Jesus on How to Choose a Church

[The Liturgist]

@Valletta my friend, I am compelled to be pedantic and to note that the useful list of early Bishops of Rome, while occupying the Diocese whose bishops have since the Sixth Century been styled Popes, did not style themselves Popes. Nor did the Patriarchs of Alexandria before the early third century. I suggest these proto-Popes, who are in the Papal succession but were not actually Popes, can be anachronistically styled as Pope for purposes of veneration, but for maximum historical accuracy they might be called Archbishops. In any case they are nearly all glorified saints.

In fact Pope St. Sixtus I is especially venerated in the Syriac Orthodox Church and one of their anaphorae (Eucharistic Prayers) is named for him. There are also at least three Anaphoras of St. Peter, one of which, along with that of St. Sixtus, can be read here:

Anaphoras: The Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist

The Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.

syriacorthodoxresources.org

Some of those anaphoras are also used by the Syriac Catholics, and (since 1969 in a simplified form) by the Maronites.

Note that Sixtus is Anglicized as Xystus when translating from Syriac.

 

[timothyu]

Jesus on How to Choose a Church​

There were no churches to chose from. Jesus said to chose the Way, the will of the Father, the foundation built upon God's truth alone that His followers life would be built upon. So realistically the only choice was between the ways of man OR the way of the Father.

 

[The Liturgist]

Jesus on How to Choose a Church​

There were no churches to chose from. Jesus said to chose the Way, the will of the Father, the foundation built upon God's truth alone that His followers life would be built upon. So realistically the only choice was between the ways of man OR the way of the Father.

That’s not true. Jesus reorganized Judaism into the Christian Church, which began operations on Pentecost Sunday in 33 AD. This church, which is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church mentioned in the Creed, experienced various schisms resulting in the multiplicity of denominations, but it does not invalidate the existence of the Church Catholic.

 

[timothyu]

Jesus didn't start a religion. He presented a way of life for humans to follow until the work of the Father was done in clearing creation of adversarial spirits. And Judaism was merely presenting the scriptures foretelling Hs coming.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Jesus didn't start a religion. He presented a way of life

Jesus started a religion that is a way to live and a way of life.

 

[timothyu]

Jesus started a religion that is a way to live and a way of life.

That's called a movement. Not much wonder the whole God is coming to replace the governance of man by man thing. It was His only Gospel.

 

[The Liturgist]

Jesus didn't start a religion. He presented a way of life for humans to follow until the work of the Father was done in clearing creation of adversarial spirits. And Judaism was merely presenting the scriptures foretelling Hs coming.

I didn’t say He started a religion. I said He reorganized Judaism into His Church. Which he talks about in Matthew 16. The specific word he uses is “Ekklesia” is a complex Greek word which can refer to an assembly but also has connotations of organization and structure, as opposed to a random grouping, or an unorganized body of people. And St. Paul writes that the Church is the Body of Christ and we are saved by being grafted onto it, in 1 Corinthians.

I assume you recognize 1 Corinthians and Matthew as valid scripture?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

That's called a movement.

It is called Christianity and it is a religion.

 

[timothyu]

which can refer to an assembly but also has connotations of organization and structure, as opposed to a random grouping, or an unorganized body of people.

Jesus' movement was within Judaism. It was based on loving all as self and required no leader other than God. Kinda like the peace nd love movement grew by itself 60 years ago. It was the Father's will. Of course man has always rejected His will. It took the Gentiles to form a religion based on style of the previous governments of man, eventually aligning itself with the governments of man and rejecting the Kingdom of Jesus' gospel which ran contrary in will. It's like when you live free in a home and all of a sudden find a home owners association sudden calls the shots.

 

[The Liturgist]

Jesus' movement was within Judaism. It was based on loving all as self and required no leader other than God. Kinda like the peace nd love movement grew by itself 60 years ago. It was the Father's will. Of course man has always rejected His will. It took the Gentiles to form a religion based on style of the previous governments of man, eventually aligning itself with the governments of man and rejecting the Kingdom of Jesus' gospel which ran contrary in will. It's like when you live free in a home and all of a sudden find a home owners association sudden calls the shots.

That’s simply false. The Jews forced the Christians to leave, not vice versa. At the same time the Jews modified the litany of eighteen blessings the Shemoneh Esrei to include a 19th clause, which was a curse against “heretics” by which they meant Christians, and presumably also Samaritans and the followers of St. John the Baptist.

Also you do realize that belief in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is included in the Nicene Creed, which is part of the Christian Forums statement of faith? I assume you accept the creed since you are posting in a Christian-only area on the forum, so I would really be interested to know how you reconcile the sentiments you expressed above with it.

 

[timothyu]

how you reconcile the sentiments you expressed above with it.

Sorry, what I was referring to predates that.

 

[The Liturgist]

Sorry, what I was referring to predates that.

So you’re saying that you are advocating a position that is contrary to the Christian Forums Statement of Faith? Because if so, you should not do that in the Christian Only areas of the forum.

 

[timothyu]

So you’re saying that you are advocating a position that is contrary to the Christian Forums Statement of Faith

No.. not at all. I'm just saying what I refer to predates any concept of an apostolic church. Even the Apostles were not yet understanding Jesus while He was out doing His sermons on the Gospel of the Kingdom.. Christianity started before the official concept. Christianity was not yet a religion but the Christ's teachings about the Kingdom of God which the Pharisees also believed in but the Sadducees did not..