Jesus has broken the Sabbath

[BobRyan]

Jesse Dornfeld said:
Okay, so why does Christ need to know that he is a sinner (by the purpose of the Law)?

@BobRyan, you never responded to this.

The purpose of the Law for the lost person is to explain that they are lost.

The purpose of the Law for the saint is that it is written on the heart Jer 31:31-34 according to the New Covenant

And of course Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

And that is what Jesus did.

 

[BobRyan]

Just this part:

all of Gen, Leviticus and some of Exodus was written there at Sinai.

So that is all of it.

You want a Bible text for when Matthew was written as well?

Moses wrote Genesis and Job while in Midian.

from:
"There are there two periods during which Moses could have written Genesis: before returning to Egypt or after leaving. If before the location would be Midian; if after the location was the "wilderness" (which could also include Midian). So the location can be narrowed down to the Sinai Peninsula and the date to the time of the Exodus."

Levititcus had to be written at Sinai since it has the specifications for the Levites , sacrifices and offerings etc.

Top Ten Discoveries Related to Moses and the Exodus - Associates for Biblical Research

The top-10 archaeological discoveries related to Moses and the Exodus that affirm the Bible are presented by ABR staff writer and researcher, Bryan Windle

biblearchaeology.org

The Bible says that Moses placed his books "beside the ark" Deut 31.

 

[All Becomes New]

The purpose of the Law for the saint is that it is written on the heart Jer 31:31-34 according to the New Covenant

The New Covenant is a BETTER Covenant. One that does not require strict rule-keeping. That is why Christ says, "Unless you are more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." And later, "Who then can be saved?" "With God all things are possible."

And of course Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Right, and what Law? Rule keeping? No. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Obedience is good. But I would think if we want to follow what Christ said then He makes it explicit in Matthew 7 "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

all of Gen, Leviticus and some of Exodus was written there at Sinai.

So that is all of it.

You want a Bible text for when Matthew was written as well?

I'm asking how you know that Genesis, Leviticus, and some of Exodus was written on stone.

 

[Gary K]

@Jesse Dornfeld

When are you planning on answering this post of mine as you appear to be avoiding doing so. You've had all kinds of time as the post is two pages back.

Jesus has broken the Sabbath

First Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice willingly. True. Or do you think the Father somehow forced His own Son to subject Himself to becoming human and then dying on the cross? "Not my will, but thine be done." Not to mention many other passages that Christ only did what the Father...

www.christianforums.com

 

[All Becomes New]

@Jesse Dornfeld

When are you planning on answering this post of mine as you appear to be avoiding doing so. You've had all kinds of time as the post is two pages back.

Jesus has broken the Sabbath

First Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice willingly. True. Or do you think the Father somehow forced His own Son to subject Himself to becoming human and then dying on the cross? "Not my will, but thine be done." Not to mention many other passages that Christ only did what the Father...

www.christianforums.com

I clearly answered you, bro.

No.

 

[Gary K]

I clearly answered you, bro.

Please point out the post as it would take me a long time to find your post as you have so many of them in this thread.

 

[All Becomes New]

Please point out the post as it would take me a long time to find your post as you have so many of them in this thread.

It's literally the very next post.

 

[Gary K]

I clearly answered you, bro.

Never mind I found your answer.

No. I'm getting conflicting stories here. Were just the 10 commandments written on stone or not?

So why did you omit so much of your response?

 

[All Becomes New]

So why did you omit so much of your response?

Because I wanted to make it as clear as possible (I could not have been clearer) that I answered you directly.

 

[BobRyan]

The New Covenant is a BETTER Covenant.

Much better than the Old Covenant which Gal 3 says is "obey and live" and can first be found in Gen 2 - the very conditions made with Adam and Eve before the fall.

The new covenant is in Jer 31:31-34 - and contains elements of the one Gospel "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 and known even before that.

Jer 31:31-34

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord:​

A new heart, new Creation, new birth
I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts;

Adoption:
and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Taught of God
34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord.

Forgiveness of sins
For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The result is that Moses and Elijah stand WITH Christ in glory in Matt 17 -- even before the cross.

One that does not require strict rule-keeping.

Gen 2 required strict law keeping to stave in Eden and live forever. One sin would break the whole deal and cause Adam to be lost.
That is the same condition underwhich all the world is lost today - as we see in Rom 3:19-20. That covenant does not save

Right, and what Law? Rule keeping? No.

Christ's Commandments at Sinai include things like "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18.
But we are not told that the lost can earn their way to heaven if they simply "do not take God's name in vain".

That "not by works" fact - does not delete the command "do not take God's name in vain"

The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

Jesus is the one that gave the TEN - according to Heb 8:6-12.

What you are not quoting above -- is this

Rom 8:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

In Rom 7 the "law of sin" is described as "The sinful nature in the flesh at war with the law of my mind".

The contrast to that law of rebellion - is the "commandments of God"

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Only the born again can do that --

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Obedience is good. But I would think if we want to follow what Christ said then He makes it explicit in Matthew 7 "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

Indeed - in Matt 7 "not everyone who SAYS Lord lord will ENTER .. but he who DOES the will of the Father"

I'm asking how you know that Genesis, Leviticus, and some of Exodus was written on stone.

You have a quote from me saying "Genesis, Leviticus, and some of Exodus were written on stone." ???
-- even though I just gave you Deut 5:22 saying only the TEN were written on stone??

After referencing THE TEN - Deut 5 says --
Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

 

[All Becomes New]

Only the born again can do that

The born-again cannot do that. That's the point of Romans 7 which is why Paul says, "Therefore (because)," in Romans 8:1. That is why I asked you if you have ever transgressed the Law. If you have, then you put me at a higher standard than yourself.

 

[BobRyan]

The born-again cannot do that.

Read Rom 6 -- we are slaves of the one we obey -- we are not to obey sin.
Read Rom 8 -- only the lost "cannot submit to the Law of God" and this is not the case with the saints.

Rom 8 He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

That's the point of Romans 7 which is why Paul says, "Therefore (because)," in Romans 8:1. That is why I asked you if you have ever transgressed the Law

All have sinned Rom 3:23 but that does not mean saints are supposed to take God's name in vain.
How is this the least bit confusing?

Rom 6 says you are the slave of the one you obey.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 8:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

In Rom 7 the "law of sin" is described as "The sinful nature in the flesh at war with the law of my mind".

The contrast to that law of rebellion - is the "commandments of God"

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Only the born again can do that --

The born-again cannot do that.

You seem to be writing your own Bible at that point.

That's the point of Romans 7 which is why Paul says, "Therefore (because)," in Romans 8:1.

Romans 7 presents the problem that Romans 8 solves and Romans 8 then hammers the point that only the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Where "the first commandment with a PROMISE is 'Honor your father and mother'" -- in that unit of TEN

 

[All Becomes New]

take God's name in vain.

Oh, a new argument has entered the scene.

What does this have to do with keeping the Sabbath?

And FYI, have you answered what the purpose of the Law was for Christ yet?

 

[Gary K]

Because I wanted to make it as clear as possible (I could not have been clearer) that I answered you directly.

I see, I think. Yes, I see but not what you want me to see.

 

[BobRyan]

That's the point of Romans 7 which is why Paul says, "Therefore (because)," in Romans 8:1. That is why I asked you if you have ever transgressed the Law

All have sinned Rom 3:23 but that does not mean saints are supposed to take God's name in vain.
How is this the least bit confusing?

Rom 6 says you are the slave of the one you obey.

Oh, a new argument has entered the scene.

What does this have to do with keeping the Sabbath?

hmmm lets see... they are both in the Ten Commandments??
"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
"Remember the Sabbath" Ex 20:8-11

You brought up "transgressed the law" ---
1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the Law"

Is this the confusing part?

And FYI, have you answered what the purpose of the Law was for Christ yet?

yes. #261

have you read the post?

 

[All Becomes New]

I see, I think. Yes, I see but not what you want me to see.

There's this famous horse that shows up in history at the most spectacular times.

 

[Gary K]

Oh, a new argument has entered the scene.

What does this have to do with keeping the Sabbath?

And FYI, have you answered what the purpose of the Law was for Christ yet?

Everything, because both are found in the 10 commandments. Both are moral laws because God says they are moral laws because He placed them both in the 10.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

I've never ssid anything of the sort. Quote me, not just assert I said something that crazy.

I looked back and I can't find it. It must have been someone else.

 

[All Becomes New]

The purpose of the Law for the saint is that it is written on the heart Jer 31:31-34 according to the New Covenant

What is your definition of "heart"? Because I am pretty sure I can demonstrate that it does not mean the Law of Moses.

The purpose of the Law for the saint is that it is written on the heart Jer 31:31-34 according to the New Covenant

You realize you are saying that a mortal man can do what Christ incarnate did, right?

And that is what Jesus did.

Which we cannot do... even after being born again. If we could, we would. But we can't so we don't.