Jurisdictional Wranglings

[JM]

Can someone post an article explaining the Jurisdictions and the issues they have with each other as well as info on who is in communion with who? I know some recent immigrants that are Orthodox and they do not speak English well so I thought I'd help them out.

Thanks

 

[ArmyMatt]

Can someone post an article explaining the Jurisdictions and the issues they have with each other as well as info on who is in communion with who? I know some recent immigrants that are Orthodox and they do not speak English well so I thought I'd help them out.

Thanks

Russia and Constantinople aren’t in communion with each other, Antioch and Jerusalem aren’t in communion with each other (as far as I know), everyone else is in communion with all those jurisdictions.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Russia and Constantinople aren’t in communion with each other, Antioch and Jerusalem aren’t in communion with each other (as far as I know),

If seemed off-topic for this thread, I would appreciate someone messaging me to provide for my own education the factors creating separation for these jurisdictions. Thank you.

 

[HTacianas]

If seemed off-topic for this thread, I would appreciate someone messaging me to provide for my own education the factors creating separation for these jurisdictions. Thank you.

As for Moscow and Constantinople, this will help:

2018 Moscow–Constantinople schism - Wikipedia

Note that it is not a matter of the essentials of faith. It's a jurisdictional issue.

 

[seeking.IAM]

@HTacianas thank you.

 

[ArmyMatt]

If seemed off-topic for this thread, I would appreciate someone messaging me to provide for my own education the factors creating separation for these jurisdictions. Thank you.

Moscow and Constantinople it’s because of the formation of the OCU, Jerusalem and Antioch is over Jerusalem basically moving clergy into Antioch’s territory as far as I remember.

 

[seeking.IAM]

So basically turf wars?

 

[ArmyMatt]

So basically turf wars?

yes-ish. for us, ecclesiology is theological, so ignoring these issues would be a problem. but this isn’t the first time this has happened, probably won’t be the last.

 

[E.C.]

OP,

Minus what ArmyMatt has pointed out, most of the Orthodox jurisdictions in the USA/Canada are in full Communion with each other. For the most part, we get along, but there are some regions of the country where neighborly relations are not as good as they may be in other parts of the country.

Russia and Constantinople aren’t in communion with each other, Antioch and Jerusalem aren’t in communion with each other (as far as I know), everyone else is in communion with all those jurisdictions.

If you're talking about Qatar (or was it the Emirates?) I believed they hashed that out and have moved on.

However, within the USA there are the Jerusalem Vicariate parishes under the Greeks which Antioch still forbid any interaction with them - mostly over the Ben Lomond Schism of 1998 - however the JV parishes are mostly in California and a few in Colorado.

 

[ArmyMatt]

If you're talking about Qatar (or was it the Emirates?) I believed they hashed that out and have moved on.

Qatar, and thanks be to God they did. so in the States is Constantinople and Moscow.

 

[JM]

Thanks for the help. They are Romanian with access to Greek and Russian Orthodox parishes.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thanks for the help. They are Romanian with access to Greek and Russian Orthodox parishes.

then those two would not be in communion, so if they went to the Russian parish they shouldn’t go to the Greek one, unfortunately.

 

[Not David]

then those two would not be in communion, so if they went to the Russian parish they shouldn’t go to the Greek one, unfortunately.

Is there a rule establishing that Russian laity can't go to Greek parishes?

 

[prodromos]

then those two would not be in communion, so if they went to the Russian parish they shouldn’t go to the Greek one, unfortunately.

We currently divide our time between a Greek parish and a Russian parish. The Greek parish is where we were established when we returned to Australia where as the Russian parish is much closer to home. The priestmonk at the Russian parish was one of the very few who continued to hold services throughout the so called pandemic, at great personal risk. Our Greek parish was literally closed by the archbishop who capitulated to all the government demands. I know of only one Greek priest who continued to hold services for his flock.
My daughter will be getting married at our Greek parish in a few weeks, and our Russian priestmonk will be attending, although not concelebrating.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is there a rule establishing that Russian laity can't go to Greek parishes?

formally, I think it’s just at the clergy level, but sometimes that can unofficially bleed down.

 

[ArmyMatt]

We currently divide our time between a Greek parish and a Russian parish. The Greek parish is where we were established when we returned to Australia where as the Russian parish is much closer to home. The priestmonk at the Russian parish was one of the very few who continued to hold services throughout the so called pandemic, at great personal risk. Our Greek parish was literally closed by the archbishop who capitulated to all the government demands. I know of only one Greek priest who continued to hold services for his flock.
My daughter will be getting married at our Greek parish in a few weeks, and our Russian priestmonk will be attending, although not concelebrating.

yeah, I suspect the current bad blood isn’t as intense in all places (or even most places).

 

[E.C.]

formally, I think it’s just at the clergy level, but sometimes that can unofficially bleed down.

Formally, it is solely at the clergy level. However, the reality is that many Russian laity act as if it applies to them as well. At the beginning of this schism, it did, but the rules were loosened for laity. The sad reality is that these "loosenings" were rarely shared by the clergy.


I have heard that if a 3rd party is hosting a pan-Orthodox event where there are GOARCH clergy concelebrating then the Russian clergy can concelebrate because they are, by technicality, not celebrating with the Greeks

 

[ArmyMatt]

Formally, it is solely at the clergy level. However, the reality is that many Russian laity act as if it applies to them as well. At the beginning of this schism, it did, but the rules were loosened for laity. The sad reality is that these "loosenings" were rarely shared by the clergy.


I have heard that if a 3rd party is hosting a pan-Orthodox event where there are GOARCH clergy concelebrating then the Russian clergy can concelebrate because they are, by technicality, not celebrating with the Greeks

I heard it was similar to ROCOR/OCA, the schism was only when it came to concelebration, and therefore it wasn’t a real schism.

 

[seashale76]

Is there a rule establishing that Russian laity can't go to Greek parishes?

I met a guy (lay person) on-line who was excommunicated because he communed in a Greek parish- even though he was in a situation where there were no other parishes at the time. He had to actually confess that as a sin, I guess, in order to be readmitted.

 

[E.C.]

I met a guy (lay person) on-line who was excommunicated because he communed in a Greek parish- even though he was in a situation where there were no other parishes at the time. He had to actually confess that as a sin, I guess, in order to be readmitted.

That's some phlytist BS if I ever heard it (not you, the situation) and totally sounds like typical Russian pharisitical thinking. Not surprising at all.