Justification and Sanctification ?

[Clare73]

I think the Protestant version of “Justification” is not really biblical (Important Note: To the general reader who is just joining our discussion: Please take note I am not Catholic or Orthodox; I am a Trinitarian non-denominational Christian who believes in the “Bible alone + the Anointing to Understand It“). Okay. So how does the Bible describe justified or Justification?

It does so by using the word "justification" (dikaiosis), which definition in Greek is: a declaration of "not guilty," a sentence of acquittal, a finding of right standing with the Court (debt paid, time served).
That is the light in which all understanding of justification/righteousness is to be understood.

The definition is a forensic righteousness, not the actual righteousness of sanctification by obedience in the Holy Spirit, which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16-19).

Well, We are justified by Christ (Galatians 2:17). We are also justified freely by his grace (Romans 3:24). We are justified by His blood (Romans 5:9). We are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God (1 Corinthians 6:11). We are justified by faith (Romans 5:1). In fact, we are justified by faith without the deeds of the Law (Romans 3:28) or justified without the works of the Law (Galatians 2:16). But yet, the Bible also says we are also justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). We are also justified by our words (Matthew 12:37).

Yes, justified means to be declared righteous. But we have to live out our whole Christian life by faith (which includes the work of faith) to access the saving grace of God (Romans 5:2). While Hebrews 11:3 describes faith as a belief alone, it also describes faith as doing things, as well. “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;” (Hebrews 11:7). James 2:21 says, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?” Yet, Hebrews 11:17 tells us that this same event was ”by faith.” For it is written in Hebrews 11, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17).

Yes, believers are first saved by God’s grace without works in their inital salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9).
But believers also need to sow to the Spirit in “well doing” (good works) to reap everlasting life, too (Galatians 6:8-9).
Believers do need to live holy lives after they are saved by God’s grace and mercy; For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). We are told to be not deceived in that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

For quick review and not as an exhaustive study: Sanctification or Being Sanctified has two major different usages in the Bible.

#1. Believers are Sanctified or washed (made holy, regenerated, born again) by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) (1 Corinthians 6:11) after they are first saved initially by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior.​

​

#2. Believers are to enter the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit to live a holy life over the course of their whole life (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Galatians 6:8-9) (Romans 8:13) (2 Corinthians 7:1).​

Believers cannot justify the idea that they can sin and still be saved by using Romans 7:14-24, 1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15 as an excuse to sin. Jude 1:4 warns against those who turn God’s grace into a license for immorality (or lasviiousness).

Anyways, I hope this write up edifies you, and may the Lord Jesus bless you, and your family.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

By that do you mean its more beholding to Calvin's theology ... who was most influenial in the 16th century "forensic" thinking?

I am not sure what you think I said that would lead you to think I favor Calvinism. I am strongly against Calvinism. I have been fighting against it within this thread. So I am not sure why you would think I am in league with their thinking.

Calvinism is wrong morally on many levels.
While not all Calvinists believe all points in the list below, many of them do.

1. They believe in infant damnation (i.e., they believe babies can go to hell).
2. They believe God decrees evil and or sin (instead of God permitting sin). So if a person was raped, it was God’s decree. The murder of the Jews by Hitler was God’s decree.
3. They believe that the majority of mankind was created with having only one fate or destiny and that is to be tortured for all eternity in the flames of the Lake of Fire.
4. They believe the same thing as John Piper (a Calvnist) says in that they still do their sins and yet they are not on them because they have been taken away. So they believe in a sin and still be saved type belief on some level (Depsite their Trojan horse double message that one has to live holy or do good as a part of salvation).
5. They believe God forces salvation upon certain people (against their will) based on no conditions and others He just lets them to be damned (with them having no other choice for no reason), and then He gets upset at the wicked (even though it was His choice for them to be that way). In other words, God could save all of mankind under this construct, but He simply chooses not to save them all (even when He has the power and ability to do so by His method of Unconditional Election of Forced Salvation).

Side Note:

Calvinists make memes of themselves as if they are Darth Vader.
Do a Google image search on the keywords “Calvinist memes Darth Vader.”
Now, while you will see Armininans mocking Calvinism by these memes, you will also see Calvinists making them to defend Calvinism, too. It’s crazy. Why would they think they are of the darkside? Well, look at the list above that I heard from Calvinists and its not surprising. I am sure some of them will just laugh at this and or say it is not true (to try and discredit what I said, but all one has to do is search the internet on these things to discover what I say is true; We are not living in the pre-internet era anymore).

Yes, we do need to “sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:” (1 Peter 3:15). ... "need the sanctification of" ....

Right, I added it after the fact because my write up on Sanctification was not complete or exhaustive. 1 Peter 3:15 is absolutely necessary. I mentioned what I did because my time is limited (When I wrote that this morning), and I do see that the two sanctifications by God are extremely important and key to our lives.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Would 1 Peter 3:15 read better as ... "but (justify) Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;"

IF not would that be because Christians for the most part have been indoctrinated as to the meaning of "justification" but not so much when it comes to "santification".?​

While Modern Bible Translations can be helpful at times, I believe the King James Bible is the perfect Word of God and it is my final Word of authority; Therefore, I would go with the reading “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:” in 1 Peter 3:15. So we do have to make efforts on our part to sanctify God in our hearts. God is supposed to live in our hearts and we need to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). We need to always dedicate and prepare our hearts to God in holiness, and draw close to Him whereby He will draw close to us. We must refuse the evil always and only accept and do the good that God has for us. Names can be blotted out of the book of life on account of sin. Even one sin can keep a believer out of God’s Kingdom. No believer should ever think they can abide in serious sin and still be saved. Yet, most of Christianity believes they can sin and still be saved (Which is wrong). Jude 1:4 warns us against those who turn God’s grace into a license for immorality (or lasciviousness). They read 1 John 1:8 as a banner flag to commit sin, even if they double speak and talk about how they must live holy to enter the Kingdom. They put on a sheep skin to hide their true teaching that they can also sin and yet be saved.

 

[BBAS 64]

Would 1 Peter 3:15 read better as ... "but (justify) Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;"

IF not would that be because Christians for the most part have been indoctrinated as to the meaning of "justification" but not so much when it comes to "santification".?​

Good Day, Abba

John Gill notes:

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts,....

Still referring to Isa_8:13 not by making him holy, which need not, nor cannot be, he being essentially, infinitely, and perfectly holy; but by declaring and proclaiming his holiness, as the seraphim in Isaiah's prophecy, and the four living creatures in the Revelation did; and by glorifying of him, praising and applauding all his perfections, and among the rest, this of his holiness, and giving thanks at the remembrance of it; which he has so much displayed in the works of creation, providence, redemption, and grace; hence the Arabic version renders it, bless the Lord God in your hearts: the Lord God is sanctified by his people externally, when they regard his commands, attend his ordinances, and call upon his name, and praise him; but here an internal sanctification of him, a sanctification of him in their hearts, is intended, and what is opposed to the fear of men, and unbelief, and lies in the exercise of the grace of fear upon him; see Isa_8:13 and which has for its object his goodness, and is a fruit of the covenant of his grace, and is a child like and godly fear; and in the exercise of faith upon him, upon his covenant and promises, his faithfulness, and power to help, assist, and preserve; whereby glory is given to him, a witness borne to his truth, and he is sanctified: some copies, as the Alexandrian, and one of Stephens's, read, sanctify the Lord Christ; and so read the Vulgate Latin and Syriac versions; and certain it is that he is intended in Isa_8:13 as appears from 1Pe_3:14 compared with Rom_9:33.

Now on Isa 8:13

Isaiah 8:13
Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself,.... Christ, Immanuel, God with us, the Lord of the armies above and below, of angels and of men, God over all, the true Jehovah, who is sanctified by his people, when they declare him to be so; as the Targum paraphrases it,
"the Lord of hosts, him shall ye say is holy;''

for they cannot make him so, nor can he receive any holiness from them, nor does he need any; but they celebrate the perfection of his holiness, and ascribe it to him; yea, they sanctify him, by ascribing their holiness to him; by looking to him as their sanctification, and by deriving and expecting every degree and measure of holiness from him, to complete theirs; by exercising faith upon him, and showing a regard to his commands and ordinances:


and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread; that is, the object of fear and dread; not of a servile fear and dread, but of a holy reverence and godly fear; such a fear as is the grace of the covenant, which flows from the goodness of God, and has that for its object, and is influenced by it; see Hos_3:5 where the same Lord, Messiah, David the king, is meant, as here. See 1Pe_3:15.

 

[timothyu]

“sanctified”

It is a shame when many assume that gives them the right to become pompous and self righteous, the opposite of what God expects of us

 

[AbbaLove]

It is a shame when many assume that gives them the right to become pompous and self righteous, the opposite of what God expects of us

Would you agree that most American church-goers believe they are justified, but aren't convinced whether or not they are sanctified and unsure of the meaning of sanctified? Possibly confused because they've been led to believe that Paul was a "chief" sinner after his conversion? Don't most church-goers consider a Saint a sanctified (holy) Christian, but may never consider themself to be a Saint -(holy sanctified)?

Does a sanctified holy Christian Saint still work out their "salvation with fear and trembling" (Phillippians 2:12). Is Paul's theology in conflict with John's (1 John 4:18) ... "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."

One can see why "beloved John" has the above love doctrine/theology; whereas Paul considered himself "chief" sinner for vehemently persecuting 'Followers of the WAY' before his born again conversion. Thus the same exists today with Christians of diverse backgrounds. Some even contending they were a Christian when sprinkled with holy water. While others not a Christian until they accepted Christ. Others not a bonafide Christian until sanctified and justified that is only known to them by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

 

[timothyu]

As the thief on the cross said roughly quoting, we deserve punishment but this man is innocent. Yet that brought about his salvation. There is no point we should forget we deserve punishment.

 

[Clare73]

As the thief on the cross said roughly quoting, we deserve punishment but this man is innocent. Yet that brought about his salvation. There is no point we should forget we deserve punishment.

Those, for whom their sin has been atoned through faith in Jesus Christ and his atoning work, do not deserve punishment, it has already been administered.
Jesus' work is not ineffective.

 

[timothyu]

Those, for whom their sin has been atoned through faith in Jesus Christ and his atoning work, do not deserve punishment,

Regardless, we still deserved punishment. The grace of God gave us a pass but we must never forget we don't really deserve it. An unwarranted gift.

 

[Clare73]

Regardless, we still deserved punishment. The grace of God gave us a pass but we must never forget we don't really deserve it. An unwarranted gift.

We must never forget that we are adopted sons of God, the spouse of, which is the body of, Christ in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union, co-inheritors with Christ in his eternal inheritance from the Father.
That is who we are.

 

[AbbaLove]

As the thief on the cross said roughly quoting, we deserve punishment but this man is innocent. Yet that brought about his salvation. There is no point we should forget we deserve punishment.

Agree as sinners ... before (born again) Faith (with sanctificaton and justification) ...

Matthew 5:8​

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.​

Hebrews 12:14​

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:​

That thief may have ticked off both a Pharisee as well as a Roman soldier. I suspect there were more than a few Jewish rebels that admired Jesus as a miracle working prophet who they hoped would help free Israel from Roman oppression.

We don't know that much about that thief on the cross. Perhaps in the eyes of God he was God-fearing, but his zeal for Israel was little different than Peter cutting off the right ear of the High Priest that came to arrest Jesus. Fortunately, Jesus restored the Priest's ear or Peter may have also faced a severe beating of lashes and even crucifixion.

.

 

[timothyu]

That is who we are.

Yes late invited guests at the marriage feast of the Messiah and His new unblemished Kingdom

 

[timothyu]

We don't know that much about that thief on the cross.

All we need know is he fulfilled Jesus' two commandments and put goodwill towards another before himself, unlike the selfish other theif who found no salvation. A perfect example of wat Jesus and especially the Father has taught all along, while man continues to think of self and even think the Kingdom is all about us.

 

[Clare73]

Yes late invited guests at the marriage feast of the Messiah and His new unblemished Kingdom

And the only ones who showed up.

 

[timothyu]

And the only ones who showed up.

For now.. it is interesting that at the time the other nations of the House of Israel of the Hebrew people accepted Jesus where the self centered tribe of Judah did not. Even today they won't let their brethren northern tribes into their stolen name of Israel, the State. That is the one selfish thief on the cross left to deal with.

 

[Clare73]

For now.. it is interesting that at the time the other nations of the House of Israel of the Hebrew people accepted Jesus where the self centered tribe of Judah did not. Even today they won't let their brethren northern tribes into their stolen name of Israel, the State. That is the one selfish thief on the cross left to deal with.

The thieves on the cross were about belief and unbelief, not about irrerlevant (at that moment) selfishness.

 

[timothyu]

The thieves on the cross were about belief and unbelief, not about irrerlevant (at that moment) selfishness.

Belief is in the will of God over the will of man. One thief followed the will of God, the other did not.

 

[Clare73]

Belief is in the will of God over the will of man. One thief followed the will of God, the other did not.

Salvation is by faith in the person and atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin.

 

[timothyu]

Salvation is by faith in the person and atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin.

That's right. Salvation gave us the Kingdom and another life which did not previously exist. We can say it is salvation for us simply because it never existed before and death was a finality. But we will still be judged and are not free of responsibility for our self serving acts.

 

[Clare73]

That's right. Salvation gave us the Kingdom and another life which did not previously exist. We can say it is salvation for us simply because it never existed before and death was a finality. But we will still be judged and are not free of responsibility for our self serving acts.

Adam was created immortal and in righteousness, with God's own divine eternal life within his immortal human spirit.

By his rebellion, Adam lost righteousness, lost God's life within his human spirit (spiritual death), and thereby causing the loss of life in his human body (mortality). Ge 2:17

Adam's descendants are now born in spiritual death (unregenerate) and mortality (physical death).

Adam was created capable of that other "life which did not previously exist," enjoyed it for a very brief time, and then lost it.