------------------------------------
I serve a God that picks me up when I fail no matter how many times.

 

[RexColin]

And I serve a God that teaches me how to walk in his ways and not to keep falling. I certain I am going to stick to learning to walk in his ways, rather than learning to keep falling and getting picked up then. I'll certainly say these are enlightening conversations. I've addressed everything you brought up, I can't address them with how you want them to be if that manner of addressing them is manipulating or lying to you.

 

[Bob S]

And I serve a God that teaches me how to walk in his ways and not to keep falling. I certain I am going to stick to learning to walk in his ways, rather than learning to keep falling and getting picked up then.

I admire you for wanting to have a relationship with Jesus that will keep you from sinning. The fact is that without the blood of Jesus covering our sins we could never achieve your set goals We are born with a sinful nature and we will continue to sin throughout this life. Only Jesus and the Holy Spirit are able to keep us from falling and failing and present us before God as righteous.

Walking in Jesus way does not mean that we have to observe the old covenant laws as Jesus explains to us in Jn15. We walk in His way when we believe in Him and love others as He loves us.

I'll certainly say these are enlightening conversations. I've addressed everything you brought up, I can't address them with how you want them to be if that manner of addressing them is manipulating or lying to you.

You may have and I didn't get it. I didn't suppose that you would address Paul's writings to suit how I believe, I only ask you to show me where you addressed 2Cor3:6-11. Is that really too much to ask? If I were trying to tell others of my beliefs I would certainly jump at the chance to explain why you believe we are under the 10 commandment laws.

 

[RexColin]

blood of Jesus covering our sins

Since you claim this, do you even know what it means. Like there is a literal meaning to this passage that folks claim it like a magic wand that negates any responsiblity to obey the Law , yet, ironically enough it a law itself that God uses according to the Law to save us from the curse of death. So folks that don't think the Law is valid now use a law tha Moses gave to claim freedom from it. That's like saying I can use the money from a bank robbery to pay bond for that robbery. Does anyone in this forum that is advocating the Law is done away with actually know what the law says?

 

[D.A. Wright]

The example from the New Testament you have posted doesn't have a "10" before commandments. You won't find one that does. Why are you taking the liberty to change scripture to support your belief system?

There are 3 instances of the words "ten" and "commandments" coupled together in the entire Bible. So what significance is there in having a "'10' before commandments?" Let me help you out, there.

None

You are encouraging sincere people to violate their consciences. I'm not going to stand by and watch that kind of thing perpetrated unchecked. You seem to be on a mission that runs diametrically opposite of my own. I'm afraid we're bound to run into one another occasionally.

 

[D.A. Wright]

I admire you for wanting to have a relationship with Jesus that will keep you from sinning. The fact is that without the blood of Jesus covering our sins we could never achieve your set goals

Here, you are implying that with the blood of Jesus covering our sins we can achieve the goal of having a relationship with Jesus that will keep us from sinning.

What a tangled web we weave...

 

[D.A. Wright]

Walking in Jesus way does not mean that we have to observe the old covenant laws as Jesus explains to us in Jn15.

Do you mean in this way:

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." "I and My Father are One."
(John 15:10), (John 10:30)

Do They have different commandments? They are One, right? Maybe we need to consult a kindergarten class to help us figure this out.

 

[BobRyan]

The earliest Christians met on Sunday, to commemorate the day Christ rose from the dead. They met in the morning on Sundays for worship, and prayer, often very, very early in the morning, at sun rise.

This practice of meeting and worshipping on Sunday is very, very old. If at all possible, we should rest from work on Sunday, and spend the day with Christ.

So then - since you call Sunday the Sabbath - you are saying we should keep the Sabbath according to God's commandment?

 

[Bob S]

Since you claim this, do you even know what it means.

That was not very nice Rex. What do you assume I meant? It was Jesus sacrifice at Calvary that saves man. His shed blood covers our sins and presents us righteous before the Father. Now does that suit you?

Like there is a literal meaning to this passage that folks claim it like a magic wand that negates any responsiblity to obey the Law ,

yet, ironically enough it a law itself that God uses according to the Law to save us from the curse of death.

Do you have any scripture to back up that argument?

Certainly we are to obey the law. The law you advocate we keep was abrogated at Calvary. It is the laws found in the new covenant that we are responsible to keep not the laws given to Israel.

So folks that don't think the Law is valid now use a law tha Moses gave to claim freedom from it. That's like saying I can use the money from a bank robbery to pay bond for that robbery. Does anyone in this forum that is advocating the Law is done away with actually know what the law says?

According to you, I guess we don't. Pray tell us. One thing I do know that you seem not to know is that the Law was given only to the nation of Israel and has been replaced with new laws given to us by our Savior Jesus Christ and are eternal, not temporary like the ones given to Israel.

 

[BobRyan]

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel

So also is "do not take God's name in vain"

 

[Bob S]

There are 3 instances of the words "ten" and "commandments" coupled together in the entire Bible. So what significance is there in having a "'10' before commandments?" Let me help you out, there.

None

The significance is that 10 is never mentioned with commandments. If the writer intended to say ten commandments I am sure they would have. John in 1Jn uses the word commandments in his letter and goes on to explain just what commandments mean. Sorry to tell you he was not referring to the ten commandments. This is how we KNOW we belong to the truth........believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them.

You are encouraging sincere people to violate their consciences. I'm not going to stand by and watch that kind of thing perpetrated unchecked. You seem to be on a mission that runs diametrically opposite of my own. I'm afraid we're bound to run into one another occasionally.

I am giving them the truth as stated in the New Testament. You, on the other hand, are telling them they have to have one foot in the old covenant and the other in the new. That is completely false.

 

[Bob S]

Do you mean in this way:

I meant exactly what I wrote:
Walking in Jesus way does not mean that we have to observe the old covenant laws as Jesus explains to us in Jn15.

Here, you are implying that with the blood of Jesus covering our sins we can achieve the goal of having a relationship with Jesus that will keep us from sinning..

Why do you continue to put words that are not in my posts in your posts? I have to give your posting skills a big -0-.

What a tangled web we weave..

Speak for yourself and leave the "we" out.