Jesus : Our Sanctification

[Chaleb]

Can't admit to your mistake again, I see...

For 4 days you have talked to me about Clare73.

Mark, do you understand that this isn't a dating site?

Get over it.

 

[Mark Quayle]

For 4 days you have talked to me about Clare73.

Mark, do you understand that this isn't a dating site?

Get over it.

Ha! Funny you find it necessary to respond to me each time...

 

[Chaleb]

Paul wrote Romans 4:8.... that teaches that because Christ has bore all our sin, and we are made righteous, God does not charge sin against the born again.
Paul wrote 2 Corinthians 5:19 that explains the Amazing Grace of God.
And what is that?
= God has already judged Jesus for the sin of us all, and applied this redemption, this BLOOD ATONEMENT to the Born agian... that is gained by Christ's Sacrifice upon all who have believed and are born again.
The born again are "made free from sin", and are become "the righteousness of God in Christ".

Reader if you are born again, then Christ has your sin, died for it, and left it in the Grave. He rose again without it, and you did also when you were born again, "in Christ', "one with God". "made Righteous"...= as a "new Creation IN Christ".

Confessing sin that Christ has paid for 2000 yrs ago, happens because the person does not understand Salvation, or the New Birth, or what happened on the Cross of Christ that Jesus said from the Cross...= "it is finished".

 

[Rapture Bound]

Im glad you stated that receiving God's Free Gift of Salvation, produces ..."a permanent child of God".


Getting a believer, in these end times, to understand that Jesus is their Salvation, and its not something they DO....... is more difficult to get them to understand, then it was 10 yrs ago.
This world has become so "anti-Cross", that even most of the Believers are ... "Yeah, i know that Jesus saved me, but let me tell you what i have to DO NOW, so that i can stay saved".....and "here is my list".
... that its a rare thing to find that believers understand that Jesus is Salvation and not their deeds, works, or water.

Being Born again, is as permanent as God's existance, as being born again is to be spirtually joined to God.

You stated, "... that its a rare thing to find that believers understand that Jesus is Salvation and not their deeds, works, or water."

Does that sound like the definition of a genuine believer to you? ... a person who doesn't understand that salvation comes by grace through faith apart from their works? That question leads me to ask another ... 'Can a person truly be blood-bought and regenerated by the Holy Spirit apart from understanding the only means in which they can be blood-bought and regenerated?'

 

[Mark Quayle]

You stated, "... that its a rare thing to find that believers understand that Jesus is Salvation and not their deeds, works, or water."

Does that sound like the definition of a genuine believer to you? ... a person who doesn't understand that salvation comes by grace through faith apart from their works? That question leads me to ask another ... 'Can a person truly be blood-bought and regenerated by the Holy Spirit apart from understanding the only means in which they can be blood-bought and regenerated?'

To be honest, does the best of us understand it to any salvific degree? Have any of us made a dent on the knowledge of the horror of sin or the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf? Do any of us have a grasp of the commitment we are undertaking? Are any of us faithful to carry it to completion?

God can do whatever he pleases, and he can regenerate one who only years later begins to understand the power of the Gospel.

The understanding of spiritual things depends on the spiritual mind, not so much the temporal intelligence.

 

[The Liturgist]

Reader....are you born again, or just water baptized and religious?

There is no “or just.” The question should be, have you been baptized and thus born again into the Christian religion, following the Gospel taught by the Apostles and their successors, the faith delivered once unto the saints (Jude 1:3, Galatians 1:8-9, 2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Being baptized in water and with the Spirit (Chrismation/Confirmation) is how we are born again, according to the words of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ (John 3:1-21) and we are commanded to baptize all the nations in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

 

[Chaleb]

You stated, "... that its a rare thing to find that believers understand that Jesus is Salvation and not their deeds, works, or water."

Does that sound like the definition of a genuine believer to you? ... a person who doesn't understand that salvation comes by grace through faith apart from their works? That question leads me to ask another ... 'Can a person truly be blood-bought and regenerated by the Holy Spirit apart from understanding the only means in which they can be blood-bought and regenerated?'

Ive been in ministry for a long time.

In all these years, i have considered that , if a person can't explain the Cross, the blood atonement, or "justification by faith".... then how can they be born again...

Here is how...

Paul teaches in Galatians 3

"Who has deceived you".. "who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth".... = You are "fallen from Grace"... "in the Flesh"..


Then in Hebrews 13:9 he goes into detail, and says that these people are victims of deception and they are caught up in "doctrines of devils'.

That's Calvinism.

or any teaching that has them believing that "water washes their sin away"..

or any teaching that has them trying to Keep the LAW, as their discipleship,

or any teaching that has them trying to keep commandments to stay saved.

"doctrines of devils" always does 2 things... It causes the person to chase self righteousness, and believe they can lose their salvation.

and.... it causes the person to not understand the Cross to the point that Calvin has them denying it.

 

[Chaleb]

There is no “or just.” The question should be, have you been baptized and thus born again

"Baptismal regeneration" is a Cultic doctrine that denies the Cross of Christ. This concept came from a demonic bible that falsely teaches that you are "born again BY water".
You can thank Jerome the heretic who mistranslated that verse, and one more.
He also mistranslated "repentance" as "penance" and Catholics have been doing that for nothing, ever since.

Before you teach this heresy again, go to the Dying Thief on the Cross and ask Him why He's in Heaven, and was never water baptized.

And keep in mind that if water baptism could save you, then you'd be saved ever time you took a shower.

 

[Rapture Bound]

Ive been in ministry for a long time.

In all these years, i have considered that , if a person can't explain the Cross, the blood atonement, or "justification by faith".... then how can they be born again...

Here is how...

Paul teaches in Galatians 3

"Who has deceived you".. "who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth".... = You are "fallen from Grace"... "in the Flesh"..


Then in Hebrews 13:9 he goes into detail, and says that these people are victims of deception and they are caught up in "doctrines of devils'.

That's Calvinism.

or any teaching that has them believing that "water washes their sin away"..

or any teaching that has them trying to Keep the LAW, as their discipleship,

or any teaching that has them trying to keep commandments to stay saved.

"doctrines of devils" always does 2 things... It causes the person to chase self righteousness, and believe they can lose their salvation.

and.... it causes the person to not understand the Cross to the point that Calvin has them denying it.

It's such a breath of fresh air to hear you expound on
the proper view of the atonement Chaleb! There's so very
little of this happening around the various Christian websites.

Many times people will say, "Oh yeah, we already know all
about that stuff, we need to move on to the 'deeper things
of God' now". The problem is, in all probability, the vast
majority of these people have got it wrong. They have never
understood or embraced the scriptural meaning of "it is
finished" and the permanency of the forgiveness that Christ's
blood accomplished for all those who have believed.

In my opinion, you made a "priceless" statement on another
one of your threads relating to this issue by saying :

"What is broken faith?

Well, its like this...
A BELIEVING person goes to God, to the Cross, on the day they
are saved, and they are so thankful that GOD saved them. They
know that day, they are saved and who did it, and they know
they are going to HEAVEN, because of God and Christ and The Cross.

2 Yrs later, they are on a forum teaching......'Here is how you
lose salvation".....>"here are the commandments you need to keep,
and the works you need to do, to STAY SAVED"..

Yet, the day they were saved, they KNEW why they were going to heaven,
as they had the truth then.., and now....= over time they've been
conned out of it by "theology" deceivers.

 

[Chaleb]

It's such a breath of fresh air to hear you expound on
the proper view of the atonement Chaleb! There's so very
little of this happening around the various Christian websites.

Many times people will say, "Oh yeah, we already know all
about that stuff, we need to move on to the 'deeper things
of God' now". The problem is, in all probability, the vast
majority of these people have got it wrong. They have never
understood or embraced the scriptural meaning of "it is
finished" and the permanency of the forgiveness that Christ's
blood accomplished for all those who have believed.

In my opinion, you made a "priceless" statement on another
one of your threads relating to this issue by saying :

"What is broken faith?

Well, its like this...
A BELIEVING person goes to God, to the Cross, on the day they
are saved, and they are so thankful that GOD saved them. They
know that day, they are saved and who did it, and they know
they are going to HEAVEN, because of God and Christ and The Cross.

2 Yrs later, they are on a forum teaching......'Here is how you
lose salvation".....>"here are the commandments you need to keep,
and the works you need to do, to STAY SAVED"..

Yet, the day they were saved, they KNEW why they were going to heaven,
as they had the truth then.., and now....= over time they've been
conned out of it by "theology" deceivers.

That sounds familiar.
Thank you for posting that bit of "helps".

 

[Mark Quayle]

Ive been in ministry for a long time.

In all these years, i have considered that , if a person can't explain the Cross, the blood atonement, or "justification by faith".... then how can they be born again...

Two things:
1. The only way a person's understanding can be the hinge upon which depends one's regeneration is if indeed their will is altogether free of causation, and God's 'grace' is activated by able enemies of Christ.
2. NOBODY but God himself has the understanding of the Gospel to a degree necessary to know what is going on with just what God's loving mercy has accomplished. WE ARE IGNORANT of the depth of his work. And nobody but God himself has the force of will, the constancy of decision, the purity of desire, the mind of Godliness to accomplish what is needed. It is by the Spirit of God that we have that kind of faith.

 

[Clare73]

WHERE in that post do I say faith is by works? I DO NOT SAY IT. NOR DOES @Clare73 SAY IT. And, BTW, I don't know if you were trying to make a link there or what, but if a link, it doesn't work. I went back and looked at #13 and it doesn't say what you want it to say. In fact, it says just the opposite.

But this has gone on long enough.

Where ya' been?

 

[AbbaLove]

And nobody but God himself has the force of will, the constancy of decision, the purity of desire, the mind of Godliness to accomplish what is needed. It is by the Spirit of God that we have that kind of faith.

HIS Spirit was just as Active in the OT (Hebrew Bible). Also, Active in the NT before Shavuot (Pentecost) ...

28 For she said, If I may touch but His clothes, I shall be whole. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.
34 And He said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague. (Mark 5)

7 Therefore I didn’t even think myself worthy to come to you; but say the Word, and my servant will be healed.
9 When Jesus heard these things, He marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed Him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 10 And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick. (Luke 7)

41 We are punished justly, for we are receiving what our actions deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong. 42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when You come into Your Kingdom!" 43 And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” (Luke 23)​

 

[ARBITER01]

-
Jesus is our Sanctification.



Reader....are you born again, or just water baptized and religious?


Jesus said..>"You must be born again"......and water can't do that for you.

So, when we are "In Christ", we are sanctified..... as Christ is our Sanctification.

1 Corinthians 1:30

And here is something that is very important to understand, or you'll end up trying to do works and sefl effort to be saved or to try to stay saved. And if that is your faith, then your faith in Christ is Broken.
Paul told us to "examine yourselves to be sure you are in the Faith".

2 Corinthians 13:5

Let me tell you how you do that....... Here is what you do to "examine yourself".

Ask yourself...:

"do i believe that Jesus always keeps me saved". ?.........and if your heart of faith says..>"of course"'....then you are in the faith.... You passed the Exam.

If However your heart of faith says.....>"well, only if i hold unto my faith........only if i keep Jesus's commandments......only if a keep the law........only if i DO SOMETHING THAT IS A SELF EFFORT like..... only if i keep confessing my sin and repenting">.

See that?... That is broken faith that does not Trust in Christ any longer.. That faith is SELF rightesouness, and you'll have a LIST of things you are doing to try to be saved or stay saved and you'll post your list, a lot, when discussing SALVATiON or "How do i go to Heaven".

Next.....

Our Discipleship, is not our sanctification, its only our discipleship.
Our Salvation is not our Discipleship...

A lot of Christians confuse Salvation with their Discipleship, and that leads to Legalism, = "trying to stay saved by SELF effort".
However......They are not the same.
Salvation is God offering His forgiveness and righteousness to YOU, as Christ on the Cross... This is "the gift of salvation", and "the gift of righteousness".
Discipleship is you presenting your body and behavior back to God as your discipleship, subsequent to you being SANCTIFIED by the Blood of Jesus as a Son/Daughter of God, -= Born again.

Discipleship has no effect on being "made Righteous', because JESUS is our entire sanctification, proven by the believer being "born again". "in Christ".
A born again believer has become "the righteousness of God, in Christ".
The born again have recevied "the GIFT of righteousness"....as proven by the born again being "IN CHRIST". ... See reader, you could not have any SIN, and be "in Christ".

Here are 4 things you have to understand about your "sin"......if you are born again and not just water baptized and religious.

This is basic "Pauline Theology".....

1.) 2 Corinthians 5:19. """""God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.""""

2.) 2 Corinthians 5:21. """"God made Jesus who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

3.) Hebrews 10: 12. """But Jesus, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;""""

4.) Romans 4:8.. """Bless are the born again unto who God will not impute (charge) SIN"


The BORN AGAIN.... are "made righteous", so, we can't become more righteous, but we can exist in renewed mind perfection as a BELIEVER.
Paul says of those of us who are in that renewed mind.... .we are.." "as many as be Perfect"".

Also.....Spiritual Fruit coming out of you comes from the renewed mind, through Christ.
Committing "works of the Flesh" that leads to Confessing and repenting, comes out of the carnal "un-renewed" mind issue, through You.

To become "perfected", and exist as "the fullness of the Stature of Christ" is not found by doing deeds, its only found by having a perfectly renewed Mind that always and only reflects God's perspective of who we are as a born again "NEW CREATION", made so by God Himself.

Notice that the NT teaches you that you please God by "faith", and = "without Faith it is mpossible to please God ""..... and that faith isn't deeds and works...but rather its found in perfected spiritual understanding .
= THE renewed MIND..
That is the REAL walk of Faith, and its not found by trying to be good, trying to be like Christ... and keep commandments....... Its THIS = Its to exist in revelation knowledge of who you have become as a "New Creation IN CHRIST"...., as then..... you are now existing in the renewed mind.

Reader, the "Helmet of Salvation" .....

Ephesians 6:11

= is LITERALLY the correct understanding of being "made righteous", having become "the righteousness of God in Christ"., as this is the "new Creation".
So.....If you dont have this piece of God's armor figured out and on your head as the "renewed Mind".... then DECEIVERS will get in your head and their false gospel and false theology will become your helmet. It will become your broken faith. Deception will become your Truth.
Or as Jesus told you, "be careful that the Light that is in you, is not DARKNESS"...

Luke 11:35

He seems to have a lot of these threads he's started in the forum hoping to be a little preacher in front of us all it seems,....

Sanctification is listed as an act by our Lord, but it is also an ongoing work on our part,...

John 17:17
Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.

1 Thessalonians 4:4
that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

There are verses that have the past tense as if it is a completed thing by Jesus, but also verses like the ones I presented here that show an ongoing work by the Christian, that it is never a completed thing.

How one understands this is up to The Holy Spirit. Only He reveals the truth to us.

As far as works go, Jesus specifically stated that if we believed in Him we would doing His works,....

Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you the one believing in Me, the works which I do, that one shall do also, and greater than these he will do, because I am going to My Father.

This wasn't directed at the apostles, it was to "the-one believing in Me." Also there is no disclaimer here from Jesus. The works that GOD performed through Him are to be happening through us also, and that includes the operation of the gifts.

The works by Jesus were the works that James eluded to that were to be added to our faith also.

 

[Chaleb]

Sanctification is listed as an act by our Lord, but it is also an ongoing work on our part,...

Here is the Sanctification of the Born Again.

1 Corinthians 1:30

How is this applied to the born again?
It happens by being joined to Christ, Spiritually, as this makes the born again this....>"One with God".

There is the sanctification of the Born again. Its only found "in Christ".

 

[Mark Quayle]

HIS Spirit was just as Active in the OT (Hebrew Bible). Also, Active in the NT before Shavuot (Pentecost) ...

28 For she said, If I may touch but His clothes, I shall be whole. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.​

34 And He said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague. (Mark 5)​

​

7 Therefore I didn’t even think myself worthy to come to you; but say the Word, and my servant will be healed.​

9 When Jesus heard these things, He marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed Him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 10 And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick. (Luke 7)​

​

41 We are punished justly, for we are receiving what our actions deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong. 42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when You come into Your Kingdom!" 43 And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” (Luke 23)​

I agree completely. Not sure if you meant to disagree with me or what.

 

[AbbaLove]

I agree completely. Not sure if you meant to disagree with me or what.

Better to fine reason to agree with a Follower of Christ Jesus than find reason to disagree. Appreciate your insightful posts.