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John 12:32

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HamletsChoice

Guest
magnify said:
"I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me." John 12:32

Just wanted to get other Reformers view on this scripture and how it relates to Reformed Theology.

This verse was the key verse in the My Utmost for His Highest devotional for today.

Please, ONLY Calvinists/Reformed reply. Thanks.

The words "all men" is used in Scripture to mean:

1) Every single man and woman
2) Every single man only
3) All nations and races
4) Every man and woman from Israel
5) Every man only from Israel
6) A great number of people (but not every single person on Earth)
7) Men from every station in life (rich and poor; ordinary and rulers; or "types of men.")

You need to see the context of how "all men" is used in order to understand what "all men" means in any particular verse.

Lets take a look at a few examples, ok?

MAR 1:37 And when they had found him, they said unto him, All men seek for thee.

This means a great number of Israelites, it does not means every single person on earth.

LUK 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

This means a great number of lost people, it does not mean every single person on earth.

LUK 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

This means all lost men and women, not every single person on earth.

ACT 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

This means men and women from every nation and race, it does not mean every single person on earth.

ACT 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

This means all the believers in this church only, it does not mean every single person on earth.

ACT 4:21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done.

This means all the men and women who saw the miracle or knew the man who was healed in Jerusalem, it does not mean every single person on earth.

ACT 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

This means all the men and women in the town that only happened to be present, it does not mean every single person on earth.

1CO 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

This means all "types of men and women" and certain men and women who were "Jews and Gentiles," it does not mean every single person on earth (many were not pleased with Paul....lol).

1TI 2:1-2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

This means "all types of men," men from every station of life, it does not mean every single person on earth.


And finally your verse, "I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me." John 12:32

I believe this verse means not just men, but men and women from every nation on earth and therefore not just the Israelites anymore. This was a major change of events that Christ was ushering in and therefore preaching about. It was now salvation for the Gentiles!

We of course know that millions of men and women have died in their sins and are therefore in hell now without ever having heard the Gospel from the time of Christ's crucifixtion until now, so we know Christ could not possibly have meant every single person on Earth from the date of His crucifixtion until today would be drawn to Him.

Therefore the use of "all men" in this verse must be the same way the Holy Spirit uses "all men" throughout all of Scripture i.e., as a selective population.
 
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magnify said:
"I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me." John 12:32

Just wanted to get other Reformers view on this scripture and how it relates to Reformed Theology.

This verse was the key verse in the My Utmost for His Highest devotional for today.

Please, ONLY Calvinists/Reformed reply. Thanks.

Good Day, Magnify

It is wise to read the next verse.

Joh 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Peace to u,

Bill
 
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H

HamletsChoice

Guest
What is just as interesting is to see how the Holy Spirit uses the word "World" in Scripture, as He does in John 3:16:

"World" is used throughout Scripture to mean:

1) Evil people only


2) Roman Empire only

3) The lost only
4) Numerous people of a small region only
5) Gentiles only


6) Saved Gentiles only



With this voluminous use of the word "world" throughout Scripture to mean only narrow and specific groups of people we should not always assume it means every single person who ever lived on earth.



ISA 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

LUK 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

LUK 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

JOH 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

JOH 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.


JOH 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.


JOH 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


JOH 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.


JOH 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


JOH 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.


JOH 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.


JOH 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


ACT 17:6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;


ACT 19:27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.


ROM 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?


ROM 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?


1JO 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.


1JO 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.


1JO 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

 
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Rolf Ernst

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HamletsChoice said:
The words "all men" is used in Scripture to mean:

1) Every single man and woman
2) Every single man only
3) All nations and races
4) Every man and woman from Israel
5) Every man only from Israel
6) A great number of people (but not every single person on Earth)
7) Men from every station in life (rich and poor; ordinary and rulers; or "types of men.")

You need to see the context of how "all men" is used in order to understand what "all men" means in any particular verse.

Lets take a look at a few examples, ok?

MAR 1:37 And when they had found him, they said unto him, All men seek for thee.

This means a great number of Israelites, it does not means every single person on earth.

LUK 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

This means a great number of lost people, it does not mean every single person on earth.

LUK 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

This means all lost men and women, not every single person on earth.

ACT 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

This means men and women from every nation and race, it does not mean every single person on earth.

ACT 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

This means all the believers in this church only, it does not mean every single person on earth.

ACT 4:21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done.

This means all the men and women who saw the miracle or knew the man who was healed in Jerusalem, it does not mean every single person on earth.

ACT 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

This means all the men and women in the town that only happened to be present, it does not mean every single person on earth.

1CO 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

This means all "types of men and women" and certain men and women who were "Jews and Gentiles," it does not mean every single person on earth (many were not pleased with Paul....lol).

1TI 2:1-2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

This means "all types of men," men from every station of life, it does not mean every single person on earth.


And finally your verse, "I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me." John 12:32

I believe this verse means not just men, but men and women from every nation on earth and therefore not just the Israelites anymore. This was a major change of events that Christ was ushering in and therefore preaching about. It was now salvation for the Gentiles!

We of course know that millions of men and women have died in their sins and are therefore in hell now without ever having heard the Gospel from the time of Christ's crucifixtion until now, so we know Christ could not possibly have meant every single person on Earth from the date of His crucifixtion until today would be drawn to Him.

Therefore the use of "all men" in this verse must be the same way the Holy Spirit uses "all men" throughout all of Scripture i.e., as a selective population.
Good post, Hamlets choice. Thanks for that!!
 
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