Judas - Forgiven or Not?

[OntheDL]

The sad aspect of Judas' experience is that he bore a burden He did not have to bear. This is why when Jesus appeared He told the women to tell the disciples "and" Peter. He singled out Peter for mention because Peter had betrayed Him. Too many are running around carrying burdens that were long ago taken care off. At the cross Jesus forgave ALL our sins: past, present and future.

I was taught to believe this when I was attending Pentecostal and Baptist churches.

Convergence of theology!

 

[StormyOne]

We have always believed that the Scripture is the infallible Word of God.

really? I don't think so....

 

[StormyOne]

Is there any evidence that it isn't?

yep.... God didn't write it.... you can start right there...

 

[StormyOne]

We have always believed that the Scripture is the infallible Word of God.

You know you all keep telling me you are adventists, but I scratch my head and wonder.....

From EGW, you all know her right?

The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen. Look at the different writers. {1SM 21.1}
It is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. Inspiration acts not on the man's words or his expressions but on the man himself, who, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. But the words receive the impress of the individual mind. The divine mind is diffused. The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the word of God.-- EGW, Manuscript 24, 1886

 

[mva1985]

really? I don't think so....

I mean corporately as a church. Maybe not as individuals.

 

[StormyOne]

I mean corporately as a church. Maybe not as individuals.

nope not even as a church.....

As to infallibility, Mrs. White plainly writes, "I never claimed it; God alone is infallible." Again she stated that "God and heaven alone are infallible" (Selected Messages, book 1, p. 37). While she claimed that "God's Word is infallible" (ibid., p. 416), we will see below that she did not mean that the Bible (or her writings) were free from error at all points.

To the contrary, in the introduction to The Great Controversy she sets forth her position quite concisely: "The Holy Scriptures are to be accepted as an authoritative, infallible revelation of His will" (p. vii). That is, she did not claim that the work of God's prophets is infallible in all its details, but that it is infallible in terms of revealing God's will to men and women. In a similar statement Ellen White commented that "His Word . . . is plain on every point essential to the salvation of the soul" (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 706).

W. C. White treats the same issue when he observes: "Where she has followed the description of historians or the exposition of Adventist writers, I believe that God has given her discernment to use that which is correct and in harmony with truth regarding all matters essential to salvation. If it should be found by faithful study that she has followed some expositions of prophecy which in some detail regarding dates we cannot harmonize with our understanding of secular history, it does not influence my confidence in her writings as a whole any more than my confidence in the Bible is influenced by the fact that I cannot harmonize many of the statements regarding chronology" (Selected Messages, book 3, pp. 449, 450; italics supplied).

In summary, it appears that Mrs. White's use of the term infallibility has to do with the Bible being completely trustworthy as a guide to salvation. She doesn't mix that idea with the concept that the Bible or her writings are free from all possible errors of a factual nature.

 

[mva1985]

Stormy,

This last sentence sums it up:
"The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the word of God.-- EGW, Manuscript 24, 1886"

 

[Endium]

I'm a little confused. Sent, are you saying that where the Bible says Satan entered Judas, that statement was wrong because the author didnt know what he was talking about?

 

[StormyOne]

Stormy,

This last sentence sums it up:
"The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the word of God.-- EGW, Manuscript 24, 1886"

ummm no you didn't read everything she said... but that's fine... I know where you stand on this position.... I just don't share it....

 

[sentipente]

We have always believed that the Scripture is the infallible Word of God.

How long have you been an Adventist?

 

[mva1985]

ummm no you didn't read everything she said... but that's fine... I know where you stand on this position.... I just don't share it....

I really did (really Stormy I did) read the whole quote several times, but I feel that the sentence sums up the paragraph.

 

[mva1985]

How long have you been an Adventist?

Since I was about four. Baptized at about twelve. My real conversion took place in Oct. 1994.

 

[StormyOne]

I really did (really Stormy I did) read the whole quote several times, but I feel that the sentence sums up the paragraph.

yep.... figures..... have a nice day....

 

[sentipente]

Since I was about four. Baptized at about twelve. My real conversion took place in Oct. 1994.

Maybe you should be a bit more cautious about telling me what "we have always believed."

 

[moicherie]

We have always believed that the Scripture is the infallible Word of God.

It would be if the Creator personally wrote it. He did not so what does that tell you?

 

[mva1985]

Maybe you should be a bit more cautious about telling me what "we have always believed."

I did clarify in a previous post that I meant corporately not individually.

 

[mva1985]

It would be if the Creator personally wrote it. He did not so what does that tell you?

Well, first God did personally write the Ten Commandments. Secondly, He inspired men to write the Bible - I trust God and I trust in His Inspiration.

 

[Mankin]

In the book of 2 Timothy, Paul says that he does not allow women to teach men. He says he does not allow women not God does not allow women. Not every verse in the Bible is made to be taken literaly, some of it is allegorical. Some of what Paul says is advice.

 

[mva1985]

In the book of 2 Timothy, Paul says that he does not allow women to teach men. He says he does not allow women not God does not allow women. Not every verse in the Bible is made to be taken literaly, some of it is allegorical. Some of what Paul says is advice.

In some places I would have to agree with you, but he was an inspired writer of the Bible so his advice could be right on the mark. Paul I'm sure had a much closer walk with the Lord then I do so I would have to defer to him.

 

[StormyOne]

In some places I would have to agree with you, but he was an inspired writer of the Bible so his advice could be right on the mark. Paul I'm sure had a much closer walk with the Lord then I do so I would have to defer to him.

or not.... his advice for this day and age is wrong..... you are making the assumption that the thought God inspired was correctly put into writing....