Jesus : Our Sanctification

[Chaleb]

Like Clare and Mark previously posted you are misrepresenting the "works" of a mature 'born again' Christian.

Just for your information, and so you can be honest in your next post, AbbaLove..

Clare73, has never said a word to me about "misrepresenting" anything.
She posted something a few days ago that i replied to, and she has not said anything since.
She has had a few days to post a follow up, regarding what i posted, and she has not done so.
So, for you to say she posted that i misrepresented" is simply a lie.
Dont lie, as lying is a sin, isn't it?

Im happy to talk to Clare73. anytime.
All are welcome to my Threads.
Come as you are.

Also, so that you know...Its MARK that is saying what you are implying, and he apparently does not realize that Clarir73, has never once posted that what i wrote isn't true, or is a misrepresentaiton.

My advice to you and Mark, is to think about what i just told you, and correct your behavior, asap.

 

[Chaleb]

Your teaching is a very popular today in 21st Century Christianity. So being in the majority you must be right. Also no need for you to even attempt to give us your interpretation of James 2:14-26 as there is more than a 50/50 chance it's another misrepresentation of HIS Word as inspired by the Holy Spirit. Yes, that's right ... inspired by the Holy Spirit are the true "works" to which James refers.

And also, you do realize that stating that im "misrepresenting", without even a quote.... is just a heretical tactic that has no basis in truth.
Its just dishonest implication, that you find some playing with, on a forum like this one.
And they should know that this type of dishonesty is inspired foolishness, carnality, dumb.

You understand.....Im sure you do, AbbaLove.

Also, regarding your verses from : James..

"Can faith save you"?

= No.

Why not,? Because God is the Savior, not your faith.

Here let me show you how that works.....

Did FAITH die on the Cross for your sin, AbbaLove?

If it did, then Faith is the Savior. However because = CHRIST died for your sin on The Cross, then He......and not your faith.....If your Savior.

Be sure you understand that, as James absolutely understood that "Abraham is Justified by faith", and "Abraham is the father of our Faith"., as Paul teaches.

 

[Soyeong]

Soyeong.

The Cross does not require you to bring your goodness to it.........it just required you to bring your sin., so that God could forgive it all, and make you His Own "new Creation" through Christ's sacrifice.

What you are explaining, is how you are to behave.. what you are to do....AFTER you are saved. = "present your body a living sacrifice".

Be careful that you do not require God to change the Cross so that you can perform your self effort in place of Jesus's Blood and Death and Sacrifice to be saved and stay saved., as that is Legalism.

I did not claim that the cross required us to bring our goodness. Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we only had our sins forgiven while we continued to live in sin, so our salvation from sin must also involve being saved from continuing to live in sin, which is why Titus 2:11-14 describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do those works, and why it says that Jesus gave himself both to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works. Again, it does not say ether that we are saved as the result of having done those works or that we will do those works as the result of having been saved, but rather it describes the content of God's gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do those works, and the fact that we are not saved while refusing to participate in that training mean that it is required for salvation. It is not giving credit where it is due for you to think that we are relying on ourselves by obediently relying on what God has instructed, but rather that is the way to rely on God.

 

[Chaleb]

the fact that we are not saved while refusing to participate in that training mean that it is required for salvation.

You are teaching that while you are doing WORKS, you are saved, and that denies that The Cross of Christ is God's Salvation.

Dont ADD your works to the Cross. as that is the Devil's Gospel.

Listen, you do works because you ARE SAVED, not to try to stay saved, as when you do that, you are not trusting in Christ, you are trusting in WORKS.

WORKS have no part in Salvation., as our Salvation is Jesus on the Cross 2000 yrs ago, Soyeong.
Works are a part of DISCIPLESHIP< ... we do them = BECAUSE God has ALREADY Redeemed you and made you His own based on the Cross of Christ.

 

[Soyeong]

You are teaching that while you are doing WORKS, you are saved, and that denies that The Cross of Christ is God's Salvation.

Dont ADD your works to the Cross. as that is the Devil's Gospel.

Listen, you do works because you ARE SAVED, not to try to stay saved, as when you do that, you are not trusting in Christ, you are trusting in WORKS.

WORKS have no part in Salvation., as our Salvation is Jesus on the Cross 2000 yrs ago, Soyeong.
Works are a part of DISCIPLESHIP< ... we do them = BECAUSE God has ALREADY Redeemed you and made you His own based on the Cross of Christ.

I'm teaching that doing good works is intrinsically part of the concept of being saved from not doing good works, which is not denying what Jesus accomplished through the cross, but rather that is the way to believe in what he accomplished. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so again being zealous for doing good works is not adding our works to the cross, but rather that is the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law is how we know what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an central part of the Gospel message. In Acts 2:38, when Peter told his audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, God's law was again how they knew what sin is. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul's Gospel involved bringing Gentiles to full obedience in word and in deed. Furthermore, Romans 10:16, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, and 1 Peter 4:17 all speak against those who do not obey the Gospel, so you are saying that Jesus, Peter, and Paul all taught the Devil's Gospel.

Again, Titus 2:11-14 does not say that we will do those works because we are saved, but rather it describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do those works. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so you are incorrect to think that obedience to God's word is something other than the salvation that is found in Jesus. It is contradictory for you to think that that we should rely on God for salvation, but should not rely on what God has instructed for salvation, but rather relying on what God has instructed is the way to rely on God.

 

[Chaleb]

I'm teaching that doing good works is intrinsically part of the concept of being saved

Works that you perform, after you are saved......

This...>"present your body a living sacrifice'...>"take up your Cross".....>"Mortify your members"..

Its fine to post all this self effort, ..

Its not ok to teach that The Cross + works is the Gospel or Salvation, as that denies the Gospel and offends the Cross of Christ and rejects the GRACE of GOD.

I do a lot of good works.
But i dont teach that God accepts works so that my Salvation is secured.
Why dont i?
Because Salvation is JESUS on the CROSS and that is not a work you can do.

 

[Soyeong]

Works that you perform, after you are saved......

This...>"present your body a living sacrifice'...>"take up your Cross".....>"Mortify your members"..

Its fine to post all this self effort, ..

Its not ok to teach that The Cross + works is the Gospel or Salvation, as that denies the Gospel and offends the Cross of Christ and rejects the GRACE of GOD.

I do a lot of good works.
But i dont teach that God accepts works so that my Salvation is secured.
Why dont i?
Because Salvation is JESUS on the CROSS and that is not a work you can do.

Please interact with what is said in Titus 2:11-14 because you are contradicting the truth of what those verse say. Those verses do not say that we will perform those works after we are saved, but rather they describe our salvation as being trained by grace to do those works. It is contradictory to think that we are rejecting the grace of God by doing what God is being gracious to us by teaching us to do, but rather the opposite is true. Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so being zealous for doing good works is not adding our works to the cross, but rather that is believing in what Jesus gave himself to accomplish through the cross.

Please interact with the fact that the Gospel that Jesus taught calls for us to repent from transgressing God's law, so living in obedience to it is not the way to deny the Gospel, but rather it is the way to believe in it.

Please interact with interact with the issue that Jesus is God's word made flesh, so living obedience to God's word is the salvation that we have in him.

Also, please interact with the issue that relying on what God has instructed is relying on God rather than ourselves.

 

[Chaleb]

Please interact with what is said in Titus 2:11-14

Im happy to do this for you, Soyeong.


1.) 11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,

This is " a child is born this day in Bethlehem"

"and you shall call his name JESUS" "emmanuel"... "God with us".. "God come down from above", . or as Jesus told you..>"I AM from above and YOU are from Below"...

This is Jesus THE Lord, who died on the Cross, the Holy Son of God, the Bread come down from heaven, the Bread of Life Himself, born of a virgin, made under the law,= sinless.
He is God's Grace.
Jesus is God's Salvation.
Jesus is the one time eternal sacrifice for the sin of the world.

All that believe in Jesus have eternal life and are saved.

Proof?

A.) Born again.

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2) teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

This is the born again believers, "walk of Faith".

"Discipleship", that follows Salvation.

The Born again have Salvation already, as God saved them while the were "yet sinners', and now.... having received "The gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Righteousness", ... proven by being "Born again", they are to "present your body a living sacrifice".

Jesus said....>"you must be born again", as this is the only PROOF you have become a CHRISTian.

And now being born again, you are to walk the walk of faith, "presenting your body as a living sacrifice" to God, because God has saved you.

You dont do this to try to stay saved.......you live your life for God, because YOU ARE SAVED, already.


Its like this Reader.

The Harlot who washed Jesus's feet with her Tears, and wiped them DRY with her hair, was not doing that to get forgiveness.
She was doing that because SHE WAS ALREADY FORGIVEN.

= That is why we LIVE OUR LIFE FOR JESUS.


See it?

 

[Soyeong]

Im happy to do this for you, Soyeong.


1.) 11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,

This is " a child is born this day in Bethlehem"

"and you shall call his name JESUS" "emmanuel"... "God with us".. "God come down from above", . or as Jesus told you..>"I AM from above and YOU are from Below"...

This is Jesus THE Lord, who died on the Cross, the Holy Son of God, the Bread come down from heaven, the Bread of Life Himself, born of a virgin, made under the law,= sinless.
He is God's Grace.
Jesus is God's Salvation.
Jesus is the one time eternal sacrifice for the sin of the world.

All that believe in Jesus have eternal life and are saved.

Proof?

A.) Born again.

---------------------------------------------------------------------


2) teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

This is the born again believers, "walk of Faith".

"Discipleship", that follows Salvation.

The Born again have Salvation already, as God saved them while the were "yet sinners', and now.... having received "The gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Righteousness", ... proven by being "Born again", they are to "present your body a living sacrifice".

Jesus said....>"you must be born again", as this is the only PROOF you have become a CHRISTian.

And now being born again, you are to walk the walk of faith, "presenting your body as a living sacrifice" to God, because God has saved you.

You dont do this to try to stay saved.......you live your life for God, because YOU ARE SAVED, already.


Its like this Reader.

The Harlot who washed Jesus's feet with her Tears, and wiped them DRY with her hair, was not doing that to get forgiveness.
She was doing that because SHE WAS ALREADY FORGIVEN.

= That is why we LIVE OUR LIFE FOR JESUS.


See it?

Please interact with the issue that is describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do those works rather than saying that we will do those works because we are saved. You want to separate discipleship from salvation, but what you describe as discipleship is what Titus 2:11-14 describes as the content our gift of salvation. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Law of God are not born again, so being born again is not separate from being someone who lives in obedience to God's law. Likewise, the gift of righteousness is the gift of becoming someone who does what is righteous in obedience to God's law. Christ set an example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so following Christ's example is the way to follow him. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so obeying them is the way to believe in him, which is the gift of eternal life.

 

[Chaleb]

Please interact with the issue that is describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do those works rather than saying that we will do those works because we are saved.

Reader...

Just as water baptism follows.... is Subsequent to Salvation......so are our works.

Here is the thing about all this self effort......= commandment keeping, lawkeeping, water baptism, trying to be like Christ..... even confessing sin..

ALL of this, can be done before you are actually saved.
There are thousands of people who died and went to hell today, and they were water baprisied commandment keepers.

Why are they in hell?

Because Jesus told you....>"You must be born again"...

A hell bound sinner, a Christ Rejector= can be water baptized, and confess sin, and try to keep commandments, ... all these WORKS that a Christian can become confused about as..>"i have to do all this now, so that i can stay saved. "if i do all that STUFF, i am proving my righteosness".

No you are not. You are just doing the same works that an unbeliever can do.
And that is a fact.

Listen, none of that will save you, before God saves you based on the CROSS, so all those works are just as meaningless to God, after you are saved.

Carnal minded believers obsess on.........do this, do that, keep this, keep that....dont do that......and God is not that interested.

Did you ever read the BIbie?
Read about CAIN......... Abel's brother.
He tried to come to God with all his self righteous works, and God told Cain to : GET OUT !

Abel came to God with the blood, and God said...>"WELCOME".

A lot of so called '"believers" hang around "christian' forums trying to shove their works into God's face, in Place of the Cross of Christ.
JUDE........says, that this is the "error of Cain".

Listen.... God is interested in your heart and your understanding.
THOSE are what God is looking for, and not your works, as works are just works and an unbeliever can do them ALL.
Reader....Get your heart and your FAITH right, and you have understood what God understands and wants from you.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Never teach...

"God saved me by my faith, and now i have to be obedient, do works, get water baptized, keep commandments, and the law, to Keep Myself Saved".

Let me show you something.

Here is the Devil's Gospel.

"yes, Jesus saved you, but now you have to do these other things, to stay saved, to prove righteousness, to go to heaven".

Don't be that one, Mark.

This is really starting to get old. I'M NOT THAT ONE. Can you show me where I said what you quote, or even where @clare said it? You apparently inferred it from something, but it was never implied. Get that through your head.

 

[Chaleb]

This is really starting to get old. I'M NOT THAT ONE. Can you show me where I said what you quote, or even where @clare said it? You apparently inferred it from something, but it was never implied. Get that through your head.

Posted below is just one of your posts, where you accuse me, regarding Clare73.

Make sure you get that "in you head". Mark.


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• Yesterday at 3:10 PM
• Add bookmark
• #13

Mark Quayle said:
1) Is that faith (since you say it is not a work) generated by the Spirit of God, or by the person?

2) So you continue to press this question, as though @Clare73 says a believer keeps oneself saved. Get this through your head: Clare does not say that, and didn't say that, and won't say that. See that?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Posted below is just one of your posts, where you accuse me, regarding Clare73.

Make sure you get that "in you head". Mark.


----------------

• Yesterday at 3:10 PM
• Add bookmark
• #13

Mark Quayle said:
1) Is that faith (since you say it is not a work) generated by the Spirit of God, or by the person?

2) So you continue to press this question, as though @Clare73 says a believer keeps oneself saved. Get this through your head: Clare does not say that, and didn't say that, and won't say that. See that?

WHERE in that post do I say faith is by works? I DO NOT SAY IT. NOR DOES @Clare73 SAY IT. And, BTW, I don't know if you were trying to make a link there or what, but if a link, it doesn't work. I went back and looked at #13 and it doesn't say what you want it to say. In fact, it says just the opposite.

But this has gone on long enough.

 

[Chaleb]

WHERE in that post do I say faith is by works? I DO NOT SAY IT. NOR DOES @Clare73 SAY IT

First of all, i never told Clare73, or you, or The Buddha, that she said that "faith is a work".
You are just one confused person.

Here is the reality check.. Let me rewind as my memory is a thing of beauty, fella.
Clare73, right after she lectured me about Calvinism, in a separate Thread, came to my "Sanctification" Thread i'd just posted.... 1st person to post....(maybe she's deleted it) .... by now?
And she said that works lead to righteousness, then holiness.

Its this, Mark, as i showed you before.

"""""There is still WORK to be done
which leads to righteousness leading to holiness """

And i posted that there is no WORK that :""""leads to righteousness.. or Holiness" as she taught on my Thread.
Why?
Because God gives us the "Gift of Righteousness" or we dont have any and we die and go to hell.

And since that post, and for a few days, you have been on an obsession about this and you need to get off of it.
She's not on an obsession.
Ive not heard from her since MY Post to her , yet (see all your posts about Clare73)
You are obsessing about her post, and my response, in many posts for a few days now..

You could go and delete them all and then deny everything., but i have them all in my Posts as i always quote people like you.

So, Time to realize yourself and move on, Mark.
Some other dishonest person tried the same thing today and i helped him understand that lies dont work well on Christian Forums.

Figure it out.
He did.

 

[Mark Quayle]

First of all, i never told Clare73, or you, or The Buddha, that she said that "faith is a work".
You are just one confused person.

Here is the reality check.. Let me rewind as my memory is a thing of beauty, fella.
Clare73, right after she lectured me about Calvinism, in a separate Thread, came to my "Sanctification" Thread i'd just posted.... 1st person to post....(maybe she's deleted it) .... by now?
And she said that works lead to righteousness, then holiness.

Its this, Mark, as i showed you before.

"""""There is still WORK to be done
which leads to righteousness leading to holiness """

Do you not understand that there is a difference between Justification and Sanctification? @clare is not saying that there is further work to be done in producing the righteousness granted us in our justification. She is talking about our subsequent growth. Obedience DOES lead to righteousness which leads to holiness.

And i posted that there is no WORK that :""""leads to righteousness.. or Holiness" as she taught on my Thread.
Why?
Because God gives us the "Gift of Righteousness" or we dont have any and we die and go to hell..

She has not denied that God gives us the "Gift of Righteousness". In fact, she teaches that very fact, rather often.

And since that post, and for a few days, you have been on an obsession about this and you need to get off of it.
She's not on an obsession.
Ive not heard from her since MY Post to her , yet (see all your posts about Clare73)
You are obsessing about her post, and my response, in many posts for a few days now..

I don't like what I say, nor what another says, to be misrepresented, and for their character to be slandered. You continually post things that she does NOT disagree with as though she did. You make it look like she claims salvation is by works. She doesn't. You also make it look like I say the same. I don't. Stop.

But you want me to look the other way, and let you get away with it.

You could go and delete them all and then deny everything., but i have them all in my Posts as i always quote people like you.

Now you try to imply I would do such a thing --to imply that I am dishonest. Do you have any evidence that I have ever done such a thing?

So, Time to realize yourself and move on, Mark.
Some other dishonest person tried the same thing today and i helped him understand that lies dont work well on Christian Forums.

Figure it out.
He did.

Like all of us, you, in all your integrity, will be judged by your own measure.

 

[Chaleb]

Do you not understand that there is a difference between Justification and Sanctification?

Mark,

Why are you still obsessing on a post from 4 days ago?
Clare73 has not said another word about it, and you can't stop talking about it.

Now, She didnt speak about Justification or Sanctification on my Thread.
She posted that works end up as righteousness<>Holiness.


And if you want to understand a Believers Sanctification, then read my Thread about it.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Mark,

Why are you still obsessing on a post from 4 days ago?
Clare73 has not said another word about it, and you can't stop talking about it.

@clare is too smart to get hung up in your weeds. But I'm not Clare. You ask why. Because, as I said in my last post but you seem to have not read it, I don't like being misrepresented, nor to see others misrepresented, just as you did once again below.

Now, She didnt speak about Justification or Sanctification on my Thread.
She posted that works end up as righteousness<>Holiness.

She was talking about the works one does SUBSEQUENT to Justification

And if you want to understand a Believers Sanctification, then read my Thread about it.

Why would you say that? Are you some sort of Authority on the subject? I can read the Bible just fine, thank you.

But what would you think if I said, "And if you want to understand Justification, read my Thread about it.", when you hadn't even hinted wanting to know about justification. Really? But arrogance runs right along with error.

 

[Chaleb]

@clare is too smart to get hung up in your weeds

Why are you still obsessing on Clare73 for 4 days now?

Get yourself together, Mark.

 

[Chaleb]

Before Paul was born again, he said that he had been "" blameless in the law.""

He had kept it, and later found that Christianity is not based on that,..... and discovered that in his inner man there is a tremendous conflict that occurs if he tried to strive to be holy in his flesh, (self effort)(law keeping)...., as this SELF Righteousness.... warred against the knowledge regarding who he had become in Christ. (The Renewed Mind).
This "war" was happening in his HEAD, and He had to get his MIND right to find deliverance.

So do you, if you are born again and not just water baptized and religious.

Paul teaches this place of correct faith, as "renewing your MIND".

Paul realized that in his body, his flesh, his natural mind (the carnal mind) = is no good thing, and to try to live the life of a Christian was actually void of any power from God, if you try to do it by self effort and striving to be good. Or as Jesus told us..."apart from me you can do NOTHING".
Reader, if you want to fail at Discipleship, then all you have to do is try to keep commandments, and law, and try to be like Christ, as your Performance that you believe is "real faith" and "real Christianity".
If you do that, you'll be a sinning and confessing and REPEAT = discipleship failure.

Paul learned that he was eternally made righteous by the sacrificial blood and death of Jesus on The Cross.... and learned to live in holiness according to "i can do all through Christ".
That understanding freed him from himself, his natural mind, his "flesh".... and enlisted the renewed mind of real faith that he discovered accesses the Power of Christ, so that he then remained here..."Christ always gives me the Victory"... over flesh, the world, and the devil.
All believers are to come to this unity of the Faith, this same renewed mind., which allows the believer deliverance from self righteousness that drives carnality and leads to works of the flesh and condemnation, and that confessing issue.
Paul teaches that when you are in that Renewed mind of real faith, you are become...>"As many as be Perfect".

 

[Mark Quayle]

Why are you still obsessing on Clare73 for 4 days now?

Get yourself together, Mark.

Can't admit to your mistake again, I see...