Justification by Faith Defended!

[Bible Highlighter]

So let me understand what you are suggesting here. You are saying that sinners can provide righteous acts to merit salvation from God? I hope you understand that Justification & Sanctification are distinct form each other. To place any works of the sinner in the Justification category, turns it into a legalistic salvation not based on Mercy or Grace, but on demands of the Law.

Justified by Faith​

Galatians 2:15We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Now understand we are talking about how a sinner is justified before a Holy God! What hangs over every sinner is the curse of the Law. So before anything else, this curse needs to be taken care of. But there is a major problem. No flesh will be justified through the law. Why is Paul preaching this? To drive sinners away from their own filthy rags of righteousness; or what they think are righteous works! To Christ who saves the ungodly (Romans 4:5). God does not Justify the Righteous, not the ungodly!!!! Think about that before you reply. Why does God justify the one who does NOT WORK, but the one who believes in God who justifies the ungodly! Why?

Okay. I addressed this passage. Now it is your turn to address at least a few of my verses that I have put forth.

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

 

[redleghunter]

I say it again- both faith and works are useless for you unless they're working together.

You should really credit the author of even a paraphrase.

Faith is a living, bold trust in God’s grace, so certain of God’s favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of God’s grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they’re smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do.---Martin Luther​

Martin Luther's Definition of Faith by Martin Luther

I'm sure uncle Marty doesn't mind though.

 

[redleghunter]

Paul taught that we are justified by faith apart from works of the law- he didn't say that we are justified by faith alone (he doesn't use the word "alone", but "apart)- he said that justification can happen apart from works. Still, James in his epistle says that we are justified by works, not by faith alone. Yet, like Paul, he doesn't suggest that we are justified only one way. He makes it clear that both cause justification. Works are a sign of a true faith and cannot justify on their own- but neither does a dead faith (one without works) justify. Only when the two come together is one justified.

If you are standing in a room and no one else is there are you there alone?

 

[ladodgers6]

Amen brother. And to add to your comments even the works we do are credited to Christ by His Grace as the Council of Orange makes very painfully clear.

CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10).​

Amen! I was made fun of, for reading historical writings and figures. He said that I have to stop reading from old men! That the Reformation is out of date. I told him everything we debate in this forum is no novelty. Everything has already been debated by the greatest minds in Christendom! And I am only parroting & echoing it.

CANON 7. If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, as is expedient for us, or that we can be saved, that is, assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who makes all men gladly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray by a heretical spirit, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, "For apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, "Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God" (2 Cor. 3:5).

​

Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org

Amen, my brother! Thanks for sharing this!

About the Council of Orange 529 AD:

The Council of Orange was an outgrowth of the controversy between Augustine and Pelagius. This controversy had to do with degree to which a human being is responsible for his or her own salvation, and the role of the grace of God in bringing about salvation. The Pelagians held that human beings are born in a state of innocence, i.e., that there is no such thing as a sinful nature or original sin.

As a result of this view, they held that a state of sinless perfection was achievable in this life. The Council of Orange dealt with the Semi-Pelagian doctrine that the human race, though fallen and possessed of a sinful nature, is still "good" enough to able to lay hold of the grace of God through an act of unredeemed human will. The Council held to Augustine's view and repudiated Pelagius.

Excellent!!! Knowledge for those who are not familiar with Reformed Theology. Here's one of my favorites.




60. Q.
How are you righteous before God?

A.
Only by true faith in Jesus Christ. 1
Although my conscience accuses me
that I have grievously sinned
against all God's commandments,
have never kept any of them, 2
and am still inclined to all evil, 3
yet God, without any merit of my own, 4
out of mere grace, 5
imputes to me
the perfect satisfaction,
righteousness, and holiness of Christ. 6
He grants these to me
as if I had never had nor committed
any sin,
and as if I myself had accomplished
all the obedience
which Christ has rendered for me, 7
if only I accept this gift
with a believing heart. 8

• 1. Rom 3:21-28; Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8, 9; Phil 3:8-11.
• 2. Rom 3:9, 10.
• 3. Rom 7:23.
• 4. Deut 9:6; Ezek 36:22; Tit 3:4, 5.
• 5. Rom 3:24; Eph 2:8.
• 6. Rom 4:3-5; 2 Cor 5:17-19; 1 Jn 2:1, 2.
• 7. Rom 4:24, 25; 2 Cor 5:21.
• 8. Jn 3:18; Acts 16:30, 31; Rom 3:22.

And Luther said, "Do you believe, Christ did this for you?" Preaching with a pronoun: You, Me!!!

He justifies the UNGODLY!!!!! Amen to that. If that doesn't get you going, what don't know what will.

 

[redleghunter]

Hmm, which teaching would that be? Do you have any CCC references or Council decisions to back that up?

Maybe you could quote the catechism on Justification.

 

[amariselle]

It looks like these are responses to the ones below the lines.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These look like response words to me.

Sure it does

No, he is not

Did you read each point that I was responding to? That may help clarify things.

 

[redleghunter]

What exactly do you all mean by "justification by faith"?

You guys hate having to do those works, don't you? I have to wonder who are these threads trying to convince, and conclude it could very well be yourselves.

Soli Deo gloria, Solo Christo and Sola gratia.

If anyone adds to the finished work of Christ it robs God of His Glory.

I don't know think anyone is trying to get out of "homework assignments" but trying to make sure no one is plagiarizing the Teacher.

 

[klutedavid]

Not true. James 2 says, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" (James 2:21). So what man had seen Abraham perform his works of being justified when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?

Abraham never actually sacrificed his son, Abraham only had the intent to perform that work. Are you claiming that one work added to faith is sufficient grounds for salvation?

 

[redleghunter]

You are missing that to be Justified before a Holy God. You have to be Perfectly Righteous and without blemish!!! And since we are already convicted law breakers and under the curse of the Law. It is impossible for us to be justified through our works before or even after conversion.

Read this:

Justified by Faith​

Galatians 2:15We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

I just love Galatians the clearest book in the Bible on Justification by Faith Alone, next to the Book of Romans. Please address the red highlights. Please do not try to twist it. Just read it, ponder upon it, pray about it. Then read it again, with eyes seeking the truth!!

And I think the importance there is the Law reveals the Holiness of God. It exposes our sin before a Perfect Father.

In Matthew 5 we see the Kingdom of God is Perfection. So very important to preach the Kindom of God when we preach the Gospel of Christ. The Kingdom of God reveals we are not perfect. Only Christ was and our entry into the Kingdom is His Perfect sacrifice by His Grace.

 

[ladodgers6]

You should really credit the author of even a paraphrase.

Faith is a living, bold trust in God’s grace, so certain of God’s favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of God’s grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they’re smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do.---Martin Luther​

Martin Luther's Definition of Faith by Martin Luther

I'm sure uncle Marty doesn't mind though.

I Love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I Love Luther. Luther was my favorite when I first got introduce to the Reformation.

 

[ladodgers6]

Okay. I addressed this passage. Now it is your turn to address at least a few of my verses that I have put forth.

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

See how they are speaking about Faith here. They are teaching about Sanctification & Antinomianism. As Paul did in Romans 6, and Galatians 6.

When our brothers & sisters are caught sinning we should restore them with Love & Gentleness. We should bear each other burdens to fulfill the Law of Christ. We do this because we want to, because we Love and care for them. Not seeking any reward or recognition for it. You who are Fathers, Mothers, Sisters, Brothers, will you not do anything to save your family from a burning house? Would you put your self in harm way to save your family? How much more is God's Love toward His children in Christ? So Love your God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself.

By doing so, you will fulfill the Law of Christ. This is walking in holiness, and good works, coming from Faith in Christ.

Galatians 6:1Brothers,a if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

 

[amariselle]

And this:

Romans 3:
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[MDC]

Well, I am not discounting that one needs to first half faith or belief in Jesus Christ to be saved (and that one must continue to believe in Jesus). This does not undo how we must also go through the Sanctification process so as to be saved, too. Paul was arguing against those who thought they needed to be circumcised in order to initially or ultimately saved by God (See Romans 3:1 and Galatians 5:2).

As for your claim that people who read the NT Scriptures about Abraham and his works as being a qualifier for being justified by works before men and not God:

Well, that sounds like a stretch of the imagination for me to believe that such is the case. Nowhere does the verse hint that we are justified by men with our works and not God in regards to men reading Scripture. One needs to have faith or belief in the Scriptures in order to truly accept that Abraham did works or not. The man who reads the Bible is not seeing Abraham actually doing these works. They have to take that by faith or belief and it is not by sight that Abraham did works. So your explanation doesn't fit. It is a forced explanation that just doesn't jive with what the rest of Scriptures says.

As for James 2:23:
If you were to keep reading it says,

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

It says very clearly here how we are justified by works and not by faith only (i.e. by faith alone). This is not before men because James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James 1:21 says, "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." James here is saying we have to put away naughtiness and or filthiness out of our lives and receive the Word (Which is able to save our souls). So James is saying we have to put away sin as a part of receiving God's Word (Which is able to save our souls). This sounds like a salvation issue to me. James also says in James 1:12. "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." But in OSAS, you receive the crown of life regardless, right? But James says blessed is the man who endures temptation that when he is tried, he receives the crown of life. The crown of life is talking about salvation or eternal life.



James says in James 2:24 that we are justified by works and not by faith alone.
So is Paul contradicting James? No. Paul is saying we are not justified by Works Alone (which would be at the expense of God's grace). In other words, Paul is saying we cannot put the cart before the horse.

So according to you, Christ’s merits ALONE do not justify a sinner?

 

[ladodgers6]

How would you classify an Antinomian believer?
Are Antinomian believers saved?

You are asking the right questions. Thanks for that. I'll let Paul answer this.

Galatians 6:1Brothers,a if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

If they believe in Christ for everything in Salvation. But are struggling we need to help them. Restore with Love and Gentleness. Help carry their burden. By doing this we fulfill the Law of Christ! We are not counting how many good works we do. We just do, because we want to do. We don't look for rewards or recognition for it. If that is the case, then you are doing it, just to receive something in return from them. Basically they are in debt to you. How is that Christian Love to your neighbor?

So you believe they were saved despite their hating the poor brethren by their actions?
1 John 3:15 says if we hate our brother, we are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.

Well, let's look back. Peter denied Christ 3 times. Is Peter saved? Moses was band from entering the Promise Land of Canaan for his sin against God. Is Moses saved? The Great King David, committed adultery & murder. Was King David saved?

So let me ask you. Have you invited the poor or homeless into your house? Have you feed the poor and given them money to survive? Have you ever had ill thoughts toward another person? Or whatever you thought was a sin? How are we different?

When you think you are something, when your not, you deceived yourself. The devil wants us to be full of pride, and ego. Should the people in James 2 not help out their neighbor here, who are struggling with their Faith???

 

[ladodgers6]

And this:

Romans 3:
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Thank you so much Amariselle, excellent post. I just Love Romans! Paul is so clear here. A righteousness apart from the Law has been manifested; namely Christ Jesus! And this righteousness is imputed to us through Faith Alone!!! Amen!!!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sanctification is also a work of the Spirit, not the flesh.

I never said otherwise. On the contrary, I believe all three persons of the Godhead or the Trinity live and move within the believer. But that does not mean we do not have free will and we cannot resist God. Doing good works or living holy is about cooperating with the Lord our God wants to do in our lives.

Paul was arguing against those who thought they needed to be circumcised in order to initially or ultimately saved by God (See Romans 3:1 and Galatians 5:2).

That was the issue with the Judiazers at the time, but Scripture is clear, no one is saved by any works of the Law, period.

So you are not saved by keeping the following Law or commandment?

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (1 John 3:23).

So you are saying you are not under the command to believe on Jesus?

What about not loving your neighbor?

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:41-46).

Note: In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus says that the good samaritan who was beaten up and stripped of his clothes and laying on the side of the road (like a poor man) in response to a certain lawyer who asked, who was his neighbor (in regards to loving his neighbor) (See Luke 10:25-37).

John says if we hate our brother, we are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). Surely our brother is our neighbor.

Sure it does. It specifically talks about showing our faith by our works. Clearly so that other people can “see” our faith lived out in action.

But it mentions nothing about how these works are to be seen by us reading about them (Whereby they are justified by such works). That is something you have invented that cannot be seen in Scripture.

And when we hear or read of the OT “saints”, this is precisely the case. When James wrote to the “12 tribes scattered abroad”, had any of them personally known Abraham or seen his willingness to offer His son personally? Of course not.

It is the same for us with the entire word of God and specifically the Gospel. We “see” Christ crucified when we hear or read Scripture. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Again, we are not seeing their works physically whereby they would be justified by such works. Reading about what somebody said is not the same thing because it requires faith. They may not have done such things. Again, they are not being justified by works if no man sees them. A hand written account is not the same thing. It can be a fabrication. It requires faith in the unseen.

Also, Romans 4 does not actually say that Abraham was justified by works before men. Romans 4:2 is talking about how Abraham would have something to boast about if salvation was exclusively in keeping the Law alone.

Exactly. “You see.” That is precisely what I am saying. God had imputed righteousness to Abraham when Abraham simply believed God 25 years before Issac was even born. (As the previous verse makes clear) His willingness to offer Issac, however, is when we “see” his faith in action.

But this is merely optional. You said before David was saved in his sins of adultery and murder. So it appears it does not always have to be this way.

Read chapter 1 and the beginning of chapter 2, they give the context of the letter. It was written to saved Jewish believers of the Diaspora. James calles them “beloved brethren” several times. He is chastising them for showing favouritism to wealthy people and failing to help those in need, but he is not writing to tell them how to be saved, they already are.

No. "...there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." (Romans 10:12).

Also, James is saying they are not saved.
For he says,

"But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors." (James 2:9).

"Faith without works is dead" (James 2:17).

A dead faith cannot save anyone.
For without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

Yes. And what “is able to save your souls”? The word or works?

You side stepped the part of the verse that says we are to lay apart filthiness and naughtiness as a part of which is able to save our souls,

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

No one should argue against teachings regarding spiritual maturity and being faithful disciples, however, it is not our faithfulness and obedience that saves, it is Christ’s. The obedience of ONE.

This is entirely fiction. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

Walking = Keeping God's commandments.
The light = God the Father.
He who is in the light = Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:10 says loving your brother is abiding in the light.
1 John 2:11 says that if we are to hate our brother, we abide in darkness.

Paul says loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (See Romans 13:8-10).

No, he is not. James wrote his letter to his “beloved brethren”, already saved Jewish believers. And we know Jesus died for sinners, and that there is none righteous, no not one.

Okay. Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 is not talking about faithful believers in the present tense in regards to how they live. It is talking about Initial Salvation and how all have fallen short of God's glory because all have sinned and how they need a Savior and how all can be saved by coming to Jesus Christ by faith. For if you believe Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 refers to the believer in how they live after they are saved by God's grace, then you must also conclude that Romans 3:11 applies to the current state of the believer (after they are saved by God's grace).

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." (Romans 3:11).

So if all have sinned and come short of the glory of God applies to the present way of life for the believer today, then you must also accept Romans 3:11 that describes the believer today, too. So you must believe that the saints today have no understanding and that none of them seeks after God, too. In other words, Romans 3 is talking about "Initial Salvation" and not the current state of the believer in how they live after they are saved by God's grace.

What you are suggesting is that people need to clean themselves up before Christ can save them. This is false. Jesus Himself rebuked the religious leaders for this mentality, they were good at “cleaning the outside of the cup”, but inside they were full of all uncleaness. Only God can clean the “inside of the cup.” Only in Him are we made new creations, born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

Uh, cleaning the outside of the cup is putting on a religious show. Jesus told them to clean the inside of the cup, by telling them to get their hearts right with the Lord by repenting of their sins and forsaking them. A changed heart by being born again spiritually would be cleaning the inside of the cup. One is not born again if there is no change in their life and they are still sinning.

I am saying that a person seeks forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and they believe in His death and resurrection for salvation and they are saved in that moment. If they continue in His word and obey the Lord, they will remain in His salvation. If they go back to a life of sin, they will then abide in death.

Yes, we endure temptation, but true life is found only in the Son. Eternal life is a gift, not a wage or a reward. If there are certain Scriptures difficult to understand, we do well to study carefully on the matter to rightly divide the word of truth.

So what is the crown of life mean to you in James 1?
I know full well what it means. It is talking about eternal life.

As for eternal life being a gift:
Well, gifts come with responsibilities.
Obviously if Bob received a car as a free gift, he could not run red lights, drive drunk, and or hit pedestrians. If he did, he would not keep his free gift for very long.

Paul plainly taught that by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in the sight of God, and that we are saved by, grace, through faith and not of works; salvation is a gift of God, lest any many should boast.

Sounds pretty clear to me.

Paul is talking about Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism. Hence, why he says that Ephesians 2:9 are works that a man would boast in. Ephesians 2:10 switches to talking about God directed works. Paul is trying to refute Works Alone Salvation-ism by men. For if we obey God's commands in the New Testament, how can the Lord fault us? But if we do evil, will we not be judged?

9 "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:9-11).

 

[amariselle]

Thank you so much for Amariselle, excellent post. I just Love Romans! Paul is so clear here. A righteousness apart from the Law has been manifested; namely Christ Jesus! And this righteousness is imputed to us through Faith Alone!!! Amen!!!

I love the inspired writings of Paul. They are so clear and wonderful. I thank God for them!

 

[amariselle]

I never said otherwise. On the contrary, I believe all three persons of the Godhead or the Trinity live and move within the believer. But that does not mean we do not have free will and we cannot resist God. Doing good works or living holy is about cooperating with the Lord our God wants to do in our lives.

So you are not saved by keeping the following Law or commandment?

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (1 John 3:23).

So you are saying you are not under the command to believe on Jesus?

What about not loving your neighbor?

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:41-46).

Note: In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus says that the good samaritan who was beaten up and stripped of his clothes and laying on the side of the road (like a poor man) in response to a certain lawyer who asked, who was his neighbor (in regards to loving his neighbor) (See Luke 10:25-37).

John says if we hate our brother, we are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). Surely our brother is our neighbor.

But it mentions nothing about how these works are to be seen by us reading about them (Whereby they are justified by such works). That is something you have invented that cannot be seen in Scripture.

Again, we are not seeing their works physically whereby they would be justified by such works. Reading about what somebody said is not the same thing because it requires faith. They may not have done such things. Again, they are not being justified by works if no man sees them. A hand written account is not the same thing. It can be a fabrication. It requires faith in the unseen.

Also, Romans 4 does not actually say that Abraham was justified by works before men. Romans 4:2 is talking about how Abraham would have something to boast about if salvation was exclusively in keeping the Law alone.

But this is merely optional. You said before David was saved in his sins of adultery and murder. So it appears it does not always have to be this way.

No. "...there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." (Romans 10:12).

Also, James is saying they are not saved.
For he says,

"But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors." (James 2:9).

"Faith without works is dead" (James 2:17).

A dead faith cannot save anyone.
For without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

You side stepped the part of the verse that says we are to lay apart filthiness and naughtiness as a part of which is able to save our souls,

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

This is entirely fiction. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

Walking = Keeping God's commandments.
The light = God the Father.
He who is in the light = Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:10 says loving your brother is abiding in the light.
1 John 2:11 says that if we are to hate our brother, we abide in darkness.

Paul says loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (See Romans 13:8-10).

Okay. Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 is not talking about faithful believers in the present tense in regards to how they live. It is talking about Initial Salvation and how all have fallen short of God's glory because all have sinned and how they need a Savior and how all can be saved by coming to Jesus Christ by faith. For if you believe Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 refers to the believer in how they live after they are saved by God's grace, then you must also conclude that Romans 3:11 applies to the current state of the believer (after they are saved by God's grace).

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." (Romans 3:11).

So if all have sinned and come short of the glory of God applies to the present way of life for the believer today, then you must also accept Romans 3:11 that describes the believer today, too. So you must believe that the saints today have no understanding and that none of them seeks after God, too. In other words, Romans 3 is talking about "Initial Salvation" and not the current state of the believer in how they live after they are saved by God's grace.

Uh, cleaning the outside of the cup is putting on a religious show. Jesus told them to clean the inside of the cup, by telling them to get their hearts right with the Lord by repenting of their sins and forsaking them. A changed heart by being born again spiritually would be cleaning the inside of the cup. One is not born again if there is no change in their life and they are still sinning.

I am saying that a person seeks forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and they believe in His death and resurrection for salvation and they are saved in that moment. If they continue in His word and obey the Lord, they will remain in His salvation. If they go back to a life of sin, they will then abide in death.

So what is the crown of life mean to you in James 1?
I know full well what it means. It is talking about eternal life.

As for eternal life being a gift:
Well, gifts come with responsibilities.
Obviously if Bob received a car as a free gift, he could not run red lights, drive drunk, and or hit pedestrians. If he did, he would not keep his free gift for very long.

Paul is talking about Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism. Hence, why he says that Ephesians 2:9 are works that a man would boast in. Ephesians 2:10 switches to talking about God directed works. Paul is trying to refute Works Alone Salvation-ism by men. For if we obey God's commands in the New Testament, how can the Lord fault us? But if we do evil, will we not be judged?

9 "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:9-11).

I am going to need to reply to this tomorrow, it’s late, I’m typing on my phone and there’s a lot there to carefully address.

 

[ladodgers6]

I never said otherwise. On the contrary, I believe all three persons of the Godhead or the Trinity live and move within the believer. But that does not mean we do not have free will and we cannot resist God. Doing good works or living holy is about cooperating with the Lord our God wants to do in our lives.

I agree. I will help respond to this tomorrow as well.

In Christ our Righteousness!

 

[ladodgers6]

I am going to need to reply to this tomorrow, it’s late, I’m typing on my phone and there’s a lot there to carefully address.

Sorry for the stupid question. Where is the Great Northern Wilderness?