Jurisdictional Wranglings

[ArmyMatt]

Is the Greek Orthodox branch of Orthodoxy considered the most liberal?

no, but it has some loudly vocally liberal members

 

[ArmyMatt]

Let me try asking another way.

Why are Orthodox always picking on Greek Orthodox?

they’re large, have the most money and political sway, and some parishes seem to care more about being ethnically Greek. to be fair, the latter point is found everywhere it just seems more prevalent in certain Greek parishes.

 

[gzt]

no, but it has some loudly vocally liberal members

Though the most leftist clergyman I know is in the ROCOR!

 

[gzt]

they’re large, have the most money and political sway, and some parishes seem to care more about being ethnically Greek. to be fair, the latter point is found everywhere it just seems more prevalent in certain Greek parishes.

I think a big difference here is the accident of history that, say, the OCA parishes that cared about being ethnically Russian, for instance, largely died out, while there was an influx of Greek immigration in the 1970s to prop them up. We used to have a lot more big OCA parishes in the east... Part of that was also demographics, of course, Greek parishes were/are typically urban while the OCA was in a lot of mining, steel working, etc communities that for a variety of reasons declined...

 

[ArmyMatt]

Though the most leftist clergyman I know is in the ROCOR!

*deleted*

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think a big difference here is the accident of history that, say, the OCA parishes that cared about being ethnically Russian, for instance, largely died out, while there was an influx of Greek immigration in the 1970s to prop them up. We used to have a lot more big OCA parishes in the east... Part of that was also demographics, of course, Greek parishes were/are typically urban while the OCA was in a lot of mining, steel working, etc communities that for a variety of reasons declined...

oh, to be sure

 

[gzt]

everyone has their ...

He's by no means wackidoo, I recommend retracting this slander of your brother clergyman.

 

[ArmyMatt]

He's by no means wackidoo, I recommend retracting this slander of your brother clergyman.

done, and forgive me for slipping on my own standard. sorry about that.

 

[prodromos]

He's by no means wackidoo, I recommend retracting this slander of your brother clergyman.

But you are apparently OK with saying whatever you like about Fr Peter Heers?

 

[gzt]

Do you have any comments of mine in particular in mind? I welcome the opportunity to correct any past wrongs, though also appreciate an apology for the implication if there aren't any.

EDIT: if the issue is grave enough, I may even write a letter of apology to his bishop if you let me know who that is.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Let me try asking another way.

Why are Orthodox always picking on Greek Orthodox?

Because the many GOA around the world are basically subsidizing "Constantinople." And it keeps calling itself the "Ecumenical Patriarchate" when there no longer is a Roman emperor.

 

[E.C.]

Though the most leftist clergyman I know is in the ROCOR!

And ROCOR hasn't defrocked or excommunicated him yet? Interesting.

Because the many GOA around the world are basically subsidizing "Constantinople." And it keeps calling itself the "Ecumenical Patriarchate" when there no longer is a Roman emperor.

And hasn't been one for 570 years! But then again, ROCOR still prays for the so-called "God protected Russian land and holy diaspora". I'm sorry, but if it is so "God protected" (which implies all other lands are not) than why were most rank-and-file Bolsheviks the sons of priests?

 

[Lukaris]

There was an attempt to begin a movement towards a possible unified American Orthodox Church in the 1990s. It seems many American Orthodox wanted to get past the jurisdictions issues but there was internal & external disagreement.

Ligonier Meeting - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[JM]

I find ROCOR to be straight forward, often harsh to Western ears, but honest.

My experience with Greek Orthodoxy 20+ years ago made me flee.

 

[gzt]

And ROCOR hasn't defrocked or excommunicated him yet? Interesting.

ROCOR bishops, especially the Russian ones, are a lot more reasonable than the stereotypes would have you think.

 

[ArmyMatt]

My experience with Greek Orthodoxy 20+ years ago made me flee.

sorry to hear that

 

[rusmeister]

Is the Greek Orthodox branch of Orthodoxy considered the most liberal?

I personally consider it to be so, but that’s recognizing that it’s not monolithically so. All jurisdictions have a range of people with a range of views clergy and laity. But as a general rule, and for reasons pointed out by others in the US (relative size and wealth), as well as in the rest of the world, and more notably in its hierarchy, the Greek Church does tend to be more on the Left side of things, and the “liberal” Orthodox Christians I know personally in the Eastern world decisively line up on the leftist side of issues, on the side of Constantinople against Russia, and of the schismatic Church in the Ukraine vs the canonical one, as well as on the alphabet soup of sexual anarchy and its rebellion against traditional morality.

In the US, I think the relative size and wealth produces relative corruption, and relative worldliness is a result. My mother was an inquirer into the Church before that worldliness and ethnic promotion of Greek everything over evangelization of Americans pushed her away and contributed to her turn to Islam in the last years of her life.

Certainly there are good, normal, traditional-minded, and pious people in the Greek Church; I speak only of the general trend.

 

[abacabb3]

Can someone post an article explaining the Jurisdictions and the issues they have with each other as well as info on who is in communion with who? I know some recent immigrants that are Orthodox and they do not speak English well so I thought I'd help them out.

Thanks

It's not important. Go find your strongest local parish. Until one of the communions becomes RC, they are essentially fair game with the potential exception of the OCU (Ukrainian state church) as they are schismatic by every definition and propped up by persecution--but the OCU does not exist in the diaspora.

 

[gzt]

Yes, I think it's very important to remember St Paul's admonition: For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

 

[gzt]

But you are apparently OK with saying whatever you like about Fr Peter Heers?

Hi, I'm going to have to reiterate: substantiate or apologize/retract your implication.