Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24

[SabbathBlessings]

Ro 13:8-10 is clear.

This verse certainly does not make your claim the New Covenant is a better law, perhaps you can point out where it says that. These are the same laws in the Old Covenant and as God tells us His commandments were not abolished but written on the hearts and mind. Written on the heart becuase we keep thems through love. Written in our minds so we are doers of God’s Word and not just hearers. James 1:22. Revelation 22:14 We should not change our minds to what God placed there through love to us because He knows what’s best for us.

Keeping the law has always been through love, so it's not a new concept.

Right in God's Ten Commandments....the commandments have always been about love. Love to God when keeping and love to our fellow man.

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Which Jesus repeated almost verbatim If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

 

[Clare73]

This verse certainly does not make your claim the New Covenant is a better law,

Paul was not under the law (1Co 9:20), he was under God's law in Christ's law (1Co 9:21).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Paul was not under the law (1Co 9:20), he was under God's law in Christ's law (1Co 9:21).

Not sure how this relates to your previous claim about the New Covenant having a better law, this verse doesn't say that either.

 

[Cornelius8L]

This is why reading the scripture In context is so important. Law is a generic term and could mean the Ten Commandments or it could mean any of the laws of Moses.

Hebrew 7:18 is not referring to the Ten Commandments, it is referring to the law of the Levitical priesthood and Jesus became our High Priest in the New Covenant, which is why there was a change in the law. Hebrews 8:13 is referring the the agreement that changed, not God’s laws as clearly shown in Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10 and Hebrews 10:16. 2 Cor. 3:17-11 is referring to the Ten Commandment because it is what defines sin when broken Roman 7:7 and is the wages of sin or condemnation of the law, when we break it, which is why it is being referred to as the ministry of death. Paul makes it very clear the commandments are holy and good Romans 7:12 and said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19, so context matters.

There will never be a time as child where God said do not worship other gods but once you become an adult you are free to worship other gods, or bow to idols, covet and commit adultery etc. etc.. Not sure how one can make this argument from scripture, because it is certainly not what Jesus taught. Jesus taught us to keep God’s commandments Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 15:3-9. Matthew 5:19-30, John 14:15 just like He kept them John 15:10 and He is our example to follow. 1 John 2:6

The context does not say the Ten Commandments are excluded, especially 2 Cor 3:7-11. Let’s make this simpler, where is the scripture mentioning how to keep a day holy in the new testament? Did the scripture say spending a day in the church, reading the bible, or worshiping together, makes a day holy?

And for a child, honor our biological parents, but for adults, honor those who walk the will of God (Matthew 12:48-50). – 5th Commandment.

​

Matthew 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.​

How is Matthew 19:29 honoring biological parents?

That is why Hebrews 7:18 says the past instructions are weak.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The context does not say the Ten Commandments are excluded, especially 2 Cor 3:7-11. Let’s make this simpler, where is the scripture mentioning how to keep a day holy in the new testament? Did the scripture say spending a day in the church, reading the bible, or worshiping together, makes a day holy?

And for a child, honor our biological parents, but for adults, honor those who walk the will of God (Matthew 12:48-50). – 5th Commandment.

​

Matthew 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.​

How is Matthew 19:29 honoring biological parents?

That is why Hebrews 7:18 says the past instructions are weak.

Where does it use the word “biological” In the 5th commandment? Jesus came to magnify the law Isaiah 42:21 and there is a spiritual aspect to each of the Ten Commandments that is greater than the letter. If one keeps the spirit of the law, the letter is atomically kept, Jesus taught on these principles Matthew 5:19-30.

Here is a video that is dedicated just to the 5th commandment

The New Testament is filled with ways to honor all of the Ten Commandments including the Sabbath. We are told to follow Jesus and His example as well as the disciples who all kept the Sabbath.

 

[Clare73]

Not sure how this relates to your previous claim about the New Covenant having a better law, this verse doesn't say that either.

Having a NT mind is helpful. . .

 

[Cornelius8L]

Where does it use the word “biological” In the 5th commandment? Jesus came to magnify the law Isaiah 42:21 and there is a spiritual aspect to each of the Ten Commandments that is greater than the letter. If one keeps the spirit of the law, the letter is atomically kept, Jesus taught on these principles Matthew 5:19-30.

Here is a video that is dedicated just to the 5th commandment

The New Testament is filled with ways to honor all of the Ten Commandments including the Sabbath. We are told to follow Jesus and His example as well as the disciples who all kept the Sabbath.

I was expecting the speaker to explain Luke 11:27-28 and Matthew 19:29, but he didn’t.

Luke 8:19-21​

Then Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him, but they were unable to reach Him because of the crowd. He was told, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see You.” But He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and carry it out.”​

​

Luke 11:28​

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!” But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”​

​

Matthew 19:29​

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.​

Parents generally means “biological” parents, and everyone understood that, but Jesus altered its definition.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I was expecting the speaker to explain Luke 11:27-28 and Matthew 19:29, but he didn’t.

Luke 8:19-21​

Then Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him, but they were unable to reach Him because of the crowd. He was told, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see You.” But He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and carry it out.”​

​

Luke 11:28​

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!” But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”​

​

Matthew 19:29​

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.​

Parents generally means “biological” parents, and everyone understood that, but Jesus altered its definition.

It can be biological, but please tell that to someone who was adopted and their mom and dad who raised them are not their parents and the commandment to honor them does not apply, which I could have used that excuse when growing up. :0) When God said honor thy mother and father, He didn’t say only if you have biological parents. When Christ adopts someone, He said they do not need to be biological - Galatians 3:26-30

I have yet to find the scripture that says If you love Me keep My commandments, unless you can figure a way how they can’t be kept. It was understood that if God gives a commandment, it’s something that is attainable to understand and to keep because we have a God of love and not a God of confusion.

 

[HIM]

Ro 13:8-10 is clear.

Apparently not.

He said that to Jews not knowing when it would take place.

No he said that to The people that would be alive at His second coming.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Having a NT mind is helpful. . .

God was quoting the OT when He made the New Covenant. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16

God said He would write “My laws” in the hearts and minds of His New Covenant believers. These laws were already established from the OT.

 

[Cornelius8L]

It can be biological, but please tell that to someone who was adopted and their mom and dad who raised them are not their parents and the commandment to honor them does not apply, which I could have used that excuse when growing up. :0) When God said honor thy mother and father, He didn’t say only if you have biological parents. When Christ adopts someone, He said they do not need to be biological - Galatians 3:26-30

Jesus called someone mother not because they adopted Him or raised Him, but because they obey the words of God. Will Jesus call them (actual or adoptive) mothers if they do not obey the words of God? And God is free to adopt anyone and be called Father because He owns the “wills of God” and the “words of God."

I have yet to find the scripture that says If you love Me keep My commandments, unless you can figure a way how they can’t be kept. It was understood that if God gives a commandment, it’s something that is attainable to understand and to keep because we have a God of love and not a God of confusion.

Matthew 12:5 clearly spoke about breaking the Sabbath. Jesus confirmed doing priestly work is breaking the Sabbath. In a way, the priests use God’s words to break the very important God-finger written decalogue. God could ask the priests to offer a double portion on Friday, like how they collected the manna in the wilderness, but He did not.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Apparently not.

No he said that to The people that would be alive at His second coming.

No He didn’t because obviously those people weren’t alive yet because He said that over 2000 years ago to His disciples and His second coming still hasn’t taken place yet. He said that to Jews who didn’t know when the second coming would take place and He said it about people who would be living during the time of His second coming.

 

[Clare73]

God was quoting the OT when He made the New Covenant. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16

God said He would write “My laws” in the hearts and minds of His New Covenant believers. These laws were already established from the OT.

And Ro13:8-10 is chopped liver?

Why do you resist the NT apostolic teaching?

 

[Leaf473]

Jesus called someone mother not because they adopted Him or raised Him, but because they obey the words of God. Will Jesus call them (actual or adoptive) mothers if they do not obey the words of God? And God is free to adopt anyone and be called Father because He owns the “wills of God” and the “words of God."


Matthew 12:5 clearly spoke about breaking the Sabbath. Jesus confirmed doing priestly work is breaking the Sabbath. In a way, the priests use God’s words to break the very important God-finger written decalogue. God could ask the priests to offer a double portion on Friday, like how they collected the manna in the wilderness, but He did not.

Looking at this part here,

Matthew 12:5 clearly spoke about breaking the Sabbath. Jesus confirmed doing priestly work is breaking the Sabbath.

That's an interesting observation. If Jesus broke the Sabbath, he would still be considered guiltless, just like the other priests. That seems to answer the objection of If Jesus broke the sabbath, how could he die for our sins? Because he was guiltless.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus called someone mother not because they adopted Him or raised Him, but because they obey the words of God. Will Jesus call them (actual or adoptive) mothers if they do not obey the words of God? And God is free to adopt anyone and be called Father because He owns the “wills of God” and the “words of God."


Matthew 12:5 clearly spoke about breaking the Sabbath. Jesus confirmed doing priestly work is breaking the Sabbath. In a way, the priests use God’s words to break the very important God-finger written decalogue. God could ask the priests to offer a double portion on Friday, like how they collected the manna in the wilderness, but He did not.

Jesus never broke the Sabbath, this was an account for what He was being accused of, Jesus was sinless and kept all God’s commandments which includes the Sabbath commandment as our example. John 15:10 1 John 2:6 so my faith is in Jesus and not those who accused Him.

There’s a whole thread on this topic, I opted out for a reason and have no interest in discussing further if Jesus broke God’s Sabbath commandment so I will leave it as we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And Ro13:8-10 is chopped liver?

Who said that? Love is the fulfillment of the law because the heart is where it starts. The commandments is what points out sin so we know what not to do. Romans 7:7 when we sin there is something wrong with the heart. The answer is to turn to Jesus who changes us from the inside out.

Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

The problem is not with the law that is holy and just Romans 7:12 the problem is sin which is a heart problem. Paul in Romans 13:8-10 is not saying love is all we need and we are free to break God’s law as long as we love, which is impossible to do. You cannot love God and break His law, that is being untruthful and unloving. 1 John 2:3-6

For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3. Love is the fulfillment of the law because it means our heart is changed, just like Jesus taught, it begins in the heart. When our heart is changed we want to keep God’s commandments- this is the love of God 1 John 5:3 . Jesus said if you love Me, keep My commandments, not love Me but keep on sinning (breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4). These versus work in harmony with another and not against.

Romans 7:12 the or Why do you resist the NT apostolic teaching?

Such a strange accusation. No one is resisting anything, just harmonizing scripture instead of teaching one scripture deletes another. Paul who wrote Romans 13:8-10 and Romans 7:12 also said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 which harmonizes with his other teaching and with God and Jesus. Exodus 20:6, John 14:15

 

[Cornelius8L]

I have yet to find the scripture that says If you love Me keep My commandments, unless you can figure a way how they can’t be kept. It was understood that if God gives a commandment, it’s something that is attainable to understand and to keep because we have a God of love and not a God of confusion.

Matthew 12:5 clearly spoke about breaking the Sabbath. Jesus confirmed doing priestly work is breaking the Sabbath. In a way, the priests use God’s words to break the very important God-finger written decalogue. God could ask the priests to offer a double portion on Friday, like how they collected the manna in the wilderness, but He did not.

(I think your previous reply is not for me.)

So the priests break the commandment using other words of God, just like David broke the law using other words of God, “God desires mercy, not sacrifice” (Matthew 12:3-7). They broke it by faith, not by law. “God desires mercy” is faith, not law. “Sacrifice” is law, not faith.

 

[Bob S]

lulav wrote in post #17

The two greatest that Yeshua gave when asked were to 'Love the LORD your GOD and 'to love your neighbor as yourself'.

Only one of those is found in the 'ten commandments', the first but where is the second? It is taught in the torah and would have been learned in synagogue on Shabbat.

In reviewing the posts, I came upon the above statement. Please provide the scripture where in the ten commandments it told the Israelites to love God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

(I think your previous reply is not for me.)

So the priests break the commandment using other words of God, just like David broke the law using other words of God, “God desires mercy, not sacrifice” (Matthew 12:3-7). They broke it by faith, not by law. “God desires mercy” is faith, not law. “Sacrifice” is law, not faith.

The reply you quoted of me, is not from the same post that you indicated, which makes it out of context.

Doing the work of God is not a sin. For example preachers preaching on God’s Sabbath like the example of the apostles and Jesus in the scriptures is not a sin. Work is about secular work, not doing the ways of God on God’s holy Sabbath day. Isaiah 58:13. The Sabbath is about honoring God- what better way to honor God than to teach right from the scriptures. No one broke the Sabbath by faith, not a teaching in God’s Word, sin is not by faith. Sin is breaking God’s law. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7. I hope you can see the implications you are teaching. Sin does not come from God, it comes from God’s adversary, the devil. 1 John 3:8. Faith upholds God’s law Romans 3:31 and keeps God’s commandments Revelation 14:12


The law that is being referred to by David was not a law in the Ten Commandments, there is no law against eating on the Sabbath. David was hungry and doing good or eating on the Sabbath is not breaking the Sabbath.

God does prefer mercy, blood sacrifices never made anything perfect, only the blood of Jesus Christ. To obtain God’s mercy requires our participation which is shown throughout God’s Word.

 

[Bob S]

The big mistake about the old covenant Law is that some believe it was given to all mankind. We know this is not true at all. Israel was the only nation God gave the Law. In EX 19:5-6 God explained to Moses what His covenant was about. It did not concern any other nation on Earth. It is a huge mistake to take verses from the New Testament like "if you love Me, keep My commandments", and conclude they mean the ten commandments and any of their justified commands given to Israel. Gentiles were never ever given the ten commandments. Most of the World had/has never even heard of them. Jesus' command is for us to love others as He loves us. He labeled that command as NEW, and it certainly is/was. Those who promote Sabbath observance seem to make it the greatest command. Will keeping a day make one keep from having strife, hate, envy or all the other disgusting ways we can harm our fellow man? You might counter that statement with communing with God on Sabbath is a renewing of the soul. I would counter that with Jesus' invitation to come to Him as often as we like to renew our souls. Love is the great theme of the New Testament. Without love we would demonstrate all the disgusting ways. We would not honor our parents, we would be a bunch of liars stealing, committing adultery and not doing unto the least of those who desperately need our help.

Keeping days may be important for some, but without the greatest command ever given and, in our hearts, we are only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. 1Cor13:1-3