Just how Biblical is the whole "no sex until after the wedding ceremony" thing?

[ObeyGODCommandments]

I am aware that the Ezekiel passage is referring to God's covenant with Jerusalem. But since it uses marriage as an analogous covenant, I thought it might shed some light.

The passage from Proverbs is about a marriage covenant that has been broken by an adulterous wife. Since you do not even know that that passage is not speaking of the land of Jerusalem, then this should tell me that you do not understand most of the teachings of the Bible. You should be very worried about this.

Oh okay. As long as you know.

 

[ObeyGODCommandments]

really sinfree? you never get angry or jealous or have moments of selfishness....

cmon we all know NO ONE is sin free...in this lifetime..we all fall short of the glory of god. I agree that we should always strive to be the best...but to think that you have reached a level of sinlessness is a sin in itself..

In the past yes, I've been clean and sober for 9 months now.

Yes we all fall short, but when we come to the truth, which Jesus is the way, we must follow Jesus Christ's example. Jesus was without sin, so we must remain free from sin until Jesus returns. God wants to find us blameless and spotless in the end, not GUILTY and defiled.

Paul teaches that we must put to death the flesh of evil desires. That is what I have done. It was hard at first, but with training in righteous and practicing self control has helped me overcome my sins.

 

[brohammer26]

In the past yes, I've been clean and sober for 9 months now.

Yes we all fall short, but when we come to the truth, which Jesus is the way, we must follow Jesus Christ's example. Jesus was without sin, so we must remain free from sin until Jesus returns. God wants to find us blameless and spotless in the end, not GUILTY and defiled.

Paul teaches that we must put to death the flesh of evil desires. That is what I have done. It was hard at first, but with training in righteous and practicing self control has helped me overcome my sins.

OK to say that you are sinfree is in fact going against scripture which makes you a hypocrite which is a sin.

Yes we must put these things to death...but it doesnt mean that we will ever achieve complete perfection in this life. It is your attitude, heart and intent that matter.

I still think you are trolling...our I dont know just delusional?

 

[Eyesee]

What I hate most about this thread is people seem to be making judgements of myself based on a query. Standing up for Biblical truth is something we are called to do. If I can't find a truth in the Bible..why wouldn't I question it? We are called to seek out truth. That's the point of this thread. To seek truth.

I asked questions and proposed thoughts. I sought biblical council. In the search of truth. If I questioned your responses, it was to further seek truth from you.

With all due respect Chris, not everything needs to be spelled out in order for a believer to know better -- especially when it comes to what you are posting about. That's why God gives us a conscience.

It's disappointing how in the name of "truth" we will dabble in the grey areas instead of doing what is CLEARLY the right thing. As I said in an earlier post; instead of asking "Can I do this and still be a Christian" (and I'm not saying that is what you are saying), we ought to simply move to what is clearly the right thing. So the bible doesn't specifically spell out that we need a marriage certificate to be married - so what? Are people honestly that dull of spirit and that hardened of heart that we need to debate whether being legally married is biblical? REALLY?!?

There are many areas in today's world that are not specifically addressed by the bible, but if you think about it long enough (or better yet pray about it long enough) what is muddy becomes crystal clear. God is a God of law and order. That is why it's a "no duh" concerning whether or not we ought to obey the law concerning what constitutes legal marriage. As long as what man says we ought to do doesn't violate the lawful and moral order that God has set forth, why wouldn't we do it? How about as believers we stop trying to find out how close we can come to the edge of the cliff before falling off, and simply stay away from the edge of the cliff in the first place?

 

[ObeyGODCommandments]

OK to say that you are in fact going against scripture which makes you a hypocrite which is a sin.

Yes we must put these things to death...but it doesnt mean that we will ever achieve complete perfection in this life. It is your attitude, heart and intent that matter.

The law isn't a sin, but people like you consider it to be with your actions and your speech. If I can overcome my sins, than so can you. No excuses! You have to learn how to die to the flesh by putting to death the flesh of carnal evil desires that are implanted in you.

(Colossians 3:5-10) Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

The one who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 24:13).

And no, I'm not a hypocrite. You have no right to call me that unless you saw me committing an orgy in the middle of the church while I yell out to people, "(do not have orgy sex)."

 

[ChrisHolland619]

With all due respect Chris, not everything needs to be spelled out in order for a believer to know better -- especially when it comes to what you are posting about. That's why God gives us a conscience.

It's disappointing how in the name of "truth" we will dabble in the grey areas instead of doing what is CLEARLY the right thing. As I said in an earlier post; instead of asking "Can I do this and still be a Christian" (and I'm not saying that is what you are saying), we ought to simply move to what is clearly the right thing. So the bible doesn't specifically spell out that we need a marriage certificate to be married - so what? Are people honestly that dull of spirit and that hardened of heart that we need to debate whether being legally married is biblical? REALLY?!?

There are many areas in today's world that are not specifically addressed by the bible, but if you think about it long enough (or better yet pray about it long enough) what is muddy becomes crystal clear. God is a God of law and order. That is why it's a "no duh" concerning whether or not we ought to obey the law concerning what constitutes legal marriage. As long as what man says we ought to do doesn't violate the lawful and moral order that God has set forth, why wouldn't we do it? How about as believers we stop trying to find out how close we can come to the edge of the cliff before falling off, and simply stay away from the edge of the cliff in the first place?

But..it's not clearly the right choice. It's not plainly spelled out.

 

[Eyesee]

But..it's not clearly the right choice. It's not plainly spelled out.

Go ahead and list for me God's reasons and yours why being legally (in the eyes of man) married would be a negative or unlawful or unbiblical thing Chris.

 

[ObeyGODCommandments]

With all due respect Chris, not everything needs to be spelled out in order for a believer to know better -- especially when it comes to what you are posting about. That's why God gives us a conscience.

It's disappointing how in the name of "truth" we will dabble in the grey areas instead of doing what is CLEARLY the right thing. As I said in an earlier post; instead of asking "Can I do this and still be a Christian" (and I'm not saying that is what you are saying), we ought to simply move to what is clearly the right thing. So the bible doesn't specifically spell out that we need a marriage certificate to be married - so what? Are people honestly that dull of spirit and that hardened of heart that we need to debate whether being legally married is biblical? REALLY?!?

There are many areas in today's world that are not specifically addressed by the bible, but if you think about it long enough (or better yet pray about it long enough) what is muddy becomes crystal clear. God is a God of law and order. That is why it's a "no duh" concerning whether or not we ought to obey the law concerning what constitutes legal marriage. As long as what man says we ought to do doesn't violate the lawful and moral order that God has set forth, why wouldn't we do it? How about as believers we stop trying to find out how close we can come to the edge of the cliff before falling off, and simply stay away from the edge of the cliff in the first place?

I agree with you there. I do think its crazy for others to debate on such topics like this which isn't all that important. What's more important is obeying God's commandments and doing what is right. If I see someone in sin or someone who is planning to sin, it is my job to correct and rebuke them like the scriptures says to do.

(1 Timothy 5:20) Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.

 

[Johnnz]

There is no one verse you can point to. Generally Christians have accepted some or all of these principles.

a) The first Genesis story established marriage as a covenant between two people, and that sex belongs within that covenant relationship.
b) In condemning idolatry as adultery God expresses the faithfulness of marriage as analogous to faithfulness to Him.
c) Hebrew culture held pre marriage virginity as the standard. This was adopted by Christians. Issues of descent and property rights were of course involved here.
d) In NT times Joseph's intent to withdraw from marriage with Mary after learning she was pregnant exhibits that standard applying at that time.
e) The 'one flesh' is taken to indicate a joining of two people at a deeper level than mere physical union. Thus, sex is seen as part of relationship, not an act independent of either commitment or intimate relationship.

John
NZ

 

[brohammer26]

The law isn't a sin, but people like you consider it to be with your actions and your speech. If I can overcome my sins, than so can you. No excuses! You have to learn how to die to the flesh by putting to death the flesh of carnal evil desires that are implanted in you.

(Colossians 3:5-10) Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

The one who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 24:13).

And no, I'm not a hypocrite. You have no right to call me that unless you saw me committing an orgy in the middle of the church while I yell out to people, "(do not have orgy sex)."

That is a red herring...I am talking about day to day sins in which everyone commits

I just dont meet that many christians that say there are sin free based on their own works. It is a form of legalism to think that yourself alone can overcome it.

I know I am no where near perfect, but I try and a lot of change has occured in me. Ok well I will let this go now...


Romans 3:19

No One Is Righteous

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Righteousness Through Faith Romans 3:21-

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25

 

[aiki]

I wasn't 'given away' at my wedding. Am I therefore guilty of fornication?

What does the giving away accomplish? Why didn't God just let Adam and Eve get it on when they felt like it and let that be what made them married? The giving away is simply a way of formally acknowledging that a couple is entering into the marriage covenant with each other. It distinguishes marriage from mere shacking up (and fornication). Is it necessary for someone to give a woman away? No, I don't think so. I think what is important is the formal acknowledgment by a third party that marriage is taking place, which can be done in a variety of ways.

Selah.

 

[Radagast]

So I am wondering why the final signature on a marriage license by the minister is what makes a couple "married" in God's eyes.

Because before that, both the man and woman can walk away without penalty at any time, and knowing that affects the relationship.

And in many cases (like mine), it is man-made culture of having a big wedding that delays a lot of marriages, because families will not accept couples just going to the courthouse or getting eloped..

In that case it's the families that are the problem. Some people get married at the courthouse, and have a formal church "blessing of the marriage" later, although that's not a great option.

 

[Radagast]

It's ideal to wait but God forgives those who have made mistakes so there is no use in punishing yourself for the rest of your life is you have made a mistake.

That's worth saying too. All sins, including this one, are washed away by the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Radagast]

The best example I have is Baptism. We know from the Word that baptism is an outward expression of an inward change that has already occurred. That means, it's just an example.

Baptism is a lot more than that, my friend.

Baptism is like marriage in a number of ways, though, including the making of a public commitment.

 

[ChrisHolland619]

It's definitely not ok to sin. But Gods grace is not dependent on my obedience. If it was, I'd deserve it. For being good. Then it's not grace.. Because grace is getting what you don't deserve.

 

[ChrisHolland619]

Why does Jesus in Revelation say He is the alpha and the omega? The Beginning and the end? Why does Jesus say He is the same as the Father? Why does Jesus say if you believe on the Father, believe also in Him?

Because Jesus is God.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT


This thread is closed for review. BTW, this particular forum is a non-debate forum.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT


This thread has had some posts removed in clean up - but the thread will stay closed as it is too big to clean up.


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