Jesus did not come to save the ((world))

[surrender1]

The name valley of Hinnom does not occur in the Targum Isaiah 66:24 which I happen to have.

Targum Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men, the sinners, who have rebelled against my Word : for their souls shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched; and the wicked shall be judged in hell, till the righteous shall say concerning them, we have seen enough.​

Targum Isaiah wasn't written in English. The word 'hell' there is translating 'Gehenna'.

You can see the original text of Targum Jonathan here: http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/showtargum.php?bookname=12&chapter=66&verse=24&Peshitta=&Sam=
'Ge-Hinnom' is the seventh to last word in the sentence (from the left): גֵיהִנָם
​

 

[miknik5]

I don't get it

 

[Christie insb]

I don't get it

Get what?

 

[Rajni]

This says nothing about the door being shut after people die. On the contrary, Rev. 21 says the gates to the city of God are NEVER shut.

Indeed, because no one is cast off by the Lord forever (Lamentations 3:31)

 

[joinfree]

So if the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, what is that? A figment of our imagination?

No, but it is the edge of Reality. The form of the Universe acts on the objects inside it: the Dark Matter effect mine unpublished (help to publish!) explanation. Use the simple definition: all what exists comes from the Existence (the God). Evil had no origin in God. The false atheism has no origin in God. It is like in the film:

 

[Uber Genius]

It's amazing to me how many people here on this Christian forum that state -- that the whole world will be saved.

John 17:9

I pray for them: I pray not for the world

M-Bob

Exegesis, the method of translating any ancient text, will help your understanding. Followed by systematic theology which seeks to look at scriptures from a topical viewpoint.

Jesus does come to save all who seek him. He doesn't want any to perish. But remember that God created a world filled wi free creatures. In any such world he can't prevent them from freely rejecting a relationship. So the whole world isn't saved. But that doesn't say anything about God's intent for sending Jesus. God just doesn't get what he wants

 

[surrender1]

Exegesis, the method of translating any ancient text, will help your understanding. Followed by systematic theology which seeks to look at scriptures from a topical viewpoint.

Jesus does come to save all who seek him. He doesn't want any to perish. But remember that God created a world filled wi free creatures. In any such world he can't prevent them from freely rejecting a relationship. So the whole world isn't saved. But that doesn't say anything about God's intent for sending Jesus. God just doesn't get what he wants

Why can't God get what he wants without violating free will postmortem?

 

[joinfree]

The scientific support isn't enough? To be in war against God is to be in war against own Father. It is denial of own Existence.

Let me quote from False atheism is not the Atheism (Ходящий По Лжи) / Проза.ру

Opposer: "We do not discriminate between "false" gods and "true" ones. If we did, we would not be atheists in the first place."

In your place a wise-man would say: "no false gods". But you keep saying: "no God". Would it be wiser to say "no false god", than to say "no God"? A wise-man has reasons to know, what a "god" is false. The false atheist has no reasons to "kill" a god. Making war against God is truly the making war against own Father, against own roots. Such activity is denial and factual destruction of own existence. Let us sing once: "Through the fields of destruction... Only fools make the war with the brothers in arms" (the song "Brothers in arms").

 

[miknik5]

Get what?

It is clear that there is a judgement
It is clear that not all will be saved
And the argument that he'll isn't mentioned yet a place called Gehenna is which was outside the gates (door) of Jerusalem

Isnt that clear enough
That there will be some inside and some not inside

 

[miknik5]

Why can't God get what he wants without violating free will postmortem?

Because not all men will come to THE LIGHT.

 

[miknik5]

Indeed, because no one is cast off by the Lord forever (Lamentations 3:31)

John 8
If you do not believe I am HE Ye shall die in your sins. Where I am going you can not come

(Another group of people whom HE addressed (HIS disciples/those who believed in HIM) HE said something different - John 13)

 

[miknik5]

Revelation 20

Has this happened yet?

 

[Noscentia]

I have questions for you.
Would you agree that part of receiving salvation is accepting that one is a sinner and must repent? Is repenting a 'work' that one does? Does God do the repenting for the sinner?

No, I would argue that genuine repentance is a fruit of saving faith. You do not do any works to earn salvation, salvation is given. Works are a hallmark, a fruit, of being saved.

If you make works the framework of your salvation then not only does it make man his own savior, it allows you to claim to be better than those outside the church, to boast. After all, they're as equally capable of choosing to accept Christ as you, but they don't. What then, is the difference between you and them if God does not interfere with their free will? It must be because you're smarter or wiser or otherwise better than them in some way, right? How else do you explain why some choose and some don't?

 

[miknik5]

GOD turned the whole world over to disobedience so as to be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in CHRIST

No one will be able to open their mouth before GOD

No one will be justified by the LAW
And no flesh will be able to boast before HIM

 

[Hank77]

No, I would argue that genuine repentance is a fruit of saving faith. You do not do any works to earn salvation, salvation is given. Works are a hallmark, a fruit, of being saved.

I agree. It is part of the believing and is not a work anymore than believing is a work.

If you make works the framework of your salvation then not only does it make man his own savior, it allows you to claim to be better than those outside the church, to boast.

Believing/faith is not a work.

After all, they're as equally capable of choosing to accept Christ as you, but they don't. What then, is the difference between you and them if God does not interfere with their free will? It must be because you're smarter or wiser or otherwise better than them in some way, right? How else do you explain why some choose and some don't?

God says that some men won't choose Him because they prefer their life just as it is. Some people look at the ugly things in the world and say to themselves, if there is a God, He is not a good God, so they have hardened their hearts towards Him.
Because I had a different view of my life and the world and therefore God, that does not make me a wiser or better person, just maybe one who was more receptive to the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
I heard a testimony from a man who knew that the Holy Spirit was drawing him and yet he refused, not once but twice. But the third time he knew that if he refused again that the Holy Spirit would not be visiting him for a very long time and so he gave up his rebellion against God. That has been a few decades ago now. I can honestly say that he is not boastful at all. Accepting what God has done for you is humbling.

I don't believe or see anywhere in the scriptures where God has done anything Randomly. He didn't randomly choose Abram/Abraham, Issac, or Jacob, Moses, the Apostles, including Paul, and yet the Calvinist believes the God randomly chose them? Where is it in scripture that God randomly chooses people?

 

[surrender1]

Because not all men will come to THE LIGHT.

So you are saying that in God's infinite wisdom, infinite resourcefulness, and infinite love, God can't somehow woo, persuade, and lovingly convince millions and millions and millions of humans to come to the light...even postmortem with endless opportunities and time that stretches out into eternity? That even this great God of ours is unable to redeem and restore some humans, not some… Millions and millions and millions… God is unable to heal millions of broken sinners? That's a very weak God.

 

[surrender1]

GOD turned the whole world over to disobedience so as to be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in CHRIST

No one will be able to open their mouth before GOD

No one will be justified by the LAW
And no flesh will be able to boast before HIM

You are not even finishing the verse… It says that he turned all over to disobedience so that he may show mercy to all.

 

[stealthsaint]

It's amazing to me how many people here on this Christian forum that state -- that the whole world will be saved.

John 17:9

I pray for them: I pray not for the world

M-Bob

God created man

 

[stealthsaint]

Can Holy Spirit COME UPON and not reveal Himself???
1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for those of the whole world.

1 John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the evil one.

Ac 2:17 “And it shall be in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream things in dreams;

Ac 2:18 And indeed upon My slaves, both men and women, I will pour out of My Spirit in those days, and they shall prophesy.

Ac 2:19 And I will show wonders in heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke.

Ac 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord comes.

Ac 2:21 And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Salvation comes with revelation of Holy Spirit of God is true God OF SALVATION to those that have fear of circumstance, and see salvation upon them to choose. Free will still bring a choice. Can Holy Spirit COME UPON and not reveal Himself???

 

[Rajni]

Why can't God get what he wants without violating free will postmortem?

Evidently, God can't have the same influence post-mortem that a mere human, Adam, had before any of us even existed.

In any case, God has to be demoted to the more limited demi-god model in order for Christian Partialism to work.

So you are saying that in God's infinite wisdom, infinite resourcefulness, and infinite love, God can't somehow woo, persuade, and lovingly convince millions and millions and millions of humans to come to the light...even postmortem with endless opportunities and time that stretches out into eternity?

I guess not. The power to influence humanity to such a thorough degree belongs to Adam alone.
There's just some things humans can accomplish that God Himself cannot. Gotta love those ego-derived doctrines!