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Featured Jesus Has Been Reigning Since Pentecost

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by jgr, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    So, He's reigning now but according to Heb 10:13, He has not yet been given dominion over His enemies? Doesn't sound like a very stable or desirable monarchy.
     
  2. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ephesians 1

    19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

    20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

    21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

    22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

    23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

    Jude 1:25

    To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  3. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Now that is funny right there. You covenant people live and die by an errant intrepretation of Hebrews to combat what you consider the lie of dispensationalism, but abandon it quickly when it isn't agreeing with other errant doctrine. Solid gold.

    Of course Jesus is victorious, He just hasn't been seated on His own throne yet. But that changes soon.
     
  4. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Hi friend, while I find your statement interesting, I'm not really following you with its logic.

    We know Christ is the King now

    Zechariah 9:9
    "See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey,
    on a colt, the foal of a donkey." This was fulfilled: John 12:14-15
    Jesus found a young donkey and sat on it, as it is written: “Do not be afraid, Daughter Zion;
    see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey’s colt.”

    Hebrews 7:17
    For it is witnessed of him, “Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchiz′edek.” (If you remember from genesis, Melchizedek was both high priest AND king). This fulfills Zechariah 6:12-13 and Jeremiah 33:17-18

    We know that Christ received all authority when he ascended to heaven.

    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

    Ephesians 1:20-21 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.

    1 Peter 3:22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

    This sure sounds like a king

    We know Christ is sitting on the throne
    Revelation 3:21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.
    Hebrews 1:8
    But about the Son he (The Father) says,“Your throne, O God (Jesus), will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.


    the Bible says Christ ascended to heaven, to sit at the right hand of God UNTIL his enemies are made a foot stool (Acts 2:34-35, Hebrews 1:13, Hebrews 10:13). In heaven he must reign UNTIL ALL enemies are made a foot stool, with the last enemy of death to be defeated. (1 corinthians 15:25-26) At the last trumpet, when the resurrection of the believers occurs, then death will be defeated 1 Corinthians 15: 54.

    So I have to ask you, is Christ in heaven or on earth UNTIL his enemies are made a foot stool?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  5. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you disagree with something in the posted scriptures?
     
  6. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    Jesus has not fulfilled these prophesies yet. He will literally return in Judgment and to redeem the Church and physically reign on earth after the Great Tribulation period which you and I will shortly yet partially experience -- very possibly beginning within the next couple months. (see the event which will take place on 9-23-17 as prophesied in Rev.12:1) This event will take place during the Feast of Trumpets. We will be taken out at the last trumpet (1 Cor. 15:51, 52 & 1 Thes. 4:16, 17) The Millennial Kingdom will take place where peace will finally come to the earth. The earth is not at peace nor can it possibly be at peace with sin in it. It has been God's plan all along to rid the earth of sin and evil. He did not intend for man to suffer in a sinful world for eons without end. It will happen during this generation that began in 1948 when Israel became a nation. Add 70 years ( one generation according to David himself) and you'll come to 2018. So if we see 2018 with no incidence, not at least a start the Great Tribulation, then I will retract my view as false. But at least give it one year before you dismiss this idea. Jesus gave us a key sign in Matt. 24:14, that this gospel of the kingdom will be preached to the entire world ... and then the end will come. It just about has been preached to the entire world. And with the Middle East on fire, ISIS creating havoc, N. Korea with its threats and Russia testing the world while taking Crimea and Ukraine, we are on the precipice of something big.
     
  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Luke 24
    25 And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
    27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.
    44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
     
  8. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Then how do you believe His present victory is manifest?

    What is He currently Victorious over?

    Speaking if funny!
    Do you mean "soon" the way the apostles meant it when they said it was "soon" 2000 years ago?
    or do you mean something different?
     
  9. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi jgr,

    That would make God`s eternal Throne the throne of David, which it certainly isn`t. We know that God`s throne is eternal, above all, and that David`s throne was only given rulership in time.

    Marilyn.
     
  10. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    I agree with you there. Jesus` priesthood is of the order of Melchizedek, a king priest. The two offices together. Israel had these two offices separate and as God`s word says -

    `For if He (Christ) were on earth, He would not be a priest,.....` (Heb. 8: 4)

    Marilyn.
     
  11. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi jgr,

    I am believe in the pre-trib, doctrine, but certainly do believe that Jesus is King of Heaven, King of Glory, King of the Ages, as God`s word says, before time and on into eternity. Christ has many kingships and the rulership over Israel is but part of the restoring of rulership in all of God`s great kingdom.

    Marilyn.
     
  12. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    Revelation 11 says "The kingdom of the world has become
    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
    and he will reign for ever and ever.
    "

    Obviously this is speaking of the new earth as both God the Father and Jesus Christ will rule the kingdom of the world together, but we know that Jesus reigns for a thousand years prior to this event, so Revelation 11 does not support your position.
     
  13. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Just as the earthly temple and animal sacrifices were mere types of the heavenly realities, so too was David's earthly throne. According to the apostles, Jesus (the God-King and eternal melchizidekian priest) was raised to the eternal throne of David (Acts 2:30-36). We should therefore NOT say or teach otherwise.

    Acts 2:30-36
    "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him [David], that of the fruit of his [Davids] loins, according to the flesh, he would "raise up" Christ to sit on his [David's] throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses..."Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ

    Peter is stating a COMPLETED prophecy has occurred. "He seeing this before SPOKE OF THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST...THIS JESUS HATH GOD RAISED UP."

    Peter sees Christ's resurrection by the Father as one that gave Jesus the eternal and immortal throne of his father David. Jesus took that throne unto himself in Matthew 21:1-17, fulfilling Zechariah 9:9. His death and resurrection made his reign IMMORTAL AND ETERNAL over all of heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18-19).

    You've said that you "kinda already know that" He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords right now.

    This is what that means.

    (A side note: this also fulfills the 1000 year reign for Christ accomplished what David and all the other Kings in the line had failed to do, and in doing so, restored the Davidic Monarchy... Which, from David to Christ, was a period of.....

    Wait for it.....

    1000 years.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
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  14. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi parousia,

    No where in scripture does it say that King David`s throne is in the heavens. King David`s throne is an earthly one. It is the Lord Himself who gave David the authority and power to rule and promised that his house would continue and one from the fruit of his body would sit on his throne. (as your scripture tells us.)

    However we know that the Lord is the `Root and Offspring of David.` (Rev. 22: 16) This shows that the Lord`s authority is BEFORE ever there was a throne of David. And that throne is but part of God`s great kingdom, in every realm. Authority and Power come from the highest, and the Lord has His own throne, note, not David`s throne, but HIS VERY OWN THRONE, in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

    Marilyn.
     
  15. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Hya M.
    Tell ya what, why not take the scriptures I have cited and tell us why they don't mean what I contend they do, and instead tell us what you believe they actually DO mean?
     
  16. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    [QUOTE="parousia70, post: 71505435, member: 1081"]Hya M.
    Tell ya what, why not take the scriptures I have cited and tell us why they don't mean what I contend they do, and instead tell us what you believe they actually DO mean?[/QUOTE]

    Hi parousia,

    Why thank you bro. I would be pleased to share what I believe concerning those scriptures & a couple of others.

    1. Acts 2: 30 - 36 tells us that the Lord will `sit on David`s throne,` meaning have the rulership over Israel. However it does not say `when,` so we need more scriptures for that.

    2. Matt. 21: 1 - 17 fulfilling Zech. 9: 9. I agree that Jesus was Israel`s promised King, however we know that eventually they rejected Him and said, `we have no king but Caesar.` (John 19: 15) Finally the one-third through the trib, will have their eyes opened and receive the Lord. (Zech. 12: 10 & 13: 9)

    3. Matt. 28: 18 & 19. `All authority has given to me in heaven and on earth..` King David`s throne never had authority in heaven. So where did Jesus get this authority.

    `For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him (Christ) authority to execute judgment also,....` (John 5: 26 & 27)

    The Father`s authority and giving of life, far surpasses that of David.

    Marilyn.


     
  17. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Rather, it absolutely says when.

    In fact Peter is citing it as a PRESENT RELAITY.

    Read it again:

    Acts 2:30-36
    "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him [David], that of the fruit of his [Davids] loins, according to the flesh, he would "raise up" Christ to sit on his [David's] throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses..."Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ

    Again, Peter is stating a COMPLETED, FULFILLED prophecy has occurred. "He seeing this before SPOKE OF THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST...THIS JESUS HATH GOD RAISED UP."

    God said HE WOULD RAISE,
    Peter affirms HE DID RAISE.
     
  18. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Yes, Peter says that Jesus is both Lord and Christ. But where does it say that He is then and there ruling over Israel and they are receiving that rule?

    Marilyn.
     
  19. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Peter is explaining that in psalm 110, David, a prophet, knew that his descendent would sit on his throne, and he spoke of the ressurection of Christ as the fulfillment of this.
    Acts 2:30-31 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

    Just because they rejected Christ as king doesn't mean he isn't the king. Luke 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’” So when was Israel, who rejected Christ as king, slaughtered?

    We have to establish what king davids throne is\was.

    It was God, who in heaven, was the king of Israel before the establishment of a human king

    1 Samuel 8:7 And the Lord said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them."

    Just because God is rejected as king doesn't mean he isn't still king. He is God after all. So he allowed a human to sit on his throne as his representative.

    The true throne of David IS the throne of God
    1 Chronicles 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the Lord as king in place of David his father. And he prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.

    So for Christ to sit on Davids throne is to sit on the throne of God. The Father allowed David to sit on His throne, as his representative. It is Christ, the son of David, who sat down on the throne when he was raised up, to fulfill the promises that God made to David.

    It is Christ, who is the visible representation of the invisible God, who is sitting on the Lord's throne, reigning in heaven, with all authority over heaven and
    earth.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  20. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    How can Christ have ALL authority over heaven and earth, with his name far above ALL dominion and power and yet not be ruling over Israel as you? Jesus was sitting on his throne in heaven when he ascended and yet he would be with the apostles until the end of the age

    Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
     
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