Jesus has broken the Sabbath

[All Becomes New]

Both are moral laws because God says they are moral laws because He placed them both in the 10.

Let's try and different approach. What is the purpose of the Sabbath?

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
The purpose of the Law for the saint is that it is written on the heart Jer 31:31-34 according to the New Covenant

What is your definition of "heart"? Because I am pretty sure I can demonstrate that it does not mean the Law of Moses.

You seem to be confused.

Jer 31:31-34 does not say "I will write heart on your mind and on your heart"
It says "I will write MY LAW on your mind and on your heart".

Jeremiah is the one writing what God said . Jeremiah and his readers both knew that the LAW of God was such that "God spoke these (TEN) words ... and He added NO MORE" Deut 5:22..

Which means at the very LEAST they included the TEN in the LAW of Moses if we let exegesis have some impact on our methods of reading the Bible.

Again - how is that even a little bit confusing.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
The purpose of the Law for the saint is that it is written on the heart Jer 31:31-34 according to the New Covenant

You realize you are saying that a mortal man can do what Christ incarnate did, right?

First of all you are arguing with the text of Jer 31:31-34 which says that under the NEW Covenant God's LAW is written on heart and mind.

Second - 1 John 2 says the one who CLAIMS to know Christ "ought himself to WALK as Christ walked".

Again -that is the text.

Rom 3:31 "we establish the law"

 

[BobRyan]

Let's try and different approach. What is the purpose of the Sabbath?

IT is a blessing to man. A day of rest Ex 20:8-11, a day of "holy convocation" Lev 23:3.
A day to be released from the rat-race daily-grind the wears the life away - and to spend time with God.
A day to be reminded of the right perspective between God and man.. not simply a few hours of devotion on a week day.

 

[All Becomes New]

BobRyan said:
The purpose of the Law for the saint is that it is written on the heart Jer 31:31-34 according to the New Covenant


You seem to be confused.

Jer 31:31-34 does not say "I will write heart on your mind and on your heart"
It says "I will write MY LAW on your mind and on your heart".

Jeremiah is the one writing what God said . Jeremiah and his readers both knew that the LAW of God was such that "God spoke these (TEN) words ... and He added NO MORE" Deut 5:22..

Which means at the very LEAST they included the TEN in the LAW of Moses if we let exegesis have some impact on our methods of reading the Bible.

Again - how is that even a little bit confusing.

Alright, I guess I just have to tell you what heart means.

1. the organ
2. seat of vital force
3. one’s inner self, seat of feeling and emotions
4. inclination, disposition
5. determination, courage
6. will, intention
7. attention, consideration, reason
8. mind in general and as a whole
9. conscience
10. metaph.
11. the organised strength of
12. God’s heart
13. misc

Now my question. Ready? Are the 10 commandments special revelation?

 

[BobRyan]

Which we cannot do... even after being born again. If we could, we would. But we can't so we don't.

Romans 8 - Paul says only the lost are stuck with "I can't"
Paul spends all of Romans 6 making that same point.

 

[All Becomes New]

BobRyan said:
The purpose of the Law for the saint is that it is written on the heart Jer 31:31-34 according to the New Covenant

First of all you are arguing with the text of Jer 31:31-34 which says that under the NEW Covenant God's LAW is written on heart and mind.

Second - 1 John 2 says the one who CLAIMS to know Christ "ought himself to WALK as Christ walked".

Again -that is the text.

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 "this IS The LOVE of God that we KEEP His commandments"

Christ was born sinless and lived a sinless life. That is not what I have posted for others.
Rather I am posting texts that you seem to understand are going directly opposed to what you have been taught on this subject -- and I am inclined to agree that these texts don't fit your current views.

Okay, mister Bible quote. So can we be perfect? Christ commands us to be perfect as well. Do you think He is expecting we actually do that?

 

[BobRyan]

Now my question. Ready? Are the 10 commandments special revelation?

God spoke them personally, directly , audibly to the entire congregation - Deut 5:22

 

[All Becomes New]

Romans 8 - Paul says only the lost are stuck with "I can't"
Paul spends all of Romans 6 making that same point.

When is the last time you broke a commandment?

 

[BobRyan]

Okay, mister Bible quote. So can we be perfect?

1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you SIN NOT"
1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the Law"

Christ commands us to be perfect as well. Do you think He is expecting we actually do that?

His statement is literally "go and SIN NO MORE"

You have been taught that you are a slave to sin and will be to the day you die - but the Bible does not teach that.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 8 - Paul says only the lost are stuck with "I can't"
Paul spends all of Romans 6 making that same point.

When is the last time you broke a commandment?

Each time I quote the Bible on this topic -- you respond as if I wrote the Bible.

 

[All Becomes New]

God spoke them personally, directly , audibly to the entire congregation - Deut 5:22

Good. I will take that as a yes. So if we have to LEARN the Law (clearly we do), then how can they be something that originates from within us?

 

[All Becomes New]

His statement is literally "go an SIN NO MORE"

True. And is he saying to never sin again? What if they do? I think that is where 1 John 2:1-2 come in.

 

[BobRyan]

Good. I will take that as a yes. So if we have to LEARN the Law (clearly we do), then how can they be something that originates from within us?

The Jer 31:31-34 text does not say "your heart will come up with My LAW" --

IT say "I WILL WRITE My Law on your heart"

 

[All Becomes New]

Each time I quote the Bible on this topic -- you respond as if I wrote the Bible.

Not what I asked. Your tradition requires that you follow the Law (written on our hearts). So I'm asking how that is going for you.

 

[BobRyan]

True. And is he saying to never sin again? What if they do? I think that is where 1 John 2:1-2 come in.

"what if"...

is not the same as "you MUST go and sin more" which is the case you are trying to make.

 

[All Becomes New]

The Jer 31:31-34 text does not say "your heart will come up with My LAW" --

IT say "I WILL WRITE My Law on your heart"

Right, which is figurative language, clearly.

 

[Gary K]

What is your definition of "heart"? Because I am pretty sure I can demonstrate that it does not mean the Law of Moses.




You realize you are saying that a mortal man can do what Christ incarnate did, right?



Which we cannot do... even after being born again. If we could, we would. But we can't so we don't.

Really? Not according to Paul.

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[All Becomes New]

"what if"...

is not the same as "you MUST go and sin more" which is the case you are trying to make.

No, that is literally what you keep telling me is that we MUST.

 

[All Becomes New]

Really? Not according to Paul.

The Fruit of the Spirit is the Law of:
1) Liberty
2) Life

That is what we have to do.

Now please tell me (either of you) what is the purpose of the Sabbath.