You are philosophizing. Talk about the verses in Ezekiel 38-39 instead.
The nation of Israel, the land of Israel, is not spiriitualizing Scripture.
Pre-trib is a rapture timing view. Ezekiel 38-39 is not talking about the rapture.
What different purpose? They all had the purpose of serving Christ and leading others to Him. Are you trying to say that you think when Ephesians 2:19-22 talks about "the household of God"/"holy temple in the Lord" being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets that the disciples/apostles who walked with Christ are not included in that? If so, I couldn't disagree more.Hi SJ,
The 12 disciples/Apostles were those who walked with the Lord, saw His death and resurrection and ascension. That is what they were to be witnesses of - Jesus being both Lord and Christ.
`...beginning from the baptism of John to that day when he was taken up from us, one of these must become a WITNESS with us of His resurrection.`(Acts 1:22)
`Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.` (Acts 2:36)
The Apostles in the Body of Christ.
`When He ascended on high.....He Himself gave some to be apostles, ....for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry..` (Eph. 4: 11)
`Paul, Silvanus and Timothy.....as apostles of Christ.` (1 Thess. 1: 1, 2: 6)
Different purpose there.
Marilyn.
That city isn't just for them. Did you read to the end of Hebrews 11?Hi sg,
Yes the Body of Christ has no ethnic division. I agree.
So are you saying that the OT saints will not go to the `city` prepared by God for them?
`Therefore God us nt ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)
People traveling by chariots in the future? Really? No, that's not realistic.Hi BobRyan,
Do you remember that there are 2 elect.
`For Jacob my servant`s sake and Israel my ELECT.` (Isa. 45: 4)
In Matt. 24: 31 it is the Jews that are being gathered. Isaiah tells us they come to Jerusalem on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules and on camels.` (Isa. 66: 20) This is because the great earthquake destroyed civilization as we know it now. (Rev. 16: 17 - 21)
Marilyn.
I only deny your interpretation of those passages, not the scripture itself.No, because there is a judgment in Revelation 20:4 and then 1000 years later a judgment in Revelation 20:11-12.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
What is the first resurrection? It is the one in verse 4. What is the judgment seat of Christ? The one Jesus Christ is currently sitting on. What is the one in Matthew 25? It is the one set up in Jerusalem at the Second Coming. 4 different judgments.
If you are not twisting my words, then why deny these 4 different judgments?
Which of your 4 different judgments is this passage referring to:One judgment is ongoing as we speak. One at the Second Coming. One the church itself is sitting on thrones judging those beheaded in the tribulation. One that happens when there is not even a created reality, between this reality and the next one.
You have quoted all the verses, and read them.
People traveling by chariots in the future? Really? No, that's not realistic.
Of course.Scripture says that Jesus is in control and has all authority whether you acknowledge it or not. Not Satan. It's foolish to think otherwise. So, I say again that Satan can only do what Jesus allows him to do because Jesus has all power and authority in heaven and in earth, just as scripture clearly says.
So, you spiritualize literal Scripture when it exposes your error? That sounds convenient. That sums up Amil.So, you spiritualize literal Scripture when it exposes your error? That sounds convenient. That sums up Pretrib.
The church is the direct voice for Christ on earth. Do we not bind Satan, or loose him for that matter?Scripture says that Jesus is in control and has all authority whether you acknowledge it or not. Not Satan. It's foolish to think otherwise. So, I say again that Satan can only do what Jesus allows him to do because Jesus has all power and authority in heaven and in earth, just as scripture clearly says.
You asked those same questions before. I informed you that the passages in the bible that are associated with those things are elsewhere in the bible and and I had annotated them on my chart below.Where is the NT Church mentioned in Ezekiel 38 and 39?
Where is a rapture of the NT Church in Ezekiel 38 and 39?
Where is a 7-year tribulation mentioned in Ezekiel 38 and 39?
Where is a 3rd coming in Ezekiel 38 and 39?
Of course? So, now you're agreeing with me? Why did you say it was ridiculous when I said basically the same thing before?Of course.
And your claim that my other post was ridiculous isn't just hot air? Of course it was. Why don't we leave the insults out of this? Are you unable to communicate without using insults?Your vehement protestations are just so much hot air.
By whose power do we do that? Our own? Or Christ's?The church is the direct voice for Christ on earth. Do we not bind Satan, or loose him for that matter?
But you said Jesus exercises all power and authority now.Of course? So, now you're agreeing with me? Why did you say it was ridiculous when I said basically the same thing before?
It is the Prophetic Word that is superior.
You quoted Isaiah 66:20 as proof of the Jewish return. That is plainly wrong; contradicts its context and opposes much other prophecy.
Rather that accusing me of being a judge, you should be ashamed of your errors and cease accusing the messenger
I would like to discuss God's Word deeper with you. Sadly, up until now, you skip around everything I (and other Amils) present. One just has to pick any thread we have engaged in and you will see evidence of this. Dispies typically do this. That is frustrating. It is easier to engage with Posttrib Premils or Partial Preterists because they want to flesh out the Scripture, not simply argue a man-made school of thought.
If you are willing to address the issues and not constantly evade them i am willing to go through your arguments one by one. If you are willing to dissect the sacred text instead of just posting unrelated references I am up for it.
Why do you put the timing of Zechariah 12:7-14 at the second coming of Christ when the timing of Zechariah 12:10 is placed at the time of Christ's crucifixion, as can be seen here in John 19:37:
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
In my view you are making a straightforward prophecy (from 2 Peter 3) into something convoluted that no one can understand.
No, there are not "3 Prophetic Days of God". The references to "The day of Christ", "the day of the Lord" and "the day of God" are all referencing the same day. I believe only doctrinal bias can prevent someone from seeing that.
Can you please break down your understanding of 2nd Peter 3 down for me? Where does it speak of the time of tribulation? Where does it speak of "the millennium"?
When exactly do you believe everything will be burned up? Would you equate the timing of the burning up of everything with Revelation 20:9?
When Peter said in 2 Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.", what promise do you think he was referring to?
What different purpose? They all had the purpose of serving Christ and leading others to Him. Are you trying to say that you think when Ephesians 2:19-22 talks about "the household of God"/"holy temple in the Lord" being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets that the disciples/apostles who walked with Christ are not included in that? If so, I couldn't disagree more.
There is no basis for dividing up what Jesus Christ brought together as one by shedding His blood. So much scripture talks about how Christ brought all believers together as one, making no difference between the Jew and Gentile and here you are trying to keep them divided.
That city isn't just for them. Did you read to the end of Hebrews 11?
Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
OT saints and NT saints have the same promise to look forward to. They (OT saints) will not without us (NT saints) be made perfect (a likely reference to being changed to have immortal bodies).
Why do you lump all unspecified acts of judgment into one singularity? God judges the world daily. Should God not do that?I only deny your interpretation of those passages, not the scripture itself.
Which of your 4 different judgments is this passage referring to:
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Which of your 4 different judgments is this passage referring to:
Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Which of your 4 different judgments is this verse referring to:
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Which of your 4 different judgments is this verse referring to:
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
You asked those same questions before. I informed you that the passages in the bible that are associated with those things are elsewhere in the bible and and I had annotated them on my chart below.
Talk about what is in Ezekiel 38 and 39 before you start talking about what is not.
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