Keeping Sabbath not in effect

Soyeong

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Hi Soyeong, Is there an exemption for stealing, adultery, or any hurtful act to God or man?

There were all kinds of exemptions for Sabbath. No exemptions for acts concerning morality laws, but for Sabbath there is. One more reason we know that Sabbath was a ceremonial or ritual law.

Hello. For example, take a scenario where you are hiding Jews and Nazis come to you door asking if you're hiding Jews. Should you lie? Or should you love your neighbor?

The Bible doesn't even use the subcategory of ceremonial law. The existence of the subcategory or moral laws implies the existence of a subcategory of non-moral laws, and if such a subcategory category existed, then you would be able to point to some examples in the OT where rebelling against those laws was treated as being moral, but not a single example. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently more laws. In Hebrews 1:3, Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature, so he expressed God's nature through his actions and what that looked like was sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law. So the Mosaic Law teach us how to act in accordance with God's nature, and we ought to act in accordance with God's nature, so again all of God's laws are inherently moral laws.

If you notice God gave the Sabbath to only one nation (that nation is now defunct). It was a law contained in the Sinai covenant. That covenant was broken, no covenant, no laws. Jesus didn't leave His sheep lawless, He gave us the Royal law of Love to live by.

The way to act in accordance with God's nature is straightforwardly based on God's nature, not on any particular covenant or group of people, and God's nature is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to act in accordance with His nature are eternally valid.

The whole purpose of God choosing Israel was to be a light and a blessing to the nations through testifying about who He is. God did not chose Israel because they were special or because of their merit, but because of His grace, so when the fact that God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt is not about who the Israelites are, but rather it teaches us something important about who God is. God's ways teach us about His nature and there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others, so the reason that God gave the law was not in order to teach the nations about who the Israelites are, but rather it was given to Israel in order equip them to be a light and a blessing to the nations through testifying about who Gods. Everyone who wants to become a follower of the God of Israel should seek by faith to learn how walk in His ways in accordance with His nature in accordance with God's example of obedience to the Mosaic Law that he set for us to follow in order to testify about who he is. Keeping the Sabbath holy bears witness that there is a Creator who acts on behalf of His creation while breaking the Sabbath bears false witness against God. In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments, so keeping the Sabbath holy in Exodus 20:8-11 is directly connected to what it looks like to obey the Royal law of Love.
 
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HARK!

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So that's a yes? If a person has a work schedule that has them working on the Sabbath they are breaking God's law then?

I won't work for someone who insists that I rebel against my creator.
 
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Bob S

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Hello. For example, take a scenario where you are hiding Jews and Nazis come to you door asking if you're hiding Jews. Should you lie? Or should you love your neighbor?
I would lie and ask for God's mercy. That scenario is very much an exception to the rule.

Your post is very well written and I appreciate your thoughts. The fact remains, even though the Bible does not actually categorizes the laws, that some laws deal with morality and some with ceremonial issues. You should be able to recognize that. You also should be able to recognize the fact that the ten commandments were only a few of the issues dealing with moral issues. A person could keep all ten and not have love in his/her heart and still not meet the requirements God has set for all mankind. Paul wrote that those ten were temporary guidance and now since the Holy Spirit has been poured out at Pentecost the ten have faded and our forever guide is God's gift of the Holy Spirit. The ten demanded the observance of the Sabbath. It was the words of the Sinai covenant to one nation. We are not under the Sinai covenant. Gentiles were never required to observe the day given only to Israel.

Questions: since Gentiles were never required to observe the Sabbath what requirement in all of scripture what changed that fact?

Did Jesus ever tell a Gentile they must keep the Sabbath in order to be saved or to please
Him?

In Eph 2:15 what did Jesus do to make Jews and Gentiles one?


The Bible doesn't even use the subcategory of ceremonial law. The existence of the subcategory or moral laws implies the existence of a subcategory of non-moral laws, and if such a subcategory category existed, then you would be able to point to some examples in the OT where rebelling against those laws was treated as being moral, but not a single example. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently more laws.
I believe there is more that enough evidence in scripture to help us differentiate between what is moral and what is ceremonial. Look at:
Hebrews 9:13
The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. The difference is that true morality comes from the heart. Ceremonies are outward expressions as seen in Heb 9
 
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Soyeong

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I would lie and ask for God's mercy. That scenario is very much an exception to the rule.

The same reasoning works for exceptions for keeping the Sabbath holy.

Your post is very well written and I appreciate your thoughts. The fact remains, even though the Bible does not actually categorizes the laws, that some laws deal with morality and some with ceremonial issues. You should be able to recognize that. You also should be able to recognize the fact that the ten commandments were only a few of the issues dealing with moral issues. A person could keep all ten and not have love in his/her heart and still not meet the requirements God has set for all mankind. Paul wrote that those ten were temporary guidance and now since the Holy Spirit has been poured out at Pentecost the ten have faded and our forever guide is God's gift of the Holy Spirit. The ten demanded the observance of the Sabbath. It was the words of the Sinai covenant to one nation. We are not under the Sinai covenant. Gentiles were never required to observe the day given only to Israel.

All of God's laws are in regard to morality and there is never a point where rebellion against any of God's laws is treated by the OT as being moral. I recognize that some laws can be considered to be ceremonial, however, not everyone agrees about which laws belong in that subcategory, and that Bible never defines which laws belong in that subcategory, and never even uses that as a subcategory of law, so it is not derived from the Bible. It's fine for people to create their own subcategories and to decide for themselves which laws they think best fits into those subcategories, but they should not then try to insert their own subcategories back into the Bible in order to create their own doctrines out of them when the authors of the Bible never used that as a subcategory.

For example, I could categorize God's laws according to the part of the body that is most often used to follow or break that law, such as that command against theft most often involving the use of our hands. You should be able to recognize that I could categorize the laws in this manner, however, that would not establish that any of the authors of the Bible ever categorized the laws in that manner, so I would run into error if I were to try to insert my categories back into the Bible in order to create my own doctrines out of them.

In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commands, so it is not possible to obey any of God's commands apart from love. In Hebrews 8:10-13, it speaks about the Mosaic Covenant becoming obsolete, but says nothing about the Mosaic Law becoming obsolete, especially because according to verse 10 the New Covenant still involves following it. It was sinful to commit adultery before the Mosaic Covenant was made (Genesis 39:9), during it, and adultery remains sinful after it has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any of God's covenants being made or becoming obsolete that changes which actions are righteous or sinful. The actions that are righteous or sinful are based on God's nature and God's nature is eternally the same throughout every covenant He has ever made or will make, so while we are not under the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same instructions for how to express His nature. The rejection of the Mosaic Law is the rejection of the nature who the God of Israel has revealed Himself to be. The only way that the New Covenant could have a different set of laws would be if it were made with a different God with a different nature.

The whole purpose of God choosing Israel was for them to be a light and a blessing to the nations through testifying about who He is and how to act in accordance with His nature, so there is not much sense in people from the nations wanting nothing to do with the light and blessing of God's word because it was given to Israel in order to teach to them instead of being directly given to them (Isaiah 2:2-3, 49:6).

Questions: since Gentiles were never required to observe the Sabbath what requirement in all of scripture what changed that fact?

In Isaiah 56:1-8, keeping the Sabbath holy is for all Gentiles who love God and His people, and who want to be blessed. Sin is defined as the the transgression of God's law, and God's law contains the command to keep the Sabbath holy, and Gentiles are required to refrain from sin, therefore Gentiles are required to keep the Sabbath holy.

Did Jesus ever tell a Gentile they must keep the Sabbath in order to be saved or to please
Him?

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel, which Jesus prophesied would be proclaimed to the nations (Matthew 24:12-14). Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, and that is what he commissioned his disciples with. It's up to Gentiles to see what Jesus taught by word and by example and to decide whether to become his follower. Jesus did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example, but rather it still involves following God's law (Jeremiah 31:33).

God did not required the Israelites to obey His law before He would save them out of bondage in Egypt, but rather he saved them by faith first, then gave them instructions for how to live as people who had been saved out of bondage. In the same way, God's law was not given as instructions for how to earn our salvation from sin, but how to live as people who have been saved from living in sin. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so keeping the Sabbath holy is pleasing to God insofar as it is an expression of our faith in Jesus. It is not as though the way to please God is by refusing to submit to His commands.

In Eph 2:15 what did Jesus do to make Jews and Gentiles one?

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), therefore Ephesians 2:15 couldn't be referring to any of God's laws. God did not make any mistakes when He gave the law, so He had no need to send Jesus to break down His own laws. Furthermore, God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves, so it wouldn't make any sense to interpret Ephesians 2:15 as referring to God's law. Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature can't be abolished without first abolishing God, and that is what you are essentially seeking to do when you reject who the God of Israel has revealed Himself to be through the Mosaic Law and try to make verses into being against obeying God.

I believe there is more that enough evidence in scripture to help us differentiate between what is moral and what is ceremonial. Look at:
Hebrews 9:13
The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. The difference is that true morality comes from the heart. Ceremonies are outward expressions as seen in Heb 9

I could agree that this law is ceremonial, but that doesn't mean that it isn't also moral. There is no instance where the OT treats rebellion against this law as being moral. In 1 John 5:3, if we love God, then we will obey His commandments, which are not burdensome, so obedience to God has always come from the heart.
 
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HARK!

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Paul wrote that those ten were temporary guidance and now since the Holy Spirit has been poured out at Pentecost the ten have faded and our forever guide is God's gift of the Holy Spirit. T

No he didn't.
 
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HARK!

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Did Jesus ever tell a Gentile they must keep the Sabbath in order to be saved or to please
Him?

Here is what Paul said:

(CLV) Ro 8:9
Yet you are not in flesh, but in spirit, if so be that God's spirit is making its home in you. Now if anyone has not Christ's spirit, this one is not His.

(CLV) Ro 8:10
Now if Christ is in you, the body, indeed, is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is life because of righteousness.

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

What is righteousness?

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS
 
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Malihah

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A person could keep all ten and not have love in his/her heart and still not meet the requirements God has set for all mankind.

Exactly. Or even worse you could take one commandment like the Sabbath and make it into the Gospel. I can do whatever I want all week long but as long as I try to make Saturday holy then I'm righteous.
 
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Bob S

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Here is what Paul said:

(CLV) Ro 8:9
Yet you are not in flesh, but in spirit, if so be that God's spirit is making its home in you. Now if anyone has not Christ's spirit, this one is not His.

(CLV) Ro 8:10
Now if Christ is in you, the body, indeed, is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is life because of righteousness.
Pray tell us what those verses have to do with Gentiles having to observe Sabbath?

What is sin? Transgressing the laws God has given all mankind in the new covenant. It certainly is not the ceremonial laws given only to the now defunct Israel. If mankind would listen and hear our Savior there would not be uprisings, war, turmoil and hatred. His message to us is Love, not a bunch of rituals given only to Israel. If we all would believe in Jesus and love others as Jesus loves us what a wonderful World this would be and how happy we would make our Creator and Redeemer. Instead of preaching that we have to keep a bunch of ceremonial laws if we would preach peace and love to all we can we would be serving God well.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.
The problem is that you define sin as the laws of the defunct old covenant that was given to only Israel.

What is righteousness? Believing in Jesus is doing right. He is our righteousness. Without Him I don't care how many laws you tell us you keep none of them will make you righteous. Jn5:24 and Jn3:16

24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.


1Jn 3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth.... 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.


Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Great definition, Moral law or laws dealing with morality toward our fellow man. Keeping laws that deal with rituals that were part of the Sinai covenant would have no bearing on Christians' morality.
 
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Pray tell us what those verses have to do with Gentiles having to observe Sabbath?

Gentiles, Goyim, the nations, Pagans? YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

What is sin? Transgressing the laws God has given all mankind in the new covenant. It certainly is not the ceremonial laws

Define ceremonial laws. How does Baptism fit in?

given only to the now defunct Israel.

If Israel is defunct; we have no covenant.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

His message to us is Love,

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

not a bunch of rituals given only to Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

The problem is that you define sin as the laws of the defunct old covenant that was given to only Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

What is righteousness?

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS


1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Believing in Jesus is doing right.

(CLV) Jn 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for the writes concerning Me.

(CLV) Jn 5:47
Now if you are not believing this writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?"
 
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