Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[listed]

If you deny any part of YHWH'S WORD, .... ..... .....

It seems you can't grasp that understanding His Word is not up to us.

Either His Word is TRUTH, and He Reveals the understanding,
or He doesn't Reveal the understanding,

Luke 10:21 - Bible Gateway
Luke 10:21 - Bible Gateway
At that time he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of ...[hidden these] things from [the educated] wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes:

Nothing i can relate to Deuteronomy 5.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Jeff, it is not a matter of whether His word is truth. His word cannot be false. What matters is who the message is to be applied. God has had different messages for different peoples down through the ages.

The message to Israel is not necessarily the message for new covenant Christians. Do you wear tassels on your clothing? That was a message to Israelites as you well know. Keeping ritual says given only to Israel should have no bearing on the message He has given to Christians.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Please show me the truth of Deiteronomy 5:1-3.

What is questionable?

 

[FinishedCross]

Hi Jeff, it is not a matter of whether His word is truth. His word cannot be false. What matters is who the message is to be applied. God has had different messages for different peoples down through the ages.

The message to Israel is not necessarily the message for new covenant Christians. Do you wear tassels on your clothing? That was a message to Israelites as you well know. Keeping ritual says given only to Israel should have no bearing on the message He has given to Christians.

True the Law was never given to Gentiles or the rest of humanity. The Mosaic Law is an isolated things for an isolated group of Israelites. It was never saved anyone because no one *ON EARTH* had salvation before Jesus came EXCEPT for a few who were saved like Noah, Abraham, etc. even then, they still had to accpet Christ when he preached to them after crucifixion.

The Law was illogical religious red tape that caused people to sin even more. The only real purpose of the Law was to foreshadow a lot of the Church through various typologies etc.

For instance anyone who drink the blood is cutoff from the people becsuse the life is in the blood...

It's like.. the only reason they would say 'dont do this bacause ya know, the life is in the blood thereof so thats why you shouldnt do it!'

That can only be referring to Jesus blood. eating it allows me to be cut off from the people of the Mosaic Cov't The promise to the world and eternal life is called the Abrahamic Cov't - not Mosaic. There's a HUGE difference.

The NT says a few times actually that Moses spoke to angels and NOT directly to God, But Im okay with that now becsuse know how the OT is to be handled properly. I cN do whatever I like with it as long as it makes the case steonger for Jesus. I used to believe the Bible was a Quran or Talmud. I dodnt realize the uniquness ot the OT ans NT. They are certainly NOT equals whatsoever and should never be treated as such.

I could go on and on but on the ipad now.

 

[FinishedCross]

Nothing i can relate to Deuteronomy 5.

Right away I have a BIG ISSUE with Duet 5:2

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

True the Law was never given to Gentiles or the rest of humanity.

If you will read the TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS and NEW TESTAMENT
with a view to seeing
where the pagan gentiles are in YHWH'S PLAN, in HIS WORD,
you will certainly,
hopefully, (YHWH WILLING - revelation is required no matter who),
see
how TORAH is A LIGHT for all the pagan heathen gentile nations also,
and
always was.

 

[bugkiller]

I know.
Keep listening. (or start)

What do you mean?

 

[bugkiller]

Right away I have a BIG ISSUE with Duet 5:2

Why would that be an issue?

 

[BobRyan]

Please show me the truth of Deiteronomy 5:1-3.

Deut 5
“Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, 5 while I was standing between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire and did not go up the mountain. He said,

6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

7 ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Deut 5
“Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, 5 while I was standing between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire and did not go up the mountain. He said,

6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

7 ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

Bob, I think I missed something. What is all the hoopla about Deut. 5?

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, I think I missed something. What is all the hoopla about Deut. 5?

Someone asked to see the truth in Deut 5 -- so I quoted some of it showing Truth that pretty much everyone agrees with.

For example --

6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

7 ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Someone asked to see the truth in Deut 5 -- so I quoted some of it showing Truth that pretty much everyone agrees with.

So you don't know why he asked either. LOL

 

[1John2:4]

Who in Scripture listened to YHWH and obeyed Him ?
Of everyone called and chosen by YHWH, all who listened to YHWH and obeyed Him , they all honored Scripture.

So why would you be inclined to think to disregard Scripture ?

Shabbat Shalom friend

 

[listed]

Bob, I think I missed something. What is all the hoopla about Deut. 5?

I've no objection to your butting into my exchange with BR. You do need some patience though. I post only in the earlier morning (before 10 at least).

BR and buggy have been here before on this point. BR can play like he doesn't know if he wants. There's a reason.

BR maintains Abraham had the law given to Israel and obeyed that law. The question isn't about morals here. It's about keeping the law issued to Israel at least in part.

Moses says very clearly no one prior to Israel had this law in verse 3. BR claims he did and that this law is and was from the beginning. Moses says otherwise. It's part of BR game plan to force the law in part on unsuspecting people to draw others to his religion. I know people don't believe this. They've got their head stuck in the sand.

BR also does this with Jeremiah 31. He won't or hasn't yet admitted to verse 32. Verse 32 is self defining of the word "new" in verse 31. This disallows for BR's concept the ten commandments are written on the heart. Both verses 31 and 32 indicate otherwise. Both verses are about contents and not movement or place the ten commandments (the covenant issued to Israel) are written. BR's and church's position is a person isn't a Christian unless they worship on Saturday. A few here see right through what BR posts and know the reason. They just can't come right out and say so anymore. If a person is paying attention here they'll see BR is attempting to draw people from Jesus to the law. This is why quotes from Revelation are posted. This is why BR insists everywhere the word commandment(s) is found it exclusively means the famous ten without exception. For me and others it's substituting self righteousness for the righteousness required by God. Romans makes it very clear no one can get this righteousness by keeping the law. Two well know people are used illustrating this point in chapter 4 name Abraham who didn't have the law and David who was required to keep the law and didn't as we know from the written record. Both are said to be righteous (without sin). This is true because they weren't charged. My Bible says sin remembered no more.

This in no way is intended as a slur against BR. It's a discussion about what he teaches.

I've been told only a fool would talk to and discuss with an SDA. They always win and are right. This just isn't so as you note. The main thing they do is hammer away. You should read buggy's testimony about his old SDA neighbor. They're under orders from their founder to not listen to anyone but her and their church. That is why there is this disconnected exchange here at CF.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I've no objection to your butting into my exchange with BR. You do need some patience though. I post only in the earlier morning (before 10 at least).

BR and buggy have been here before on this point. BR can play like he doesn't know if he wants. There's a reason.

BR maintains Abraham had the law given to Israel and obeyed that law. The question isn't about morals here. It's about keeping the law issued to Israel at least in part.

Moses says very clearly no one prior to Israel had this law in verse 3. BR claims he did and that this law is and was from the beginning. Moses says otherwise. It's part of BR game plan to force the law in part on unsuspecting people to draw others to his religion. I know people don't believe this. They've got their head stuck in the sand.

BR also does this with Jeremiah 31. He won't or hasn't yet admitted to verse 32. Verse 32 is self defining of the word "new" in verse 31. This disallows for BR's concept the ten commandments are written on the heart. Both verses 31 and 32 indicate otherwise. Both verses are about contents and not movement or place the ten commandments (the covenant issued to Israel) are written. BR's and church's position is a person isn't a Christian unless they worship on Saturday. A few here see right through what BR posts and know the reason. They just can't come right out and say so anymore. If a person is paying attention here they'll see BR is attempting to draw people from Jesus to the law. This is why quotes from Revelation are posted. This is why BR insists everywhere the word commandment(s) is found it exclusively means the famous ten without exception. For me and others it's substituting self righteousness for the righteousness required by God. Romans makes it very clear no one can get this righteousness by keeping the law. Two well know people are used illustrating this point in chapter 4 name Abraham who didn't have the law and David who was required to keep the law and didn't as we know from the written record. Both are said to be righteous (without sin). This is true because they weren't charged. My Bible says sin remembered no more.

This in no way is intended as a slur against BR. It's a discussion about what he teaches.

I've been told only a fool would talk to and discuss with an SDA. They always win and are right. This just isn't so as you note. The main thing they do is hammer away. You should read buggy's testimony about his old SDA neighbor. They're under orders from their founder to not listen to anyone but her and their church. That is why there is this disconnected exchange here at CF.

Thank you for this long explanation. I too was SDA, but it only took someone 3 hours for me to see the light. And I could be stubborn too.

And, I agree that every time commandments are written, an SDA or Messianic will jump to that conclusion and add the 4th to the content of the scripture that word, commandments, is in as in 1 John 3:23, even though it is Jesus on that side for our relationship with God. We are to worship Jesus, not the Sabbath (or even Sunday). He IS our Sabbath rest, not a day of the week.

 

[BobRyan]

And, I agree that every time commandments are written, an SDA or Messianic will jump to that conclusion and add the 4th to the content of the scripture that word, commandments, is in as in 1 John 3:23,

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

This thread is about Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
Notice how Jesus Himself claims that this means KEEPING the "Father's Commandment"

John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

The TEN Commandments -

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Jesus is the one speaking the TEN Commandments - AND - the New Covenant

Hebrews 8:6-10
1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Jesus said "God's Commandment" and "Moses said" and "Word of God" are terms that all apply to the Ten Commandments.

Mark 7
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the Word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Those who attempt to blame these texts on "SDAs" forget that in fact the majority of pro-sunday scholars affirm that the "Commandments of God" include God's TEN Commandments.

A Bible detail so incredibly obvious - BOTH sides admit to it. "It just does not GET any easier than this!"

(It took me about 75 seconds to see the light on this Bible detail)

 

[bugkiller]

I've no objection to your butting into my exchange with BR. You do need some patience though. I post only in the earlier morning (before 10 at least).

BR and buggy have been here before on this point. BR can play like he doesn't know if he wants. There's a reason.

BR maintains Abraham had the law given to Israel and obeyed that law. The question isn't about morals here. It's about keeping the law issued to Israel at least in part.

Moses says very clearly no one prior to Israel had this law in verse 3. BR claims he did and that this law is and was from the beginning. Moses says otherwise. It's part of BR game plan to force the law in part on unsuspecting people to draw others to his religion. I know people don't believe this. They've got their head stuck in the sand.

BR also does this with Jeremiah 31. He won't or hasn't yet admitted to verse 32. Verse 32 is self defining of the word "new" in verse 31. This disallows for BR's concept the ten commandments are written on the heart. Both verses 31 and 32 indicate otherwise. Both verses are about contents and not movement or place the ten commandments (the covenant issued to Israel) are written. BR's and church's position is a person isn't a Christian unless they worship on Saturday. A few here see right through what BR posts and know the reason. They just can't come right out and say so anymore. If a person is paying attention here they'll see BR is attempting to draw people from Jesus to the law. This is why quotes from Revelation are posted. This is why BR insists everywhere the word commandment(s) is found it exclusively means the famous ten without exception. For me and others it's substituting self righteousness for the righteousness required by God. Romans makes it very clear no one can get this righteousness by keeping the law. Two well know people are used illustrating this point in chapter 4 name Abraham who didn't have the law and David who was required to keep the law and didn't as we know from the written record. Both are said to be righteous (without sin). This is true because they weren't charged. My Bible says sin remembered no more.

This in no way is intended as a slur against BR. It's a discussion about what he teaches.

I've been told only a fool would talk to and discuss with an SDA. They always win and are right. This just isn't so as you note. The main thing they do is hammer away. You should read buggy's testimony about his old SDA neighbor. They're under orders from their founder to not listen to anyone but her and their church. That is why there is this disconnected exchange here at CF.

Excellent response.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Thank you for this long explanation. I too was SDA, but it only took someone 3 hours for me to see the light. And I could be stubborn too.

And, I agree that every time commandments are written, an SDA or Messianic will jump to that conclusion and add the 4th to the content of the scripture that word, commandments, is in as in 1 John 3:23, even though it is Jesus on that side for our relationship with God. We are to worship Jesus, not the Sabbath (or even Sunday). He IS our Sabbath rest, not a day of the week.

Have you noticed they say "happy Sabbath" as a greeting? They never talk about Jesus. Well except BR usually ends his post with "in Christ." But where does He talk about or promote things like Jn 15:10 the words of Jesus? I had a thread titled "John 15:10" that is not to be found. BR did not want to talk about commandments in that thread. Make no mistake about it BR is not here to talk about commandments or God's Word. BR is here prompting his church and looking for converts. I have been here longer than BR and have much personal experience with other SDAs. In fact my old SDA neighbor tried weekly to convert me for ten long years. He even cussed me because he could not prove me wrong for 10 years. My experience and testimony concurs with Bob S's confession found in this section of the forum. Only they have never been able to deceive me. They have caught me off guard because of their approach. I do understand all religions like BR's use the same words with different meanings. They do things like say the law (specifically meaning the 10 Cs) then slyly change it to all law without mention of the word "all." The implication is clear to those of knowledge paying attention to detail.

You were raised SDA. Bob S, listed nor I were.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

Have you noticed they say "happy Sabbath" as a greeting? They never talk about Jesus. Well except BR usually ends his post with "in Christ." But where does He talk about or promote things like Jn 15:10 the words of Jesus? I had a thread titled "John 15:10" that is not to be found. BR did not want to talk about commandments in that thread. Make no mistake about it BR is not here to talk about commandments or God's Word. BR is here prompting his church and looking for converts. I have been here longer than BR and have much personal experience with other SDAs. In fact my old SDA neighbor tried weekly to convert me for ten long years. He even cussed me because he could not prove me wrong for 10 years. My experience and testimony concurs with Bob S's confession found in this section of the forum. Only they have never been able to deceive me. They have caught me off guard because of their approach. I do understand all religions like BR's use the same words with different meanings. They do things like say the law (specifically meaning the 10 Cs) then slyly change it to all law without mention of the word "all." The implication is clear to those of knowledge paying attention to detail.

You were raised SDA. Bob S, listed nor I were.

bugkiller

I think Bob S was, at least for a while.

 

[listed]

Have you noticed they say "happy Sabbath" as a greeting? They never talk about Jesus. Well except BR usually ends his post with "in Christ." But where does He talk about or promote things like Jn 15:10 the words of Jesus? I had a thread titled "John 15:10" that is not to be found. BR did not want to talk about commandments in that thread. Make no mistake about it BR is not here to talk about commandments or God's Word. BR is here prompting his church and looking for converts. I have been here longer than BR and have much personal experience with other SDAs. In fact my old SDA neighbor tried weekly to convert me for ten long years. He even cussed me because he could not prove me wrong for 10 years. My experience and testimony concurs with Bob S's confession found in this section of the forum. Only they have never been able to deceive me. They have caught me off guard because of their approach. I do understand all religions like BR's use the same words with different meanings. They do things like say the law (specifically meaning the 10 Cs) then slyly change it to all law without mention of the word "all." The implication is clear to those of knowledge paying attention to detail.

You were raised SDA. Bob S, listed nor I were.

bugkiller

There're some interesting dynamics going on here for sure.