John Nelson Darby - False Teacher/False Prophet?

[Rev Randy]

Prophets just don't foretell future events, they declare the word of the Lord which he was indeed claiming to do. So both would apply.

Wasn't he speaking on future events? I agree that a prophet is not limited to future events. A prophet is not a fortune teller. God generally sent the prophets to deal with situations at hand.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think we can agree that he was a false teacher. The matter of being a false prophet is open to definition. If one equates being a prophet with being a teacher, then they are one and the same, but if one defines being a prophet with foretelling future events, then John Darby is not in that class. However, false prophets such as Joseph Smith and Ellen White definitely fill that description.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Dorothea I have not said they are a cult. I have not heard the priest on the podcast call them that. Just that he has erroneous teachings.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. It was something I needed to get out after learning about him, and I don't want to continue arguing about it. The mods can close this thread if they wish.

You did, however, brand him as a false prophet. He did not make a single prophecy during his lengthy life, so the charge that he was a prophet, much less a false prophet, is erroneous, at best.

Depends on if you're defining prophesy as foretelling or forth-telling. He certainly did the latter, and to great detriment of the Church.

QFT
False teacher would suit him better than false prophet.

I tend to agree

2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you,
who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Owner/Master/despothn <1203> who bought them,
bringing on themselves swift destruction.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G1203 matches the Greek &#948;&#949;&#963;&#960;&#8057;&#964;&#951;&#962; (despot&#275;s), which occurs 10 times in 10 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV
1203. despotes des-pot'-ace perhaps from 1210 and posis (a husband); an absolute ruler ("despot"):--Lord, master.

 

[simonthezealot]

For petes sake read ireneaus and ephraim the syrrian and quit regurgitating this historical inaccuracy.
Its why i grew to despise cf..

 

[Jipsah]

"Darby...! Darby...!...Fetch aft the rum, Darby!" -- R. L. Stevenson

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

For petes sake read ireneaus and ephraim the syrrian and quit regurgitating this historical inaccuracy.
Its why i grew to despise cf..

What did they write concerning the doctrine of the "rapture"?

Ephrem the Syrian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ephrem the Syrian (Syriac: &#1825;&#1834;&#1821; &#1808;&#1830;&#1834;&#1821;&#1825; &#1827;&#1816;&#1834;&#1821;&#1821;&#1808;, M&#257;r Efrêm Sûry&#257;yâ;[1] Greek: &#7960;&#966;&#961;&#945;&#943;&#956; &#8001; &#931;&#8166;&#961;&#959;&#962;; Latin: Ephraem Syrus; ca. 306 – 373) was a Syriac deacon and a prolific Syriac-language hymnographer and theologian of the 4th century.[2][3][4][5] His works are hailed by Christians throughout the world and many denominations venerate him as a saint. He has been declared a Doctor of the Church in Roman Catholicism. He is especially beloved in the Syriac Orthodox Church.

Ephrem wrote a wide variety of hymns, poems, and sermons in verse, as well as prose biblical exegesis. These were works of practical theology for the edification of the church in troubled times. So popular were his works, that, for centuries after his death, Christian authors wrote hundreds of pseudepigraphal works in his name. Ephrem's works witness to an early form of Christianity in which western ideas take little part. He has been called the most significant of all of the fathers of the Syriac-speaking church tradition.[6]





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[CityOfGod]

John Nelson Darby - False Teacher/False Prophet?

Yes, Darby was a False Teacher/False Prophet.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

"Darby...! Darby...!...Fetch aft the rum, Darby!" -- R. L. Stevenson

Reminds me of this commercial

"Aarrrrgg! Shivvy me timbers...my beloved Whiskey fell overboard"

Jameson&#39;s Irish Whiskey Commercial - YouTube

 

[simonthezealot]

From Ephraims, "on the last times the antichrist and the end of the world"
chapter 14, I use to have a link to an Orthodox library that had this writing in it's entirety but they have since removed it...
Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so, brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord

 

[Dorothea]

From Ephraims, "on the last times the antichrist and the end of the world"
chapter 14, I use to have a link to an Orthodox library that had this writing in it's entirety but they have since removed it...
Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so, brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord

I don't think you have his writings or quotes right.

Here's what he said:

St. Ephraim says: &#8220;At the time when the serpent [the Antichrist] shall come, there will be no calm on the earth; there will be great affliction, consternation, disorder, death and famine unto all the ends of the earth.&#8221;
&#8220;He will come as one humble, meek, a hater (as he will say of himself) of unrighteousness, despising idols, giving preference to piety, good, a lover of the poor, beautiful to an extreme degree, constant, gracious to all&#8230; He will not accept bribes, speak with anger, show a gloomy countenance, but with a decorous exterior he will take to deceiving the world, until he has become king&#8221;


&#8220;When the many classes and the people see such virtues and power, suddenly all will conceive the same thought, and with great joy will proclaim him king, saying among themselves: &#8216;Can another man so good and righteous be found?&#8217;&#8221;

&#8220;[Christ] will not leave the human race without His preaching, in order that all will be without answer at the Judgment&#8221;

[The Antichrist] will show partiality towards Christians, &#8220;promising them every sort of protection in return for their acknowledgment of his leadership.&#8221;

&#8220;Those not comprehending Christianity will see in him a representative and champion of the true religion and will join with him&#8221; Those who remain faithful to Christ will incite his wrath &#8220;and then this serpent will become proud in his heart and vomit forth his bitterness&#8221; Such will be the tribulation of that time that &#8220;all men will call blessed the dead and those already buried before this great sorrow came upon the earth&#8221;.

Then the faithful remnant of Christians &#8220;will flee into the wilderness and mountains and caves&#8212;praying day and night in great humility.., that they may be delivered from the serpent,.. And this will be granted them from the holy God&#8221;.


&#8220;For by permission of the Holy God, [Antichrist] will receive the power to deceive the world, because impiety will have filled the earth, and everywhere every sort of horror will be committed&#8221;


&#8220;A courageous soul will be required, that will be able to keep its life in the midst of these temptations, For if a man is proved to be even a little careless, he will easily be exposed to assault and will be captured by the signs of the evil and cunning beast&#8221;

Simply Orthodox â&#732;¦ - Selected prophecies of St. Ephraim the Syrian on the Last Days

 

[Defensor Christi]

I don't think you have his writings or quotes right.

Here's what he said:

St. Ephraim says: “At the time when the serpent [the Antichrist] shall come, there will be no calm on the earth; there will be great affliction, consternation, disorder, death and famine unto all the ends of the earth.”
“He will come as one humble, meek, a hater (as he will say of himself) of unrighteousness, despising idols, giving preference to piety, good, a lover of the poor, beautiful to an extreme degree, constant, gracious to all… He will not accept bribes, speak with anger, show a gloomy countenance, but with a decorous exterior he will take to deceiving the world, until he has become king”


“When the many classes and the people see such virtues and power, suddenly all will conceive the same thought, and with great joy will proclaim him king, saying among themselves: ‘Can another man so good and righteous be found?’”

“[Christ] will not leave the human race without His preaching, in order that all will be without answer at the Judgment”

[The Antichrist] will show partiality towards Christians, “promising them every sort of protection in return for their acknowledgment of his leadership.”

“Those not comprehending Christianity will see in him a representative and champion of the true religion and will join with him” Those who remain faithful to Christ will incite his wrath “and then this serpent will become proud in his heart and vomit forth his bitterness” Such will be the tribulation of that time that “all men will call blessed the dead and those already buried before this great sorrow came upon the earth”.

Then the faithful remnant of Christians “will flee into the wilderness and mountains and caves—praying day and night in great humility.., that they may be delivered from the serpent,.. And this will be granted them from the holy God”.


“For by permission of the Holy God, [Antichrist] will receive the power to deceive the world, because impiety will have filled the earth, and everywhere every sort of horror will be committed”


“A courageous soul will be required, that will be able to keep its life in the midst of these temptations, For if a man is proved to be even a little careless, he will easily be exposed to assault and will be captured by the signs of the evil and cunning beast”

Simply Orthodox ☦ - Selected prophecies of St. Ephraim the Syrian on the Last Days

Definitley not reading rapture there...thanks for this!

 

[Dorothea]

Definitley not reading rapture there...thanks for this!

You're welcome. The rapture idea came from a dream from a woman in Scotland named Margaret MacDonald, and Darby and his friend Scofield, the lawyer, got wind of it and ran with it in their elaborating this dream into a type of man-made doctrine on the rapture.

 

[Defensor Christi]

You're welcome. The rapture idea came from a dream from a woman in Scotland named Margaret MacDonald, and Darby and his friend Scofield, the lawyer, got wind of it and ran with it in their elaborating this dream into a type of man-made doctrine on the rapture.

As a former Protestant, and amateur Catholic apologist...this is one topic that comes up frequently (especially in RCIA)...the Rapture is so ingrained in evangelical theology that to challenge it is akin to challenging the very divinty of Christ...

Again, thanks for the link!

 

[Tangible]

the Rapture is so ingrained in evangelical theology that to challenge it is akin to challenging the very divinty of Christ...

QFT

 

[simonthezealot]

I don't think you have his writings or quotes right.

Well Dorothea, it was taken from an orthodox Library, so yes I do!

 

[Defensor Christi]

Well Dorothea, it was taken from an orthodox Library, so yes I do!

Do you have the link?

 

[simonthezealot]

Do you have the link?

It was here, been looking for it since they removed the link.
[FONT=&quot]http://www.theotokos.org/ChurchLibrary/Antichrist/books_antichrist_chapter_14.htm[/FONT]

 

[Defensor Christi]

Well Dorothea, it was taken from an orthodox Library, so yes I do!

Do you have the link?

It was here, been looking for it since they removed the link.
[FONT=&quot]http://www.theotokos.org/ChurchLibrary/Antichrist/books_antichrist_chapter_14.htm[/FONT]

You see the problem then? How can anyone verify what you are saying is correct if you cannot show us where you got the information? Dorothea is Orthodox and provided a link, so...

 

[simonthezealot]

Ireneaus as well spoke of a pre-trib cathing up.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, &#8220;There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.&#8221;4699 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

 

[Dorothea]

As a former Protestant, and amateur Catholic apologist...this is one topic that comes up frequently (especially in RCIA)...the Rapture is so ingrained in evangelical theology that to challenge it is akin to challenging the very divinty of Christ...

Again, thanks for the link!

Wow. I didn't know that. That's somewhat alarming. :o