John 8 and Jesus writing in dirt

[LittleLambofJesus]

I had posted a topic on this awhile back but decided to start it on the GT board as a poster brought up how Jesus never wrote anything.
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=51099752&postcount=104http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7351643

This event in John 8 is rather unique as it appears it is the only place in the NT/NC showing Jesus writing anything. What are views here on what Jesus wrote and if the people He was confronting would have seen it, what would their reaction have been if any. Thanks and God bless.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 8:6 This yet they said trying Him, that they may be having to be accusing of Him. The yet Jesus down-stooping to the finger Wrote into the ground,
7 As yet they persisted asking Him, He up-bends and said toward them "The sinless-one of ye first the stone on her let be casting"!
8 And again down-stooping He Wrote into the ground.

 

[tz620q]

This event in John 8 is rather unique as it appears it is the only place in the NT/NC showing Jesus writing anything. What are views here on what Jesus wrote and if the people He was confronting would have seen it, what would their reaction have been if any. Thanks and God bless.

I like Archbishop Fulton Sheen's explanation, which I think he got from one of the ECF's. He said that Jesus would look at one of the accusers and then write on the ground the sin that that accuser was guilty of. Then he would look at another, until all stood convicted.

 

[Tonks]

I like Archbishop Fulton Sheen's explanation, which I think he got from one of the ECF's. He said that Jesus would look at one of the accusers and then write on the ground the sin that that accuser was guilty of. Then he would look at another, until all stood convicted.

I'd note that they were all self-convicted (or self-confessed) sinners given the fact the stones lay unused on the ground...

 

[cyberlizard]

i think he wrote out the verse where the man must also be present and stoned....

 

[Uphill Battle]

I've heard a theory that he wrote the 10 commandments. And that each knew they stood condemned by their own sins, knowing they all had in some way violated it.

no idea if that is remotely true.

I googled, and came up with these theories:

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/ground.html (God's law was written)


http://www.eschatologyreview.com/writedust.htm (their names and ages)

(It's long, so I clipped out the relevant bit here

Without exactly saying what Jesus wrote, the context, along with Jer. 17:13 should tell us what he wrote. He wrote the names and ages of each of the persons who were there, and in the exact order of their age, beginning with the oldest, ending with the youngest.

Just think. They knew that they had never met Jesus before. Therefore, he had no way of knowing who they were, much less knowing how old they were. Now, here is Jesus writing each of their names and their ages, in the exact order of their ages, beginning with the oldest one, ending with the last (other translations state it that way), in the dust, with his finger. Now, if I were there, there would be two things that I would do:

1. I would be ashamed [see Jer. 17:13 again] because I would have been a sinner, though maybe not guilty of the same sin as the woman. I would have no business judging her until I rid myself of my sin.

2. I would have been "scared to death." How could this man know my name, especially that I was the oldest? And how could he know the names of all of the others, especially in the exact order of their ages --- unless He was a prophet of YHVH? Man, I’m gone!




http://www.ezilon.com/articles/articles/864/1/What-Did-Jesus-Write-On-The-Temple-Ground-In-Jerusalem%3F The sins of all those present (I don't find this one credible, he would have to have been writing a long time) I also note that apparently others also have said it was a stall (as if Christ needed to stall!) or confusion (ditto!)

It is suggested that Jesus was indeed playing for time, while he deliberately closed his ears to the scribes and Pharisees to force them to keep on repeating their charges, so that they would expose their sadistic nature to themselves.

Another interesting suggestion is that Jesus was filled with such a deep sense of embarrassment and confusion, at the naked cruelty of the very teachers of the Law, that he stooped down to write with his finger on the ground to avoid meeting the lustful eyes of the scribes and Pharisees, as well as the woman's shame of guilt.

However, the most plausible explanation would be, that Jesus was confronting the self-righteous scribes and Pharisees with a record of their own sins. Jesus bent down to write on the ground the sins of the very men who were accusing the woman.

the reasoning on the passage is very diffuse.

 

[Strong in Him]

Interesting thread, LLOJ, but I don't feel there's anything I can contribute as John gives us no details whatsoever.

Do we even know for a fact that it was writing, and not doodling or just making marks?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Interesting thread, LLOJ, but I don't feel there's anything I can contribute as John gives us no details whatsoever.

Do we even know for a fact that it was writing, and not doodling or just making marks?

I would doubt the Son of God would just "doodle". I have a view of this event in Dan 5 being what JESUS could have written and I relate it also to the event of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation concerning those corrupt murderous Judean rulers.....Thoughts?

Daniel 5:24 In-then before-him being-sent the-fingertip, that of the-hand and-the-Writing, the-this, being-signified

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=4724863&page=6
John 8 and Jesus writing in the Dirt

 

[Standing Up]

What's the Law say about an unmarried woman (not a virgin, a prostitute perhaps, as in such women-v.5, of this kind) caught in adultery?

Nothing?

They were trying to trap Him. Because the Law does not say anything about the unmarried woman. So, if He had condemned her, it would have been a lie.

You might reply, the Pharisees said she was caught in adultery, implying she was married. They evidently were lying, trying to trap Him, setting Him up.

What did He write then?

Perhaps He did write MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIN

Or Romans 5:13 ... sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Or Jeremiah 3:8.

If so, there is an interesting moral to the story, answering 'what of those who never heard of Jesus (been betrothed to the Lord, such as we are)'?

 

[Strong in Him]

I would doubt the Son of God would just "doodle".

He could have done - he was a human being, and that's what we humans do sometimes.

It's interesting that recent research seems to suggest that when people doodle, it aids concentration and they are actually far more likely to remember what was going on around them.

I have a view of this event in Dan 5 being what JESUS could have written and I relate it also to the event of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation concerning those corrupt murderous Judean rulers.....Thoughts?

I don't really have any thoughts - we have no way of knowing what Jesus wrote, if anything at all.
Whatever the significance of this, John obviously did not feel curious enough to go over to where Jesus had been sitting to see what it was that the Messiah was writing on the ground. Or, if by chance he did, he did not feel that Christ's writings were worth recording.

So it is all speculation. It might be quite interesting speculation, but that's all it can be.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I felt He was perhaps writing prophecies down against them similar to the way it showed in Dan 5.
Notice the similarity of Matt 21:43 and Dan 5:28 for example......

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I am saying to ye, that shall be being taken-away from Ye the Kingdom of the GOD, and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

Daniel 5:24 In-then before-him being-sent the-fingertip, that of the-hand and-the-writing, the-this, being-signified
28 P@rac/Bisecting she is bisected kingdom of thee and she was granted to-Maday and-Parac'.

 

[Zstar]

I had posted a topic on this awhile back but decided to start it on the GT board as a poster brought up how Jesus never wrote anything.
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=51099752&postcount=104http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7351643

This event in John 8 is rather unique as it appears it is the only place in the NT/NC showing Jesus writing anything. What are views here on what Jesus wrote and if the people He was confronting would have seen it, what would their reaction have been if any. Thanks and God bless.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 8:6 This yet they said trying Him, that they may be having to be accusing of Him. The yet Jesus down-stooping to the finger Wrote into the ground,
7 As yet they persisted asking Him, He up-bends and said toward them "The sinless-one of ye first the stone on her let be casting"!
8 And again down-stooping He Wrote into the ground.

Maybe it was some kind of symbolic writting, like a pictograph that had special meaning for the situatuion - if it was in thier dialect I think the Disciples would have includd what it said or the reaction to what was written - His words He delivered afterward was what they understood.

I brought up this also a while back in a broader sense, got some good information. What stuck with me was that it was up to the Disciples to record what the 'Master' wrote in the tradition of the time. I'll share a link to the topic - http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7325365

 

[JimfromOhio]

In John 8 (King James Version), Jesus dealt with the the scribes and Pharisees of a woman committed adultery. Jesus wrote on the ground in verses 9-11 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, He said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

The religious leaders were the moral ones and they were legalistic that Jesus was reminding the religious leaders about God's grace. Grace (New Testament) versus Legalism (Old Testament). Romans 4:8 (also Psalms 32:2) "Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him".

 

[Zstar]

The religious leaders were the moral ones and they were legalistic that Jesus was reminding the religious leaders about God's grace. Grace (New Testament) versus Legalism (Old Testament). Romans 4:8 (also Psalms 32:2) "Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him".

The 'religious leaders' were the 'moral ones'? Jesus wasn't reminding something but contradicting - teaching in His own special way.

 

[JimfromOhio]

The 'religious leaders' were the 'moral ones'? Jesus wasn't reminding something but contradicting - teaching in His own special way.

Such as legalism?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i think he wrote out the verse where the man must also be present and stoned....

Stephen was stoned just for raising his voice

Acts 7:56 and said "look! I see the heavens having been opened and the Son of the Man standing out of rights of the God!"
59 And they stoned the Stephen, calling upon and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"

Reve 16:21 And Hail great as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men and blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous. [Ezekiel 38:22]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6719420&page=2
Stoning of Stephen against the Law

 

[Zstar]

Such as legalism?

Labels aside - Jesus contradicted the teachings of this bunch.

Not just here but the incident of picking 'corn on the sabbath'.

If something is found in the 'law and prophets' contrary to the teachings of Jesus concerning what fulfills them I side with Jesus. Let all the others be brought to light - His words will forever stand and be true in contast.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Labels aside - Jesus contradicted the teachings of this bunch.

Not just here but the incident of picking 'corn on the sabbath'.

If something is found in the 'law and prophets' contrary to the teachings of Jesus concerning what fulfills them I side with Jesus. Let all the others be brought to light - His words will forever stand and be true in contast.

Only if we abide in Jesus in spirit and love.

 

[squint]

He may have been writing a warning to the anti-Christ spirits in those men:

Isaiah 29:
4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

Pharaoh was brought down by the 'finger of God' in a similar manner.

Exodus 8:
19 The magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hard and he would not listen, just as the LORD had said.

That same finger also pressed the Law into stone.

When you see the FINGER come out in text it is usually in conjunction with Gods workings against demons:

Luke 11:20
But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

I believe He may have wrote the warning of Isaiah and the demonic departed in fear by THEIR AGES, oldest to youngest.

Please note the 'may.' There are also other interesting connections.

 

[Zstar]

Please note the 'may.' There are also other interesting connections.

No 'enjoy'? Anything like others posters have mentioned? If you would choose one - what do you believe?

 

[squint]

No 'enjoy'? Anything like others posters have mentioned? If you would choose one - what do you believe?

Well, if ya really wanna know there are actually two dynamics going on in this event and are completely separate that each have their own rules and boundries. This exact even could be flavored with even two or three more direct hits on both side of the ledger.

But to understand this principle it has to be grasped first at a more basic level. So I tried to keep it simple.

enjoy!

squint