Joseph Prince?

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RychusRkr

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Good meeting you too Harry!!

I think we're once saved always saved if we decide to be. I do think the scripture alludes to the fact we can decide not to be as well. There's lot's of "If scriptures in the new testament. One day I'm gonna have to chronicle them. Also lots of 'works' scriptures as well. especially from words of Jesus, James and Revelations. Paul also.. Galations 5 'those who practice such things... etc". I'm not saying I have full revelation on Grace vs works and even the full impications of salvation. There's lots of scriptures to consider and weigh when formulating your belief system..


Keep Studying!!
 
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RychusRkr

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Some people are so dogmatic, you can never discuss and share the word with them... (not applicable to anyone here, I'm sure!!).

But I've got several christian friends who have gotten that way, they think it's their personal mission to 'convert' me to their private revelation.

2 I know, both come out of the great church I go to. Good messages but nothing too hard core, sort of middle of the road but a good balanced 'word of faith' on the lite side church.

so one guy gets a personal revelation of extreme grace. Now he critisizes the church and most others and you can't even talk to this guy with him shoving his extreme grace. you can't blow your nose and not be works based nose blowing..

the other guy, him and his wife were visiting with us last week, He's gotten off on the Swaggart, message of the cross thing. Good I would think, except he's just harping on me about that Jesus didn't die for our sins cause when he said 'it is finished' the complete price was paid and his suffering on the cross was all was needed. No need to die for us or our sins. After he left I found tons of scriptures saying Christ died for us not just suffered on the cross only but ACTUALLY died for us and rose from the dead. He's Big Swaggart disciple now and him and his wife sat arms crossed and a scowl through a VERY anointed worship service cause it had kind of a rock sound and you know Swaggarts AGAINST that devil music in God's house and if dosn't have that southern gospel swing... It's of the DEEVALL!!!..

Lets talk baseball...
 
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Andrea411

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Hello RychusRkr, and welcome to our forum... (and a big AMEN!)

You will find that there are several "seasoned" brothers and sisters on this forum that DO believe their salvation is Eternally Securred... myself included. Not "ALL" of us believe this, however. We have done, did, and do debate on this subject... among many others in which we do not all agree. What WE do agree is... that we LOVE one another as John stated in... (1 John 3:23). You will also find that even on some WoF issues... that we don't all agree on.

Your quote above is excellent and shows you walk in His LOVE. We would LOVE to have you as a regular.




Once again... AMEN! You won't find any disagreements on what you're saying here. Yes... Thank God for His Grace... and His MERCY. I compare them to a coin. His Grace on one side gives us what we do not deserve... and Mercy on the other side does not give us what we really do deserve.

Once again... Welcome :wave:

Harry...


...and it is so nice when we who disagree do so while remaining in His love and unity.
I am always so satiated by His love when I go to a spirit-filled prayer meeting, pray my heart out with other Christians and then afterwards talk to them and find out we disagree on so many things and we laugh about it....

I think of them as when we were in prayer... none of our doctrines made a difference... and it doesn't make a difference to our Lord either. He doesn't love me bc I'm right, he loves me bc I'm His child. I'd be in big trouble if I always had to be right and my salvation would be like petals on a flower, saved today, not saved today, saved today, not saved... our salvation is based on His mercy and His work... but I still need to believe it.

God bless, hope we get to disagree together soon...:wave:
 
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Andrea411

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Some people are so dogmatic, you can never discuss and share the word with them... (not applicable to anyone here, I'm sure!!).

But I've got several christian friends who have gotten that way, they think it's their personal mission to 'convert' me to their private revelation.

2 I know, both come out of the great church I go to. Good messages but nothing too hard core, sort of middle of the road but a good balanced 'word of faith' on the lite side church.

so one guy gets a personal revelation of extreme grace. Now he critisizes the church and most others and you can't even talk to this guy with him shoving his extreme grace. you can't blow your nose and not be works based nose blowing..

the other guy, him and his wife were visiting with us last week, He's gotten off on the Swaggart, message of the cross thing. Good I would think, except he's just harping on me about that Jesus didn't die for our sins cause when he said 'it is finished' the complete price was paid and his suffering on the cross was all was needed. No need to die for us or our sins. After he left I found tons of scriptures saying Christ died for us not just suffered on the cross only but ACTUALLY died for us and rose from the dead. He's Big Swaggart disciple now and him and his wife sat arms crossed and a scowl through a VERY anointed worship service cause it had kind of a rock sound and you know Swaggarts AGAINST that devil music in God's house and if dosn't have that southern gospel swing... It's of the DEEVALL!!!..

Lets talk baseball...

we should all keep notebooks and go back and read them every five to ten years and watch the changes .... I think every new Christian must go through the legalistic stage. How do you know how hopeless it is until you try? My heart lights up when I think of His mercy for me simply bc I know there is no way I can do this on my own. I thought I could for about a week.... and I tried again and again... I had to give up and give myself to the Lord in this awful state. Pleading Lord, I'm a sinner and I can't stop but I can't let go of You either, "what can I do".
................ I actually was addicted to drugs... went to the Lord and told Him, I knew I would have to go to hell but that I would be the only one there that still loved Him.... (only babes in Christ can be so silly and so sincere). He gave me a vision and put His arms out to me and said" but "I" won't let you. That was when I learned it was on His shoulders that my salvation hung and not on me. I did another line of meth and went about my day, knowing that somehow Jesus was going to keep me even while I couldn't see a way.
Two weeks later I realized, I had not refilled my stash... I was clean, set free from my addiction through no work on my own... I simply gave up. Jesus did it. I am forever grateful....

There are some people who think that twangy music or any instruments are sinful too.... and if their hearts are sincere and they aren't condemning others, We need to respect their beliefs... as Paul said, as to one weaker in faith, the stronger should be all the more gracious to them...
 
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RychusRkr

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I can respect other's differences. My issue in my story is the friends were like JUMPING on me with harping and preaching at me like the whole time trying to get me to agree with their new 'revelation', one of extreme grace and one of extreme cross. truth in the ditch at the expense of other truths. I don't know why they were so bent on 'convincing me, its like I lost these friends, both critisizing my church, one compaining we don't preach grace enough, the other said we don't preach the message of the cross enough.. how 'bout them Royals!! :cool:
 
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hhodgson

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...and it is so nice when we who disagree do so while remaining in His love and unity. I am always so satiated by His love when I go to a spirit-filled prayer meeting, pray my heart out with other Christians and then afterwards talk to them and find out we disagree on so many things and we laugh about it....

Very well said Andrea...

The renewal of our minds is an important part in the process of unity. We can coexist with others, but we cannot truly be in unity with other Christians until we begin to be of the same mind of... walking in His LOVE
as you have expressed. God's LOVE is not bound by doctrine, but true unity is. LOVE is the bond of perfection that holds us together, but there must be a shared foundation of core doctrinal beliefs in order to have real unity.... (again... Nice quote).

God bless, hope we get to disagree together soon...
idea.gif
With my peanut brain... this quote stumps me a little to say the least. Are you planning on "beating" me up if we're in disagreement about something? I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but my lack of understanding of the meaning is making
me a little nervous.
nervous.gif


I actually was addicted to drugs... went to the Lord and told Him, I knew I would have to go to hell but that I would be the only one there that still loved Him.... (only babes in Christ can be so silly and so sincere). He gave me a vision and put His arms out to me and said" but "I" won't let you. That was when I learned it was on His shoulders that my salvation hung and not on me. I did another line of meth and went about my day, knowing that somehow Jesus was going to keep me even while I couldn't see a way.

Wonderful quote... and wonderful vision from God... "but I won't let you (go to hell) because your salvation is resting on My shoulders and NOT on yours and what you have done" (paraphrased). And... knowing that somehow He was going to KEEP you even while you couldn't see a way. (I don't see any "ifs" in His vision)

Why..?

Sounds like Eternal Security to me. You... have been Chosen... You are a Purchased possession... meaning, (you are not your own)... You are Sealed... You are Predestined... You are Glorified... You are Reconciled...
You are Forgiven... You are Crucified... You are Whosoever... You are His Heir... You are Crowned... You are Sanctified, Justified, Complete, Perfected, Righteous, Preserved, Kept by Him, and... Guaranteed! In the eyes of Jesus... You are Innocent.

Why..?

This is called GRACE... unmerited, undeserved, and unearned.

THE BLESSING
--------------
Harry...

 
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Andrea411

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Very well said Andrea...

The renewal of our minds is an important part in the process of unity. We can coexist with others, but we cannot truly be in unity with other Christians until we begin to be of the same mind of... walking in His LOVE
as you have expressed. God's LOVE is not bound by doctrine, but true unity is. LOVE is the bond of perfection that holds us together, but there must be a shared foundation of core doctrinal beliefs in order to have real unity.... (again... Nice quote).


idea.gif
With my peanut brain... this quote stumps me a little to say the least. Are you planning on "beating" me up if we're in disagreement about something? I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but my lack of understanding of the meaning is making
me a little nervous.
nervous.gif

No. I was laughing. I enjoy interacting with you and we disagree about a few things, not the essentials. I'm sure we'll both find one of the three major creeds to agree on. I have looked at OSAS for many years. We will disagree. That is fine and I am always glad when I have the opportunity to disagree (discuss differences) with people who do it in a manner that is edifying. Ultimately, this will either change someone's stance or edify them. That's as it should be when Christians who love the Lord interact. Even while they disagree.


Wonderful quote... and wonderful vision from God... "but I won't let you (go to hell) because your salvation is resting on My shoulders and NOT on yours and what you have done" (paraphrased). And... knowing that somehow He was going to KEEP you even while you couldn't see a way. (I don't see any "ifs" in His vision)
It was life changing, it made me realize that the Lord had started the work in me and He was able to finish it. Early in my walk He gave me a number of visions that helped me see what I was unable to see with my broken self. So much condemnation from within that I couldn't read the scriptures without wanting to give up. The Lord spoke to me in many ways. I had been a hard core atheist, raised in an atheist home and the mormons knocked on my door right after I got saved so the Lord propped me up and set me in His direction. I had another vision of following Him with my eyes looking up, sometimes I would stumble and fall bc I was looking up, but He showed me as long as my eyes were on Him, I would eventually arrive at my desired destination, although it promised to be an adventure. It was not easy, but a good hike is good for us and when we arrive at the mountain top we will have learned enough to go back down and bring folks with us next time... LOL. In one vision the Lord can teach lessons that take some years if we are willing. I was such a babe, I didn't know the Lord doesn't speak to everyone like that.... I thopught everyone got visions and the Lord would help me find my keys when I lost them and tell me what scriptures to read... it was a very intimate time. I am always so grateful.
When it comes to doctrinal differences, I always ask if I am more saved today then when I didn't know anything??? Its been 31 years, am I more saved bc I have read all those books, studied all those theological perspectives and argued all those doctrines. I was so so so saved the first day... there is no "more saved".
That said, I have seen people walk away..... I don't think the lord ever forces Himself on anyone. To not allow them the freedom to leave would be coercion..... therefore OSAS is not something I support.
Jesus always walked away, His followers had to follow Him. He did not force anyone to listen and learn.
God bless, andrea


Why..?

Sounds like Eternal Security to me. You... have been Chosen... You are a Purchased possession... meaning, (you are not your own)... You are Sealed... You are Predestined... You are Glorified... You are Reconciled...
You are Forgiven... You are Crucified... You are Whosoever... You are His Heir... You are Crowned... You are Sanctified, Justified, Complete, Perfected, Righteous, Preserved, Kept by Him, and... Guaranteed! In the eyes of Jesus... You are Innocent.

Why..?

This is called GRACE... unmerited, undeserved, and unearned.

..and as long as I desire Him, He will make sure I finish the race - even if I run really bad and limp across the finish line, it was never under my own power anyway..... but if I choose to turn away, He will not force me to stay.... no worries, where would I go? He has the words of eternal life.... those words and His resurrection power are available to us in this life... He sustains me and I will never understand why some choose another way but they do...

THE BLESSING
--------------
Harry...

God bless, andrea :wave:

:wave::wave:
 
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Andrea411

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Jesus LOVES you too andrea... (But I'm His Favorite!)
nonchalant.gif



THE BLESSING
____________
Harry...

Yes you are his favorite... and I am too as is my husband and my daughter. I love to remind people how omnipotent our God is... there are no limits to His wonder, grace and goodness. There is room for us all to be His favorite... but you should see the looks I get sometimes when I tell people I'm God's favorite... LOL :D
 
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Andrea411

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We are secure in our salvation as long as we stay in His security. sorry, big believer in free will here. It's Gods greatest gift to man. And yes He say whosever WILL... many times.. Never forces man's WILL.

My thought too... I heard someone say today (listening to Derek Prince) God does not dominate his followers, we follow by choice not force. D.P. said, when you feel dominated that's an indication its satanic or carnal...

The Lord said, if I be lifted up, I will "DRAW" all men unto me...
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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I get his daily grace inspirations, and I think my husband donates to his church, and we watch and listen to his sermons sometimes. :) I like him but not to be mean but sometimes it's hard for me to understand him.

Yeah, his accent can be heavy at times. The more you listen to him, though, the easier it will get. :)
 
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Hishandmaiden

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Yes you are his favorite... and I am too as is my husband and my daughter. I love to remind people how omnipotent our God is... there are no limits to His wonder, grace and goodness. There is room for us all to be His favorite... but you should see the looks I get sometimes when I tell people I'm God's favorite... LOL :D

Amen.
Isn't it wonderful we serve a God who look on us all as His favourite, irregardless of what we do in life?
 
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hhodgson

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I watch my brother from time to time. I love him and agree with his teaching on grace, but we need to go even a little deeper. God wants us all completely free from sin. He that commits sin is a servant unto sin. If the Son makes you free you shall be free indeed. (John 8:34)

We don't need to go any deeper then the finished work of Christ that was forever accomplished and forever settled at the cross. We "have been" reconciled to God when we received Him as our Savior. God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, "not imputing their sins unto them" (2 Cor. 5:19).

When we died with Christ (crucified with Him), we are "no longer" slaves to sin... for we were (set free) from the power of sin (Romans 6:7). As you quoted from (John 8:34) If the Son makes you free you SHALL be FREE indeed. Already done deal.

Joseph Prince is awesome. Highly recommend his book, "Destined to Reign."

Welcome to the forum.

Walk in... The Blessing

Harry...
 
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LeoLion

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This is much deeper;
John 1 Behold the Lamb of God which take away the sin of the world. If you are free indeed like I am and like you claim to be then you will have no more CONSCIENCE OF SIN.
1 John 3:8-9 KJV
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
If you are truly born of God not of the will of man or will of the flesh,but of God you are no longer a child of the devil and no longer a SINNER. It's not the truth you read that makes you free,but the truth you know that makes you FREE! I know the truth and the truth has made me FREE! Hallelujah! All glory to God amen. I know the scriptures as well as the next brother or sister in Christ. It is through diligence that we are rewarded. Revelation comes from God. This I know that I know that I know. Some people seem to still think they are adopted which is misleading in the scriptures. We are BORN (BEGOTTEN) of the Father by the Spirit of God. This is revelation. Something you get from God that's not just words written. It is the Spirit of God that takes us into the deep things of God and causes scripture to become quick and powerful. (LIVING) Do not think of man more highly than you ought. We are all nothing in the body of Christ and JESUS should be EVERYTHING. Man is just the tool or instrument or vessel in which God works. To God be all the glory always. Amen
 
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hhodgson

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This is much deeper;
John 1 Behold the Lamb of God which take away the sin of the world. If you are free indeed like I am and like you claim to be then you will have no more CONSCIENCE OF SIN.
1 John 3:8-9 KJV
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
If you are truly born of God not of the will of man or will of the flesh,but of God you are no longer a child of the devil and no longer a SINNER. It's not the truth you read that makes you free,but the truth you know that makes you FREE! I know the truth and the truth has made me FREE! Hallelujah! All glory to God amen. I know the scriptures as well as the next brother or sister in Christ. It is through diligence that we are rewarded. Revelation comes from God. This I know that I know that I know. Some people seem to still think they are adopted which is misleading in the scriptures. We are BORN (BEGOTTEN) of the Father by the Spirit of God. This is revelation. Something you get from God that's not just words written. It is the Spirit of God that takes us into the deep things of God and causes scripture to become quick and powerful. (LIVING) Do not think of man more highly than you ought. We are all nothing in the body of Christ and JESUS should be EVERYTHING. Man is just the tool or instrument or vessel in which God works. To God be all the glory always. Amen

The only thing i have a slight problem with is the bolded part in your first paragraph...

Your quote..."If you are free indeed like I am and like you claim to be then you will have no more CONSCIENCE OF SIN."

I'm not sure where you are coming from here since I didn't claim one way or other. But your right, we have no more conscience of sin. Sad to say, most Christians do not know nor believe that we have been set free indeed and if Christians are (conscious) of their sin, then they truly don't understand the grace of their salvation through the finished works of Jesus Christ. And by not understanding this would result back to being enslaved to sin. We/they need to realize that (once purged) there is no more consciousness of sins. Again... were back to the finished work of the cross.
Heb 10:1-2
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the ones approaching perfect. for then would they not ceased to be offered? Because the worshipers once purged should have no more consciousness of sins.
It comes down to this... Sinners don't try to sin, (it comes naturally to them), but they try to become righteous, but without God they can't. The Christians don't try to be righteous, it's done naturally, or should I say "supernaturally" from what Jesus did. But Christians have to try to sin but under His grace sin no longer has dominion over you (Romans 6:14). Sin does not and cannot stop God's grace.

None of us deserve God's grace blessings. That is why we plead the grace of God, which is His unearned, unmerited and undeserved favor toward us. We need to be righteousness-consciousness, rather than sin-consciousness.



 
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