Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24

[Clare73]

Who said that? Love is the fulfillment of the law because the heart is where it starts. The commandments is what points out sin

In the New Covenant, the heart points out sin, because the law is in the heart.

Just as the heart of a mother knows what it is to love her child, so the heart of the believer knows what it is to love God and neighbor... no written code necessary.

Time to come into the New Covenant of the heart (Ro 13:9-10) instead of the letter.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

In the New Covenant, the heart points out sin, because the law is in the heart.

The law is what points out sin in the NC.

Romans 7:7 I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Just as the heart of a mother knows what it is to love her child, so the heart of the believer knows what it is to love God and neighbor...

This is depending on our own righteousness and not God's. All of God's commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 Our righteousness can't save us, only though Jesus are we saved. Jesus said if you love Me, keep My commandments (written code). We have all have free will to depend on our own righteousness or trust God. My faith is in God.

In the New Covenant, the heart points out sin, because the law is in the heart.

These two statements are in conflict with each other

no written code necessary.

Why would the law (written code) be in the heart and mind if no code (law) is necessary? The NT tells us this answer. There is a written code we are to follow according to God Hebrews 8:10 and His law is written in the heart because we obey through love- For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3. God's law is written in the mind so we are doers of God's Word and not just hearers. James 1:22, Revelation 22:14 which harmonizes with scripture.

Time to come into the New Covenant of the heart (Ro 13:9-10) instead of the letter.

Only Jesus knows this answer and is our only righteous judge for us all.

We will just have to agree to disagree. Take care.

 

[Clare73]

The law is what points out sin in the NC.

No more than it does to a mother regarding loving her child, who needs no law to tell her what that is.

 

[Cornelius8L]

The reply you quoted of me, is not from the same post that you indicated, which makes it out of context.

I mean, your post #475 is replying to Leaft473 while you quoted me. Anyway, that is not important.

Doing the work of God is not a sin. For example preachers preaching on God’s Sabbath like the example of the apostles and Jesus in the scriptures is not a sin. Work is about secular work, not doing the ways of God on God’s holy Sabbath day. Isaiah 58:13. The Sabbath is about honoring God- what better way to honor God than to teach right from the scriptures. No one broke the Sabbath by faith, not a teaching in God’s Word, sin is not by faith. Sin is breaking God’s law. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7. I hope you can see the implications you are teaching. Sin does not come from God, it comes from God’s adversary, the devil. 1 John 3:8. Faith upholds God’s law Romans 3:31 and keeps God’s commandments Revelation 14:12


The law that is being referred to by David was not a law in the Ten Commandments, there is no law against eating on the Sabbath. David was hungry and doing good or eating on the Sabbath is not breaking the Sabbath.

God does prefer mercy, blood sacrifices never made anything perfect, only the blood of Jesus Christ. To obtain God’s mercy requires our participation which is shown throughout God’s Word.

Matthew 12:3-7​

Jesus said David ate the bread which was not lawful for him to eat.​

Jesus said priests doing non-secular work on the Sabbath, thus breaking the Sabbath.​

Sin is breaking the law but “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him (Romans 4:8, Matthew 12:7).”

Jesus said the priests broke the God-finger written Sabbath commandment even though they were doing non-secular works. They were doing the work of God. However, the priests have another instruction from God to excuse them. All these are direct references from the Bible and Jesus. But you say teaching on the Sabbath is honoring God. Is it an instruction from God or a human idea?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I mean, your post #475 is replying to Leaft473 while you quoted me. Anyway, that is not important.

Matthew 12:3-7​

Jesus said David ate the bread which was not lawful for him to eat.​

Jesus said priests doing non-secular work on the Sabbath, thus breaking the Sabbath.​

Sin is breaking the law but “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him (Romans 4:8, Matthew 12:7).”

Jesus said the priests broke the God-finger written Sabbath commandment even though they were doing non-secular works. They were doing the work of God. However, the priests have another instruction from God to excuse them. All these are direct references from the Bible and Jesus. But you say teaching on the Sabbath is honoring God. Is it an instruction from God or a human idea?

We will have to agree to disagree. Take care.

 

[Cornelius8L]

I quoted Jesus. If you disagree without being able to prove Jesus said otherwise, then you are disagreeing with Jesus. Take care.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I quoted Jesus. If you disagree without being able to prove Jesus said otherwise, then you are disagreeing with Jesus. Take care.

Not really, just your interpretation. Not all law is the Ten Commandments. Nehemiah 9:13 There is nothing about eating or food in the Ten Commandments Exodus 20 so obviously not the law Jesus is referring to. Jesus referred to many man-made laws that He condemned others for. It's all about context, but I think we have discussed this at length to know we will not come to an agreement on it, and I am okay with that.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Not really, just your interpretation. Not all law is the Ten Commandments. Nehemiah 9:13 There is nothing about eating or food in the Ten Commandments Exodus 20 so obviously not the law Jesus is referring to. Jesus referred to many man-made laws that He condemned others for. It's all about context, but I think we have discussed this at length to know we will not come to an agreement on it, and I am okay with that.

Not my interpretation as it is a direct statement for Jesus that the priests broke the sabbath commandment as they work every day. Then, David eating the food is about the law. We are not referencing David’s case to the commandment. The context is priest broke the Sabbath commandment (and David broke the law), and you disagree with Jesus.

I agree with Jesus and accept Jesus’s explanation in Matthew 12:7. But you are teaching something different from what Jesus taught.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not my interpretation as it is a direct statement for Jesus that the priests broke the sabbath commandment as they work every day. Then, David eating the food is about the law. We are not referencing David’s case to the commandment. The context is priest broke the Sabbath commandment (and David broke the law), and you disagree with Jesus.

I agree with Jesus and accept Jesus’s explanation in Matthew 12:7. But you are teaching something different from what Jesus taught.

There is no sin doing God’s work on the Sabbath, preaching God’s Word on the Sabbath is not a sin otherwise you are condemning Jesus and the disciples to sin, which is in direct conflict with the very words of Jesus who said He kept His Fathers commandments John 15:10.

Please point out in the Sabbath commandment where it is a sin to eat. I’ll post the Sabbath commandment for your convenience .

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Anyway, I’m not comfortable with these types of accusations and we all have a greater Authority we have to answer to. I am bowing out and I wish you well in seeking His Word. Take care.

 

[Cornelius8L]

There is no sin doing God’s work on the Sabbath, preaching God’s Word on the Sabbath is not a sin otherwise you are condemning Jesus and the disciples to sin, which is in direct conflict with the very words of Jesus who said He kept His Fathers commandments John 15:10.

Please point out in the Sabbath commandment where it is a sin to eat. I’ll post the Sabbath commandment for your convenience .

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Anyway, I’m not comfortable with these types of accusations and we all have a greater Authority we have to answer to. I am bowing out and I wish you well in seeking His Word. Take care.

Please point out when I did say eating during Sabbath is a sin in any of my posts. If you cannot, then we know you have the tendency to twist words (even those in the scripture), like twisting the fact that there is no instruction given concerning making a day holy in NT. Moreover, we were talking about priests’ work, not preaching. Your example given doesn’t fit as there is no such instruction given in NT about preaching during Sabbath nor your quoted Exo20 verses, unlike those instructions given to the priests by God concerning Sabbath works.

Does the greater Authority say preaching during Sabbath is making the Sabbath day holy? If the answer is no, Jesus and the apostles merely following traditions. But Jesus asked us not to teach traditions as doctrines.

No one is saying Jesus sinned because we accept Jesus’s explanation in Matthew 12:7, but you jumped in, deducing we accused Jesus, and now you want to bow out after bearing false testimony against us?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No more than it does to a mother regarding loving her child, who needs no law to tell her what that is.

Not sure if this analogy works- the law does not represent love to a child, obedience to God's commandments is love to God. 1 John 5:3 God did not write His law in His heart for Him to love His children. He wrote it in our hearts and minds which is the very essence of who a person is-heart (love)and mind (actions) so the law represents the very essence of love to God through our actions and though our hearts. His commandments is love from God to us in the sense that each commandment is for our own good and brings us peace and closer to God. Psalm 119:165 John 15:9-10

God’s ways are above mans ways, we look to God the Creator who gave us His commandments to follow through love and faith not man’s ways. Our obedience to God is love Exodus 20:6, John 14:15, 1 John 5:3 , just like a child who obey’s their parents rules does so because of love and respect. Disobedience is unloving and disrespectful to God, just like it is to our parents when we disregard their rules. Selfishness is the heart of disobedience. Our ways over God’s.

If a mom has no rules for their child they can do whatever they want and don’t have to obey what mom asks, more than likely that child will be raised to be spoiled and out of control. God instructs us to diligently teach our children His commandments and to love God with all their hearts and soul- their all.

Deut. 6:2 that you may fear the Lord your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. 3 Therefore hear, O Israel, and be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the Lord God of your fathers has promised you—‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’ 4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. 6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

 

[FredVB]

It seems a wonder that there are such believers that speak like Yahweh's mind changes. What promises then would be totally reliable? What Yahweh had in place to start with was of Yahweh's perfect will. Yahweh showed love for those of Yahweh's creation with that. It was the best for us and the same way of eating then has always been and still is the best for us. Like polygamy, slavery, and divorce and such, Yahweh's changes were for working with us with our stubbornness. The ten commandments Yahweh spoke to those of Israel then and wrote on stone tables were not contrary to the original design for us of Yahweh's perfect will, from Yahweh's love for us.

 

[BobRyan]

It seems a wonder that there are such believers that speak like Yahweh's mind changes. What promises then would be totally reliable?

Good point

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

Heb 13:
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever.

The ten commandments Yahweh spoke to those of Israel then and wrote on stone tables were not contrary to the original design for us of Yahweh's perfect will, from Yahweh's love for us.

Amen

 

[BobRyan]

Does the greater Authority say preaching during Sabbath is making the Sabbath day holy? If the answer is no

Jesus never says "preaching makes the Sabbath holy" and the OT does not say that either. It is not in NT or OT and is irrelevant.

ad hoc rules don't work as a reliable system of "proof" of Bible doctrine.

Is 58:13 says that secular activity is not allowed on the Sabbath - that is true -- but if you take a nap all day on God's Sabbath -- that does "make it Holy" either.

Only God can "MAKE something holy" - and Ex 20:11 as well as Gen 2:1-3 show what it is that made the Sabbath a Holy day at the end of creation week.

 

[BobRyan]

SabbathBlessings said:

The law is what points out sin in the NC.

That is what God's Word says in 1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" - the Word of God is clear on this point.

No more than it does to a mother regarding loving her child, who needs no law to tell her what that is.

Is 49:15 - nursing mothers are also not the standard - God's Word is the standard -
“Can a woman forget her nursing child
And have no compassion on the son of her womb?
Even these may forget, but I will not forget you.

So then
- are there mothers who give up their child to the abortion promoters?
- were there mothers in the OT that gave up their children to child sacrifice on pagan altars?

Even more reason to accept the Word of God - sola scriptura - as the better standard.

 

[Lulav]

It seems a wonder that there are such believers that speak like Yahweh's mind changes. What promises then would be totally reliable?

Very good point, that many don't consider.

What Yahweh had in place to start with was of Yahweh's perfect will. Yahweh showed love for those of Yahweh's creation with that. It was the best for us and the same way of eating then has always been and still is the best for us.

Yes, the Creator knows the body he created and knows what works best for it.

Like polygamy, slavery, and divorce and such, Yahweh's changes were for working with us with our stubbornness. The ten commandments Yahweh spoke to those of Israel then and wrote on stone tables were not contrary to the original design for us of Yahweh's perfect will, from Yahweh's love for us.

 

[Cornelius8L]

It seems a wonder that there are such believers that speak like Yahweh's mind changes. What promises then would be totally reliable? What Yahweh had in place to start with was of Yahweh's perfect will. Yahweh showed love for those of Yahweh's creation with that. It was the best for us and the same way of eating then has always been and still is the best for us. Like polygamy, slavery, and divorce and such, Yahweh's changes were for working with us with our stubbornness. The ten commandments Yahweh spoke to those of Israel then and wrote on stone tables were not contrary to the original design for us of Yahweh's perfect will, from Yahweh's love for us.

God told King Hezekiah what He was going to do, but on the same day He changed His mind. (2 Kings 20:1-6)

V1… The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz came to him and said, “This is what the LORD says: ‘Put your house in order, for you are about to die; you will not recover.’ ”​

V5 Go back and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people that this is what the LORD, the God of your father David, says: ‘I have heard your prayer; I have seen your tears. I will surely heal you…​

In John 7, Jesus did the same thing.

V8 Go up to the feast on your own. I am not going up to this feast,…​

V10 But after His brothers had gone up to the feast, He also went…​

God's goal never changed, not the way he got there. Because He knew from the start what He wanted to do.

Change is also the removal of instructions about how to offer a sacrifice. If God can't change His mind, how come He told people to burn sacrifices that would be taken away at a later time?

 

[Cornelius8L]

Jesus never says "preaching makes the Sabbath holy" and the OT does not say that either. It is not in NT or OT and is irrelevant.

ad hoc rules don't work as a reliable system of "proof" of Bible doctrine.

Is 58:13 says that secular activity is not allowed on the Sabbath - that is true -- but if you take a nap all day on God's Sabbath -- that does "make it Holy" either.

Only God can "MAKE something holy" - and Ex 20:11 as well as Gen 2:1-3 show what it is that made the Sabbath a Holy day at the end of creation week.

Irrelevant, I agree. And in the OT, God told the priest to burn an extra sacrifice on the seventh day to make it special, but in the NT, God did not tell the priest to preach on the seventh day to make it special.

So, since man can't make a day holy, all ideas about what to do on that day are just traditions, not doctrines. Not a must-have, but nice to have.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus never says "preaching makes the Sabbath holy" and the OT does not say that either. It is not in NT or OT and is irrelevant.

ad hoc rules don't work as a reliable system of "proof" of Bible doctrine.

Is 58:13 says that secular activity is not allowed on the Sabbath - that is true -- but if you take a nap all day on God's Sabbath -- that does "make it Holy" either.

Only God can "MAKE something holy" - and Ex 20:11 as well as Gen 2:1-3 show what it is that made the Sabbath a Holy day at the end of creation week.

Irrelevant, I agree.

Indeed - since God says "for that reason He blessed the Seventh day and made it holy" Ex 20:11 and "that reason" was not listed as "preaching"

And in the OT, God told the priest to burn an extra sacrifice on the seventh day

1. not when He made it holy in Gen 2:1-3
2. Not in Ex 20:8-11 - the Sabbath commandment
3. Not in Is 66:23 where God tells us that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

So then ending the "Animal sacrifice and offering" at the cross according to Heb 10:4-12 simply puts it in the same context as above. Where even in Lev 23:3 it is "holy convocation" that is called for

God did not tell the priest to preach on the seventh day to make it special.

True since the priests ended at the cross Heb 7 and animal sacrifices ended at the cross Heb 10:4-12 and there is no "priests make is special" in Gen 2, or in Ex 20:8-22 or in Lev 23:3 or in Is 66:23.

Sabbath was "made for mankind" Mark 2:27

So "priests need to make it special or it is deleted" ad hoc rules - don't work all that well.

So, since man can't make a day holy,

Only God makes the day Holy - and He said He "made it holy" when it comes to the Bible Sabbath.

Man is commanded to "Keep it holy" Ex 20:8

 

[Cornelius8L]

Indeed - since God says "for that reason He blessed the Seventh day and made it holy" Ex 20:11 and "that reason" was not listed as "preaching"

1. not when He made it holy in Gen 2:1-3
2. Not in Ex 20:8-11 - the Sabbath commandment
3. Not in Is 66:23 where God tells us that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

So then ending the "Animal sacrifice and offering" at the cross according to Heb 10:4-12 simply puts it in the same context as above. Where even in Lev 23:3 it is "holy convocation" that is called for


True since the priests ended at the cross Heb 7 and animal sacrifices ended at the cross Heb 10:4-12 and there is no "priests make is special" in Gen 2, or in Ex 20:8-22 or in Lev 23:3 or in Is 66:23.

Sabbath was "made for mankind" Mark 2:27

So "priests need to make it special or it is deleted" ad hoc rules - don't work all that well.

Only God makes the day Holy - and He said He "made it holy" when it comes to the Bible Sabbath.

Man is commanded to "Keep it holy" Ex 20:8

From whom did Abel learn how to offer sacrifices before Cain killed him? Where did people get the idea that they had to kill an animal to please God back then? God had a reason to kill an animal for Adam and Eve's clothes. But how did Abel come up with the idea of killing an animal and giving it to God as a sacrifice? What would Abel do if the Sabbath was observed?

Even more so, if it wasn't there, there would be no way to keep it holy because the way hadn't been set. Since the beginning, worship has been about in spirit and in truth (This, God never change).