Judas was once saved and lost it...

[rnmomof7]

Yes. I think that verse clearly shows that, from the beginning, Christ knew that Judas was not true to him or would not remain so. But he served a purpose. To this extent, he is not to be thought of by us as just another of the Apostles albeit one that experienced a terrible turn in a moment of weakness.

God has always used the evil to accomplish His will .... Judas was selected for the purpose he served... that is to betray Christ..

 

[rnmomof7]

Could Judas have repented? Maybe? I don't know?

The question is could he have repented, he did repent ...

Mat:27:Then Judas, who had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders

Jesus had told the apostles of character of Judas in John 6 and his end in Mark 14: 21For the Son of Man will go just as it is written about Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born."


But he repented as man repents .. not as God has men repent

Acts 1

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas,which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.


Judas fulfilled the plan of God for the salvation of His children ...

 

[D. A. Taylor]

BRAVO LoveofTruth -- good job!

Here's an excerpt from a book I am writing. Please consider adding the subject to your catch:

I want you to read something in Matthew 19:27-28 that is absolutely profound; here Jesus was talking to His twelve apostles:

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Every time I’ve read this, I’ve said to myself: “Yeah, everyone except Judas!”

But Jesus said this very same thing at another time, as related in another gospel, when Christ was eating the final Passover supper with His apostles. Here it is in Luke 22:14:

And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

So consider: this was a private dinner and the only people present in the upper room were Jesus and His twelve apostles.

No one else was there…and that’s extremely important!

Now let’s drop down a few verses to Luke 22:21-22:

But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

So at this final Passover supper, Jesus clearly acknowledged that Judas was present—and that He knew Judas was about to commit the horrible sin of betraying Him.

Now read verses 28-30—from the very same conversation—with the very same thirteen people—telling us what Jesus said right after He acknowledged how Judas would betray Him:

Ye are they [the twelve] which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Perhaps you’re good at arithmetic? How many apostles were in the room? How many judges would be sitting on thrones judging the tribes of Israel?

Read it again, just to make sure…

And remember this was Jesus Christ speaking, so this is the Word of God—right from the mouth of God: and Jesus said Judas would be sitting on one of those twelve thrones!

Impossible you say? No way! Ridiculous! This simply cannot be!

Well, most of Christianity certainly agrees with you…

 

[LoveofTruth]

Could I have that direct quote in context?

Yes, in Matthew 10 . The context is Jesus calling his 12 disciples ( notice 12 not 11 and one devil) and giving them all power to cast out devils etc and sending them forth all 12 as sheep to the lost sheep

"1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed [future tense] him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you....25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord"

also Jesus said .

"26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:26-29

Notice that He said the sheep believe and those who do not believe are not his sheep. So for Jesus to call any his sheep, they believe and have life as he said they would. And he gives them eternal life. And he said the father gave them to Him. We see this also spoken of in John 17:6 when Jesus said of the 12 , before they were given to Jesus

"6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me;..." John 17:6

Showing clearly that all the 12 belonged to the Father once before they were even given to Jesus.

 

[LoveofTruth]

BRAVO LoveofTruth -- good job!

Here's an excerpt from a book I am writing. Please consider adding the subject to your catch:

I want you to read something in Matthew 19:27-28 that is absolutely profound; here Jesus was talking to His twelve apostles:

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Every time I’ve read this, I’ve said to myself: “Yeah, everyone except Judas!”

But Jesus said this very same thing at another time, as related in another gospel, when Christ was eating the final Passover supper with His apostles. Here it is in Luke 22:14:

And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

So consider: this was a private dinner and the only people present in the upper room were Jesus and His twelve apostles.

No one else was there…and that’s extremely important!

Now let’s drop down a few verses to Luke 22:21-22:

But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

So at this final Passover supper, Jesus clearly acknowledged that Judas was present—and that He knew Judas was about to commit the horrible sin of betraying Him.

Now read verses 28-30—from the very same conversation—with the very same thirteen people—telling us what Jesus said right after He acknowledged how Judas would betray Him:

Ye are they [the twelve] which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Perhaps you’re good at arithmetic? How many apostles were in the room? How many judges would be sitting on thrones judging the tribes of Israel?

Read it again, just to make sure…

And remember this was Jesus Christ speaking, so this is the Word of God—right from the mouth of God: and Jesus said Judas would be sitting on one of those twelve thrones!

Impossible you say? No way! Ridiculous! This simply cannot be!

Well, most of Christianity certainly agrees with you…

Hello,

This shows me that right up to the time that Judas betrayed Jesus he had promises for him if he was to abide in him. But when Satan entered into him and when he killed himself ( self murder) we know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them 1 John 3:15. And all murderers go to the lake of fire rev 21 . Judas also was written in the book of life once and with the RIGHTEOUS and he fell by transgression and was blotted out of the book of life. And we know that all those who's names are not written in the lambs book of life will go to the lake of fire.

Judas was lost and he went to his own place, and Jesus said it was better for him if he had not been born. To say that it was better for him to not be born, does not say he will be one day happy in glory judging the twelve tribes and in heaven

Ok hope that helps.

 

[rnmomof7]

BRAVO LoveofTruth -- good job!

Here's an excerpt from a book I am writing. Please consider adding the subject to your catch:

I want you to read something in Matthew 19:27-28 that is absolutely profound; here Jesus was talking to His twelve apostles:

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Every time I’ve read this, I’ve said to myself: “Yeah, everyone except Judas!”

But Jesus said this very same thing at another time, as related in another gospel, when Christ was eating the final Passover supper with His apostles. Here it is in Luke 22:14:

And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

So consider: this was a private dinner and the only people present in the upper room were Jesus and His twelve apostles.

No one else was there…and that’s extremely important!

Now let’s drop down a few verses to Luke 22:21-22:

But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

So at this final Passover supper, Jesus clearly acknowledged that Judas was present—and that He knew Judas was about to commit the horrible sin of betraying Him.

Now read verses 28-30—from the very same conversation—with the very same thirteen people—telling us what Jesus said right after He acknowledged how Judas would betray Him:

Ye are they [the twelve] which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Perhaps you’re good at arithmetic? How many apostles were in the room? How many judges would be sitting on thrones judging the tribes of Israel?

Read it again, just to make sure…

And remember this was Jesus Christ speaking, so this is the Word of God—right from the mouth of God: and Jesus said Judas would be sitting on one of those twelve thrones!

Impossible you say? No way! Ridiculous! This simply cannot be!

Well, most of Christianity certainly agrees with you…

 

[rnmomof7]

καθίσεσθε] you will take your seats upon. Christ, then, is to be understood as already sitting. Moreover, though the promise applies, in a general way, to the twelve disciples, it does not preclude the possibility of one of them failing, through his apostasy, to participate in the fulfilment of the promise; “thronum Judae sumsit alius, Acts 1:20,” Bengel.

 

[rnmomof7]

Yes, in Matthew 10 . The context is Jesus calling his 12 disciples ( notice 12 not 11 and one devil) and giving them all power to cast out devils etc and sending them forth all 12 as sheep to the lost sheep

"1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed [future tense] him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you....25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord"

also Jesus said .

"26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:26-29

Notice that He said the sheep believe and those who do not believe are not his sheep. So for Jesus to call any his sheep, they believe and have life as he said they would. And he gives them eternal life. And he said the father gave them to Him. We see this also spoken of in John 17:6 when Jesus said of the 12 , before they were given to Jesus

"6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me;..." John 17:6

Showing clearly that all the 12 belonged to the Father once before they were even given to Jesus.

 

[rnmomof7]

This says absolutely nothing to substantiate that Judas was ever saved..


Mark 9:38John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him because he wasn't following us."

Luke 9:And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

 

[wogspeaker]

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

Judas performing miracles of healing is a poor argument for his being saved based on Matthew 7. And ironically, by the same passage, many who believe their security depends on their ability, rather than the finished work of Christ my saviour, will receive this same condemnation from the mouth of the Lord. The saved man has works in keeping with repentance, though the works themselves don't save Him. God's amazing grace towards us daily is our only hope while we still reside in this body of death.

 

[pastor marty]

Judas was once saved and then lost it

Judas once saved, and then lost salvation

a scriptural examination

Hello all, please consider this carefully.

Judas was one of the disciples and apostles of Jesus. A apostle is a "sent one" of God. Judas, belonged to Jesus and was one of his disciples as we read,

" And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease." Matthew 10:1

Notice here that Judas was one of Jesus disciples. Jesus called HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES. So Judas was included in the twelve called by Jesus here, and they were HIS , not only eleven disciples and one devil. At this time Judas was not a devil or possesed with the devil. At this time he was saved. For he belonged to Jesus. The clarity here cannot be denied.
Also we read That Jesus gave the twelve (Judas included) here "power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease." How can Satan cast out Satan? If Judas was always a devil as some wrongly teach, then how can he have power given to cast out devils, Jesus told us that Satan can not cast out Satan?
So he was also given power to heal all manner of sickness and disease. If he was an unsaved man he could not do this? Remember Jesus called HIS TWELVE disciples to him. He did not call "HIS" ELEVEN and one a devil. And he gave them ( Judas included) power. To say that the eleven were Jesus disciples and Judas was not is wrong and puts a lie in the writers words here and says that Jesus didn't know the difference from who was saved and who was not. Thats ridiculous. Jesus knew his sheep and they were all his sheep as we shall see.

At this point you may say Judas never belonged to the Father, as the other eleven. But Jesus says differently.

"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."

Here we see that the twelve apostles, (spoken of at this time in the context Judas included) once all belonged to the Father, Jesus said "Thine they were" Judas included, and they were given to Jesus. But Judas became lost vs 12 and as we read in Acts 1 he fell by transgression. How can he fall if he was always fallen? No, he was once saved and then fell away. as we read,

"That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place." Acts 1:25

Notice here, about Judas that he had part of the ministry and apostleship. An apostle is a sent on of God, and a mighty gifting. Judas was one, and had part of the ministry. Part of that ministry was Matthew 10 as we have been reading. And it says he fell by transgression. Notice again here, he "FELL", so he was not always fallen as some wrongly teach. Lets read on more about that ministry of Judas and the other apostles.
Lets read on more about that ministry of Judas and the other apostles. "

Matthew 10:2-4

"2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot..."

Notice that Judas was called an apostle here. God does not consider a person an apostle of Jesus and give them power to cast out devils and raise the dead, if they are a devil, and not saved.

"5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Notice again, the TWElVE Jesus sent forth. So all the commands he gives are for the twelve, not just the eleven and one devil excluded. To try and make the text say that Judas was not one of them is classic biblical twisting. I have sen some try to escape the clear consequece of this whole section because they squirm and get frustrated how clearly it rebukes their false eternal security view and their ideas about Judas. Remember this is at the beginning of Judas ministry, not at the end when he was hardening to Jesus and when he was about to betray Jesus.

Matthew 10:6-9

"6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,"

Notice here that Jesus told the twelve apostles ( Judas included to go to the LOST SHEEP. This is significant because Jesus called them all his sheep, and sent them as sheep to the lost sheep, showing that the twelve were his sheep and saved and had eternal life, as he said before his sheep hear his voice and he knows them and gives them eternal life. And Jesus said specific things here about them being his sheep lets read,

Matthew 10"16

"Behold, I send you [all twelve Judas included] forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

This is so clear and a thundering verse to tear down the strongholds of the eternal security doctrine. The weapon of our God are might through him to the tearing down of strongholds. Jesus sent them ( the twelve, Judas included) as sheep, to the lost sheep. Showing that the twelve apostles ( Judas included) were all his sheep. read this again for clarity,

John 10:27,28
"27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; "

This is clear, all the twelve heard his voice (Judas included) and all twelve followed him (Judas included) and all twelve were given eternal life (Judas included). How much clearer can it be?

Lets read on in Matthew 10

Matthew 10:12,13

"12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you."

So all the twelve (JUDAS INCLUDED) had the peace of God to give to others, Judas included. And more,

Matthew 10:20
"For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

the twelve (Judas included) had the Spirit of the father speaking in them when needed.

Matthew 10:25
"25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? [Judas was of Jesus Household as well as the others]

"Notice here that Jesus is referring to himself as their master, and the twelve (Judas included) as part of his household.

The evidence is mounting so clearly it is undeniable. How can this be denied?

Then we also know that Judas was successful as the others for he obtained part of the ministry Acts 1. And even if we do not see very specific verses that show him alone doing all the things Jesus sent them all to do. We know that he was given power to do that and had the peace of God and the Spirit of the Father in him and was a found sheep sent to the lost sheep as the others.

We also read that Judas "betrayed" Jesus Matthew 3:19 and Matthew 26:25 . To betray someone means to once have the trust of that person as the word betray means. And we read a prophecy about Judas that says,

"Psalms 41:9
Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me."

This is referring to Judas as we read,

"John 13:18
I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

Judas once had the trust of Jesus, showing he was not a devil always, He was the familiar friend of Jesus.Jesus is not the familiar friend of devils and does not ever trust them. And a devil cannot betray Jesus because the word betray means to have the trust of once and to go against that trust.

we also read in Acts about Judas a quote from Psalms 69,

Acts 1:16-20

"16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take."

This is in the Psalms about Judas as we read,


Psalms 69:25-28

25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.
26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous."

Notice that the same ones spoken of ( udas included as we read in Acts) are "blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous." Psalm 69:28 Clearly showing that Judas went to the lake of fire and was once in the book of life and with the righteous. This shows that he was once in the book of life and then blotted out.

We see more about this ministry all the twelve had Judas included and the 70 as well. here we read,

Luke 10:1-23

"1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.
13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.
15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:"

Notice here that this is like Matthew 10 and similar ministry, we read,"the Lord appointed other seventy also". So he sent his sheep the twelve out and seventy others also with them. they were all together and he said to the others also, "I send you forth as lambs among wolves" This is the same thing she said and many other things. But then we read "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven." They had their names written in heaven" and so they were all just as sucessful. Jesus turns to his disciples privately and said that they were blessed ( Judas included)

Yes;right-on;thankyou 4 UR insite. marty

 

[pastor marty]

No we read that Judas was gone to his own place and it was better for him not to have been born, also that his name was blotted out of the book of life, and all those who are not found written in the Lambs book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. It is very clear that he was lost and damned and headed for the lake of fire. as scripture shows

YUP !

 

[pastor marty]

This says absolutely nothing to substantiate that Judas was ever saved..


Mark 9:38John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him because he wasn't following us."

Luke 9:And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.[/QUOTEL
Like UR quotes.Don't know what Judas's status was,don't care.1 deadly sin.! suicide.1 trip 2 Hell. Does that about cover it ??

 

[FutureAndAHope]

and so ALL unrighteousness can be forgiven, no matter how much. Your view their is a human invention not scriptural.

This is partly true (in my opinion), note:

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Some people who are alive God does not want saved. They can never believe. Not because God has selected them prior to creation for damnation, but rather the person has had pleasure in unrighteousness, and they did not repent.

You are right in saying any one who wants salvation can have it, I may have sinned and moved away from God, I may have even entered a state of unbelief, yet if I can trust in the cross I will have salvation, it is available to me. All the scriptures you quoted are true.

But unfortunately for some, there are people who have lived their lives in such a selfish way that even God does not want them saved. So what does God do? He sends them "strong delusion, that they should believe a lie", why so that they will be dammed.

This should cause us to live our lives in reverence and fear, knowing that we need to live righteously.

So when does this delusion occur, not when dead, but when alive. I am guessing Judas was selected due to the fact he was unrighteous, he saw all the miracles, maybe even worked a few of them, but in the end he was sent "strong delusion". What was his delusion, money, he was a thief. God used his sin against him.

So at any given point in time there will be people who can never be saved, why, God has counted then as unworthy.

Mat 13:27 -29 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Note the parable of the tares, God sows good seed, not one man is chosen for hell, yet an enemy (the devil) causes some to become evil. The question is asked "what do we do with the evil ones?", "should we uproot them? (i.e. send them to hell right now)". Jesus says no. Let them grow together, at the end we will do it. Again I believe this shows men can be alive, and irredeemable.

 

[jimmiec]

Would you be so kind as to post where, in scripture, Jesus said this about Judas, and reconcile how Jesus described Judas that was anything but a "friend"?

Jesus said; Matt 15:24 "I come only for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. 12 Sons, Tribes of Jacob. Israel. God's Chosen White Israelites, "of", subject to, White Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, [Shem, the White, Hebrew, Shemite, Semite.] "let us make them in our likeness." Gen., "All darkness is evil." KJV.

Pharisees, of Judah-ism, a "religion hated by god" who hates all 'religions", "isms", of Zion-ism, Liberal-ism, Catholic-ism, Mormon-ism, heathen-ism, Social-ism, etc, Edomites, Canaanan-ites, Ishmaelite, Arab, mongrel, "dogs". "sons of the devil," Matt 15:26, re: not of Jesus' Flock of Lost Sheep, to be brought to the Redeemer that He might Redeem, regain, reclaim God's Chosen Israelites that by Redemption, they shall become Found Sheep. Born again Christians. The only Chosen, "of", subject to, Jesus, Lord, God, Sons of God. PTL !!!

Judas was not a Jew. He was a Pharisee, Edomite. "sons of the devil", 'liar, thief and murderer", " who worshipped the devil". ,,,"in the synagogue of the devil'. The word, Jew, was not in the Hebrew, or Greek Bible, or Orginal 1599,Geneva, 1611 KJV, Perfect, Inspired WORD of God. The Judah-ite, of Judah, 4th Tribe of Israelites, King David, Mary and their Son, Yahshua, Christ, in the flesh, of David, were the seed of Abdam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Yahweh, God's chosen Israel-ites of Israel. White Hebrew.

"Let us make them, Adam and Evil, "in our image". They were White=Pure Spirits as were Adam and Evil, both Spirits, Pure=white, in the White skin of God's "peculiar " people. [ Blond hair, blue eyes like polished stones in water, Adam/red skin] They, like all White Men 'of', subject to, Father God, have a Redeemable Soul. .

There was no Jew. Only "mongrels", KJV. First word, "Jew", a fraud, lie, "in the image of Satan", their god, was put in print by an English Playwrite in 1750. Next put in print of 18th Century NT. "I come only for the Sons of Jacob," Chosen Israelites, not the mongrels, not a pure tribe, nation or people, nor the Pharisee, Edomite, Jew, "dogs", Matt 15:26, who Jesus said; The 'jew", Pharisee, Edom-ite, 740 AD Khazar Zionist of Judah-ism, an Asiatic, Mongul, Turkish Arab, International Elite, Banksters, 1776 Illuminati Zionist, " shall never have a home".' KJV. That includes heaven. Roman 8;44 "Ye "jews", Pharisees, "dogs", are like your father the devil, [not my Father or the God of my Born again Christian Brothers. Chosen Israelites.] "liars, thieves and murderers' 'who worship the devil."

Judas, with Jesus 'knowing Judas was a devil", selected him for a purpose. He needed a traitor. He was never a Born again Christian, a Son of God or Brother of the First Son of God, purified "in the Blood of God's Lamb." Judas, not a Lost Sheep, a Found Sheep, Son of God, BA Christian, was always destined to spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire with his god. Lucifer the devil. He was a Fool. So is the devil of Foolishness, Sinfulness. As are all none Israelite, "dogs", mongrels, 'jews', "sons of the devil? The "chosen 'of", subject to, Satan". The devil.

Jesus or Satan! Choose!! Why no Pure Black men, of S. Africa, , Yellow men of Orient, or "dogs", mongrel", "mix seed", Ishmaelites in Canaan, are not Chosen Israel-ites, of Israel, God's "property", KJV,, and Arab, or Hindu, both White Hebrew and Black, are to enter heaven? Why not? John 3:16 says so? Where? What word promises Jesus' in His statement, "whosoever", believeth shall not perish",, assures all none White, Israel-ite, Saxon, Born again Christians and none Chosen Israel-ites, Israel-is, of 1948 ISREAL CORPORATION, a FRAUD, Ink on Paper, does not exist as a deceits, deceptions of the devil are lies, "mongrel" can be saved? Go to heaven. Spend eternity "in the presence of God." Do all men qualify to be a Son of God through Jesus?

"Whosoever,"? There is no "whosoever" in the Original Hebrew Word of God to be translated into the Greek Holy Bible. There is no "whosoever' in Greek. Is not the English "whosoever" a perversion of a perversion which has not existed in Greek or Hebrew ? If "whosoever" means 'all people', God's Chosen White Israelite and the "mongrels", "dogs" of darkness, may be saved, then, Jesus, Lord Master, our God is a liar and the Creator of Confusion. He does say; "I created Good and Evil."KJV

Matt 15:24 "I come only for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel." God's White Hebrew, Isreal-ites of Israel. Jacob-ites. Only. No "dogs". Matt 15:26.

John 8;44 "Ye Jews are like your father the devil,,,?

How do we defeat the "sons of the devil", Zionist, "dogs", masters over the Obama-ites ? He promised, if We, the People, the Government of "Christian America, 1776", the Church, will come together as the Body of Christ, Trust and Obey, He shall, must, "heal our Land."

John 14;14 "If Ye ask Anything "in My name" I shall do it.'

II Chron 7:14 "If My people , who are called by My name, will humble themselves, pray, seek My face, turn from their evil [PC tainted, Foolish, Sinful] ways, I will, shall, must, hear from heaven and Heal your Land."

PTL !! Thank You King Jesus !!

Yahweh is the Promise Keeper. With the Power of God on the tip of our tongue, if we will Trust and Obey the King of kings, how can we lose any war with God's Enemy? Satan. No. Judas, a "dog", Pharisee Zionist, [jew?] "liar, thief and murderer",KJV,, will not enter the Pearly Gates. Only God's Chosen Judahites, Israelites, Born again Christians, "kings", "in his image" , will "Spend Eternity in the Presence of Eloheim. Jehovah God.'

Zech 13:8 Actually 1/3rd of Israel-ites will be redemmed on Jufgment Day. 2/3rds shall, must, be destroyed before Jesus intervenes to save the remnant.

Thank You Lord God! jim

 

[LOOM]

Hi guys. I've been reading through the whole post and its very interesting. I'm not as well versed as some of you, but can someone just please explain something to me. If you can lose your salvation, then what's the point of Jesus dying on the cross for us? I mean it says in Romans 6:9-11

9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[adhidarmawijaya]

Judas was written in the book of life and the ones in that book were only the righteous, as scripture says, he was blotted out of the book of life "and bot written with the righteous". This corrects the mistake that unrighteous people are in there. The expression the lamb slain from the foundation of the world refers to the first sin offering by Abel, I believe and the gospel was shown in type and God had the plan from the foundation of the world. The other words about those who were not written in the Lambs book of life, shows that the unbelievers were not in that book simply, and that book was set in motion as to the plan of salvation, which all must come into or be lost. They were lost, whether they had been blotted out of it or not, it was set in motion and the plan was from the beginning. God has had this plan for a long time since the foundation of the world. This is also like predestination, God predestined the "PLAN of Salvation " for all those he foreknew who would repent and believe. The plan was to be formed to the image of his son, that is where they would end up and Gods plan for them. This would be their final destination if they abide in him. God has predestined that all those who believe in him and continue in the faith until the end, shall be conformed to the image of His Son.

The content of the book of life is like a blue print of a great plan (names that belongs to God/His people/He plans for His own glory/ names who are born of God /names He plans to be created).
This blue print should be done first, before it can be executed ( written before the foundation of the world ) , so "should be in past perfect" and the removing process (names who are the loser )"should be in present continues ".

And Judas was not in there, since he was representation of the devil himself , so he was not the one of the removed names .

If the content of the book of life are A,B,C,D,E,F,G ( 7 names ), and the men ever lived in the earth from the beginning until the end (destroyed in fire ) are 66 persons , so 7 from these 66 are created by God and the rest 59 are the devil themselves (persons who are born of flesh actually are the representation of the devil them selves (the kloning men are included here) ) [ John8:44, 1John3:12, Mat8:28-32 ] .
That is the reason of the verses below:

Rom9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi guys. I've been reading through the whole post and its very interesting. I'm not as well versed as some of you, but can someone just please explain something to me. If you can lose your salvation, then what's the point of Jesus dying on the cross for us? I mean it says in Romans 6:9-11

I guess a similar question could be asked, what was the point of Jesus dying, if anyone could go to hell. The fact is some people will go to hell. Just because a person accepts Christ at some point does not mean they can't loose it. Hebrews 6 explains this. But that scripture you provided does make a valid point, the cross of Christ is for all sins, a lifetime of sins. This means any person can repent and be forgiven for any sin. Because the cross is available.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Whether we make it or not as a Christian is determined by who we obey, either God leading to life, or unrighteousness (sin) leading to death. It is a bit like this, imagine we are in the ocean, with out a flotation device we will sink and drown. The cross is the flotation device that keeps us alive while we wait for Christ to come rescue us. Sin is like weight we add to our selves. If we constantly add sin to our lives, we get heavy, and it does not matter how good the flotation device is, we will eventually sink and drown. Sin, habitual sin, binds us to blindness (spiritually speaking). If we are a habitual sinner Satan has a right to cause us blindness, eventually if we keep unrepentant sin we will no longer see the cross, or christ, we will fall away. If we are alive (due to the cross being available), we could repent. But if we love our sin more than Christ we will perish.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Rom9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Election is a messy issue. But it is my firm opinion that election does not extend to a persons salvation. Election is the means by which God maintains his plan for free will salvation. God is love a loving God would not predestinate people to hell. It makes far more sense to see free will as the catalyst for salvation, as the bible says God is long suffering not willing that any should perish but all should have life.

 

[Alawishis]

Judas was once saved and then lost it

Judas once saved, and then lost salvation

a scriptural examination

Hello all, please consider this carefully.

Judas was one of the disciples and apostles of Jesus. A apostle is a "sent one" of God. Judas, belonged to Jesus and was one of his disciples as we read,

" And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease." Matthew 10:1

Notice here that Judas was one of Jesus disciples. Jesus called HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES. So Judas was included in the twelve called by Jesus here, and they were HIS , not only eleven disciples and one devil. At this time Judas was not a devil or possesed with the devil. At this time he was saved. For he belonged to Jesus. The clarity here cannot be denied.
Also we read That Jesus gave the twelve (Judas included) here "power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease." How can Satan cast out Satan? If Judas was always a devil as some wrongly teach, then how can he have power given to cast out devils, Jesus told us that Satan can not cast out Satan?
So he was also given power to heal all manner of sickness and disease. If he was an unsaved man he could not do this? Remember Jesus called HIS TWELVE disciples to him. He did not call "HIS" ELEVEN and one a devil. And he gave them ( Judas included) power. To say that the eleven were Jesus disciples and Judas was not is wrong and puts a lie in the writers words here and says that Jesus didn't know the difference from who was saved and who was not. Thats ridiculous. Jesus knew his sheep and they were all his sheep as we shall see.

At this point you may say Judas never belonged to the Father, as the other eleven. But Jesus says differently.

"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."

Here we see that the twelve apostles, (spoken of at this time in the context Judas included) once all belonged to the Father, Jesus said "Thine they were" Judas included, and they were given to Jesus. But Judas became lost vs 12 and as we read in Acts 1 he fell by transgression. How can he fall if he was always fallen? No, he was once saved and then fell away. as we read,

"That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place." Acts 1:25

Notice here, about Judas that he had part of the ministry and apostleship. An apostle is a sent on of God, and a mighty gifting. Judas was one, and had part of the ministry. Part of that ministry was Matthew 10 as we have been reading. And it says he fell by transgression. Notice again here, he "FELL", so he was not always fallen as some wrongly teach. Lets read on more about that ministry of Judas and the other apostles.
Lets read on more about that ministry of Judas and the other apostles. "

Matthew 10:2-4

"2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot..."

Notice that Judas was called an apostle here. God does not consider a person an apostle of Jesus and give them power to cast out devils and raise the dead, if they are a devil, and not saved.

"5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Notice again, the TWElVE Jesus sent forth. So all the commands he gives are for the twelve, not just the eleven and one devil excluded. To try and make the text say that Judas was not one of them is classic biblical twisting. I have sen some try to escape the clear consequece of this whole section because they squirm and get frustrated how clearly it rebukes their false eternal security view and their ideas about Judas. Remember this is at the beginning of Judas ministry, not at the end when he was hardening to Jesus and when he was about to betray Jesus.

Matthew 10:6-9

"6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,"

Notice here that Jesus told the twelve apostles ( Judas included to go to the LOST SHEEP. This is significant because Jesus called them all his sheep, and sent them as sheep to the lost sheep, showing that the twelve were his sheep and saved and had eternal life, as he said before his sheep hear his voice and he knows them and gives them eternal life. And Jesus said specific things here about them being his sheep lets read,

Matthew 10"16

"Behold, I send you [all twelve Judas included] forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

This is so clear and a thundering verse to tear down the strongholds of the eternal security doctrine. The weapon of our God are might through him to the tearing down of strongholds. Jesus sent them ( the twelve, Judas included) as sheep, to the lost sheep. Showing that the twelve apostles ( Judas included) were all his sheep. read this again for clarity,

John 10:27,28
"27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; "

This is clear, all the twelve heard his voice (Judas included) and all twelve followed him (Judas included) and all twelve were given eternal life (Judas included). How much clearer can it be?

Lets read on in Matthew 10

Matthew 10:12,13

"12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you."

So all the twelve (JUDAS INCLUDED) had the peace of God to give to others, Judas included. And more,

Matthew 10:20
"For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

the twelve (Judas included) had the Spirit of the father speaking in them when needed.

Matthew 10:25
"25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? [Judas was of Jesus Household as well as the others]

"Notice here that Jesus is referring to himself as their master, and the twelve (Judas included) as part of his household.

The evidence is mounting so clearly it is undeniable. How can this be denied?

Then we also know that Judas was successful as the others for he obtained part of the ministry Acts 1. And even if we do not see very specific verses that show him alone doing all the things Jesus sent them all to do. We know that he was given power to do that and had the peace of God and the Spirit of the Father in him and was a found sheep sent to the lost sheep as the others.

We also read that Judas "betrayed" Jesus Matthew 3:19 and Matthew 26:25 . To betray someone means to once have the trust of that person as the word betray means. And we read a prophecy about Judas that says,

"Psalms 41:9
Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me."

This is referring to Judas as we read,

"John 13:18
I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

Judas once had the trust of Jesus, showing he was not a devil always, He was the familiar friend of Jesus.Jesus is not the familiar friend of devils and does not ever trust them. And a devil cannot betray Jesus because the word betray means to have the trust of once and to go against that trust.

we also read in Acts about Judas a quote from Psalms 69,

Acts 1:16-20

"16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take."

This is in the Psalms about Judas as we read,


Psalms 69:25-28

25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.
26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous."

Notice that the same ones spoken of ( udas included as we read in Acts) are "blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous." Psalm 69:28 Clearly showing that Judas went to the lake of fire and was once in the book of life and with the righteous. This shows that he was once in the book of life and then blotted out.

We see more about this ministry all the twelve had Judas included and the 70 as well. here we read,

Luke 10:1-23

"1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.
13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.
15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:"

Notice here that this is like Matthew 10 and similar ministry, we read,"the Lord appointed other seventy also". So he sent his sheep the twelve out and seventy others also with them. they were all together and he said to the others also, "I send you forth as lambs among wolves" This is the same thing she said and many other things. But then we read "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven." They had their names written in heaven" and so they were all just as sucessful. Jesus turns to his disciples privately and said that they were blessed ( Judas included)

I agree and so was King Saul among others. God does not and will not force us to be saved. A big part of love is respecting others and the choices they make even if it means being rejected. It breaks God's heart to see us turn from Him, but He loves us too much to undermine our choice and our freedom. If we do choose Him there is no force on earth that can remove us from His kingdom. The only force that can defeat God saving us , is us. John Calvin was confused by wording of certain passages in the bible that if you dwell on them alone does make it seem like once saved always saved. But when you really look at the entire bible and think about what love is all about and the nature of God, it's clear it all bout our choice. Christ died on the cross so that we may have this choice. Why would God choose for some to be lost, makes no sense at all.