Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

When , in all eternity, did Jesus ever disobey, or ever rebel against YHWH, or ever do anything contrary to TORAH ?

never

Correct, everyone agrees to this. Then , next,

He gave us His Holy Spirit to live INSIDE us. God is in me.... Does He need the law, or is He righteous already?

Does He need the law in us for Him to be righteous in us, or is He righteous already ?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Correct, everyone agrees to this. Then , next,

Does He need the law in us for Him to be righteous in us, or is He righteous already ?

The law of love God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your might, and love your neighbor as yourself is in us, yes.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The law of love God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your might, and love your neighbor as yourself is in us, yes.

Accepting that for now as truth,
then which of the ten commandments will God in you disobey ?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Accepting that for now as truth,
then which of the ten commandments will God in you disobey ?

None, they are encapsulated in the commandments of our New Covenant, 1 John 3:23. But, unlike the old covenant of the Ten Commandments, He also gives us His Spirit to obey them with a new nature.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

None, they are encapsulated in the commandments of our New Covenant, 1 John 3:23. But, unlike the old covenant of the Ten Commandments, He also gives us His Spirit to obey them with a new nature.

Yes, that's true , subject to Jesus in all things.
So, then, there is nothing to quarrel about, is there ?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yes, that's true , subject to Jesus in all things.
So, then, there is nothing to quarrel about, is there ?

Were we quarrelling?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

..... earlier there was a misunderstanding in this thread.....
Nothing now.

Shalom in Jesus, TODAY and ETERNALLY!

 

[1stcenturylady]

..... earlier there was a misunderstanding in this thread.....
Nothing now.

Shalom in Jesus, TODAY and ETERNALLY!

Jeff, what do you think about Christians sinning? Some say everybody sins, but 1 John 3 says otherwise.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jeff, what do you think about Christians sinning? Some say everybody sins, but 1 John 3 says otherwise.

Relax,
and look up what Jesus Messiah King Healer Redeemer
says (when He says anything)
to all the sinners He forgives
in the New Testament.

He is the Only Way, Truth, and Life.

So He is the ONE to listen to.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Relax,
and look up what Jesus Messiah King Healer Redeemer
says (when He says anything)
to all the sinners He forgives
in the New Testament.

He is the Only Way, Truth, and Life.

So He is the ONE to listen to.

I abide in Jesus, so I know I don't willfully sin. And that's what 1 John 3:6 is referring to, willful sin.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I abide in Jesus, so I know I don't willfully sin. And that's what 1 John 3:6 is referring to, willful sin.

What does I John 1:8-10 actually mean to you?

 

[1stcenturylady]

What does I John 1:8-10 actually mean to you?

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This is because of Adam's sin. This is the same as 1 John 1:8. Without Christ if you say you have no sin you lie and the truth is not in you. Many say they are a good person and don't need Christ. They first have to see themselves as a sinner. Then if they confess their sin, He is then faithful and just to forgive them. At that point they are given the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is they who walk in the light, and their sins are continually cleansed because they only follow after the Spirit who would never lead them into willful sin. Once washed clean you have no sin, so what good would it be to say you still have sin when you are clean? Verse 8 is not about a Christian.

I want you to look at the pattern. There is a reason 8 and 10 are not together even though they are on the same theme. You see there is a Hebrew style of writing, many actually, but this one that John is using is contrasts. Read from verse five to the end of chapter one. You will see that every other verse or thought contrasts light and darkness.

5 - God is light
7 - if you walk in the light, cleanses sin
9 - if you confess you sin, cleanses sin

6 - if you walk in darkness, no truth
8 - if you say you have no sin (without Christ's blood) there is no truth
10 if you say you've never had sin, no truth.

This is why we can say we have no sin if we walk in the light of Jesus. If we do willfully sin, that just proves we are walking in darkness and have as our father, the devil.

1 John 3:4-10 New King James Version (NKJV)

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Again, every other thought is a contrast. Even though written in Greek, the style is Hebrew.

 

[bbbbbbb]

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This is because of Adam's sin. This is the same as 1 John 1:8. Without Christ if you say you have no sin you lie and the truth is not in you. Many say they are a good person and don't need Christ. They first have to see themselves as a sinner. Then if they confess their sin, He is then faithful and just to forgive them. At that point they are given the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is they who walk in the light, and their sins are continually cleansed because they only follow after the Spirit who would never lead them into willful sin. Once washed clean you have no sin, so what good would it be to say you still have sin when you are clean? Verse 8 is not about a Christian.

I want you to look at the pattern. There is a reason 8 and 10 are not together even though they are on the same theme. You see there is a Hebrew style of writing, many actually, but this one that John is using is contrasts. Read from verse five to the end of chapter one. You will see that every other verse or thought contrasts light and darkness.

5 - God is light
7 - if you walk in the light, cleanses sin
9 - if you confess you sin, cleanses sin

6 - if you walk in darkness, no truth
8 - if you say you have no sin (without Christ's blood) there is no truth
10 if you say you've never had sin, no truth.

This is why we can say we have no sin if we walk in the light of Jesus. If we do willfully sin, that just proves we are walking in darkness and have as our father, the devil.

1 John 3:4-10 New King James Version (NKJV)

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Again, every other thought is a contrast. Even though written in Greek, the style is Hebrew.

Is there a reason John chose to use the present tense rather than the past tense in verses 8 and 10? Is this letter addressed to non-Christians or Christians?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Is there a reason John chose to use the present tense rather than the past tense in verses 8 and 10? Is this letter addressed to non-Christians or Christians?

In chapter 4:1-3 you see what was happening, and it was happening inside John's congregation, thus the need for present tense. Some even went out from among them because of this false teaching. These false teachers were saying that Jesus did not come in the flesh, but only Spirit, thus only sins of the spirit are sins, and sins of the flesh are not. They were not recognizing their sins as being sins, thus they were "without sin." In fact, the Nicolaitans gave their own wives to be raped by other men, all to show the power of grace. They also taught that to receive grace they MUST sin, and the more they sinned the more grace would abound.

Do not hide behind 1 John 1:8 to justify weakness of the flesh. That is wrong. 1 John 1:7 is about a Christian, and 1 John 1:9 is how to become a Christian. 6, 8 and 10 are against the Gnostic teachings which infiltrated the church.

Read 1 John 3:4-10 in you still have any doubts.

Paul used present tense in Romans 7, but he was describing life under the law as a Pharisee, even though he now had Christ. The answer to the problem in Romans 7 was answered at the end of the chapter, and the answer was Christ who gives us the Holy Spirit. Now therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk after the flesh but after THE SPIRIT.

Paul also said he was the greatest sinner, even though that was past tense, as his sins are cleansed.

Don't let the tense throw you. It is only so we can relate.

 

[BobRyan]

Is there a reason John chose to use the present tense rather than the past tense in verses 8 and 10? Is this letter addressed to non-Christians or Christians?

1. IF you say you have never sinned - then you are claiming you don't need a savior - -you never sinned so you don't need to be saved from sin. John says that is a problem
2. But 1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not" is not saying "these things I write to you because you stopped sinning when you got converted".

 

[1stcenturylady]

1. IF you say you have never sinned - then you are claiming you don't need a savior - -you never sinned so you don't need to be saved from sin. John says that is a problem
2. But 1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not" is not saying "these things I write to you because you stopped sinning when you got converted".

7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Paul said, "I die daily." That is so he can continually walk in the Spirit.

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin.

 

[BobRyan]

I am all for victory over sin. 1 John 2:1 "sin not"
1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the LAW".

That means no taking God's name in vain "for real".

 

[listed]

I am all for victory over sin. 1 John 2:1 "sin not"
1 John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the LAW".

That means no taking God's name in vain "for real".

Please tell how this could apply to Abraham.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Please tell how this could apply to Abraham.

Beautifully.
Wondrously.
Delightfully.
Amazingly.
Graciously.
Seriously.
Comletely.
Perfectly.

 

[BobRyan]

Please tell how this could apply to Abraham.

Easy -- read Genesis -

Gen 26
4 I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”