Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[bugkiller]

Again, who, ever, denied or said something to the contrary?

Your words: <<Jesus fulfilled>> --<fulfilled>. Does not to fulfil mean to prove, confirm, stamp approval plus also, fill, add to, finish, perfect?

Perfect what? <<the new and better covenant>> which you equate with <<the whole law>> ... the WHOLE Law which "God, SPOKE in times past in sundry ways through the prophets but in these last days spoke BY THE SON" <<at Calvary>>!

Now that is the single coherent with the nature and character of Almighty Unchangeable GOD New Covenant of Grace or it is nor ever was no Covenant of God's!

I do not believe you are coherent. Heb 1:1 and 2 do not say anything like what you posted above. Neither BobS nor I equate the law or whole law with the NC.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Which here simply is your, BobS' <trimmings> -- <trimmings> to your own embroidering about <jots of Torah> that would <<not pass>>, but <<passed from Torah>> -- <Torah> which both he, BobS, and <<He (Jesus) had just stated>> that He had <fulfilled>.

BobS is scripturally correct .

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

You did not answer my question.

Is legal obedience, pursuing a righteousness through the law, then a work of the flesh?

Please clarify the real intent and substance of your question.

1. Are you asking if being lost - is a "Work of the flesh" no matter how one Honor's one's parents as a lost person?
2. Are you asking about a lost person that does not take God's name in vain - if that is a "work of the flesh"?
3. Are you asking about a saved person that chooses to honor God's commandments including not taking God's name in vain?

What exactly are you asking?

 

[BobRyan]

Feel free not to respond to this if you wish, but I was wondering something. You must believe I am committing wilfull, open rebellion against God without conscience.

Do you bow down to images and promise to serve those they represent - in your worship service? yes or no?

This will help get you to answer your own question.

 

[bugkiller]

Please clarify the real intent and substance of your question.

1. Are you asking if being lost - is a "Work of the flesh" no matter how one Honor's one's parents as a lost person?
2. Are you asking about a lost person that does not take God's name in vain - if that is a "work of the flesh"?
3. Are you asking about a saved person that chooses to honor God's commandments including not taking God's name in vain?

What exactly are you asking?

Why can you not just say - No it is not or yes it is?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Do you bow down to images and promise to serve those they represent - in your worship service? yes or no?

This will help get you to answer your own question.

Why are you asking such a question? I can see no reason for it.

bugkiller

 

[Original Happy Camper]

It seems like SDAs have been programed to see scripture in many places differently as that is the only way they can justify their belief system.

Jesus Speaking
Matthew 4:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Exodus 31King James Version (KJV)
31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Bob S which one of the above scriptures is in error?

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus Speaking
Matthew 4:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Exodus 31King James Version (KJV)
31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Bob S which one of the above scriptures is in error?

Neither apply to the new covenant so the error is your mis-application of them.

 

[klutedavid]

Please clarify the real intent and substance of your question.

1. Are you asking if being lost - is a "Work of the flesh" no matter how one Honor's one's parents as a lost person?
2. Are you asking about a lost person that does not take God's name in vain - if that is a "work of the flesh"?
3. Are you asking about a saved person that chooses to honor God's commandments including not taking God's name in vain?

What exactly are you asking?

Hello Bob.

More information regarding the previous question I asked, i.e., is legal obedience a work of the flesh.

Paul states the following regarding the flesh.

Philippians 3
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh.

We put no confidence in the flesh! Yes, but what is this 'flesh', that Paul speaks of?

Paul then lists the categories of his flesh.
1) Circumcision
2) Citizenship of Israel
3) Born of the tribe of Benjamin
4) A Hebrew by birth
5) Obedience to the law, blameless.

Paul noted that his obedience to the law was a work of the flesh.

So again I will ask you Bob, is legal obedience a work of the flesh?

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Neither apply to the new covenant so the error is your mis-application of them.

Feel free to explain the mis-application to me

Did Jesus speak the new Covenant?
And this
31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:

Did the animal sacrifice system end with the crucifixion, Yes it was finished, completed (fulfilled)

Last time I looked the 10 commandments could not be fulfilled (to bring to an end; finish or complete,) only kept (obeyed) which Christ did.

 

[bugkiller]

Jesus Speaking
Matthew 4:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Exodus 31King James Version (KJV)
31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Bob S which one of the above scriptures is in error?

I am not Bob and can not post for him, but let me say neither. Who is Moses speaking to in v 14 of your quote? According to the rules and common usage of English the word "you" does not mean generally all mankind. The word "you" is always exclusive and specified.

bugkiller

 

[ewq1938]

Feel free to explain the mis-application to me

Both scriptures were within the old covenant. You can't apply those to after the new covenant was in effect. Reversely No one commands the 4th commandment in the new covenant, not Christ nor anyone else. Christ, his disciples, and the Father worked on the Sabbath and those that follow God will as well.

 

[bugkiller]

Did the animal sacrifice system end with the crucifixion, Yes it was finished, completed (fulfilled)

Last time I looked the 10 commandments could not be fulfilled (to bring to an end; finish or complete,) only kept (obeyed) which Christ did.

You seem to not understand any of the following referenced passages -

Jer 31:31-33
Lk 16:16; 24:44
Jn1:17; 15:10

and for you I will not use Paul.

bugkiller

 

[klutedavid]

Did the animal sacrifice system end with the crucifixion, Yes it was finished, completed (fulfilled)

Last time I looked the 10 commandments could not be fulfilled (to bring to an end; finish or complete,) only kept (obeyed) which Christ did.

Hello HC.

Jesus fulfilled all things in the law and the prophets, not some things!

Luke 24:44
Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

John 19:28
After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, “I am thirsty.”

 

[stuart lawrence]

Do you bow down to images and promise to serve those they represent - in your worship service? yes or no?

This will help get you to answer your own question.

If I could murder without conscience, would you consider I could be a Christian?
If I could habitually steal without conscience would you consider I could be a christian?
If I could continually commit adultery as a lifestyle without conscience, would you consider I could be a christian?
If I didn't love God, and had no conscience about that, would you consider I could be a christian?
Isn't the fourth commandment, as written as important to you as the rest?

 

[ewq1938]

Isn't the fourth commandment, as written as important to you as the rest?

The Sabbath is kept in a different and better way now than it used to be.

 

[BobRyan]

Neither apply to the new covenant so the error is your mis-application of them.

The idea that Christ's teaching does not apply to the NEW Covenant - is news to most Christians.

It is certainly news to me - given that in Matt 28 Jesus commanded the disciples to teach the world - what He had taught them.

 

[BobRyan]

Feel free not to respond to this if you wish, but I was wondering something. You must believe I am committing wilfull, open rebellion against God without conscience.

Do you bow down to images and promise to serve those they represent - in your worship service? yes or no?

This will help get you to answer your own question.

If I could murder without conscience, would you consider I could be a Christian?

Interesting question - but i asked you a very specific question -- can you answer yes or no to it??

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Please clarify the real intent and substance of your question.
1. Are you asking if being lost - is a "Work of the flesh" no matter how one Honor's one's parents as a lost person?
2. Are you asking about a lost person that does not take God's name in vain - if that is a "work of the flesh"?
3. Are you asking about a saved person that chooses to honor God's commandments including not taking God's name in vain?
What exactly are you asking?

More information regarding the previous question I asked, i.e., is legal obedience a work of the flesh.
Paul states the following regarding the flesh.

Philippians 3
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh.
We put no confidence in the flesh! Yes, but what is this 'flesh', that Paul speaks of?

The sinful nature.