Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[Bob S]

honor thy father - covers all the Ten Commandments

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Pastor Bob is seeing 10 in front of commandments in 1Jn5:2-3 and of course there is not one there. It seems like SDAs have been programed to see scripture in many places differently as that is the only way they can justify their belief system.

 

[Bob S]

People who had the true Bible, worshiped the true God - but who were blindly convinced by their priests to reject God's prophets/evangelists/apostles.,

People like Saul who later became Paul and said that God forgave him because he acted out of ignorance -- as I already pointed out in my response to you on the thread about liking Seventh-day Adventists.

Phil 3
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

1 Tim 1
12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief

And when Paul became a true believer he wrote verses like Gal 3:17-19 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. 19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

2Cor3:7-11
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Notice Paul write about the law in the past tense. It was glorious, but now it is now replaced by what is more glorious and is, if one accepts the gift, living in our hearts, and that which is living in our hearts, according to Paul, is the Holy Spirit not the ministry that brought death.

The 10 commandments contained the Sabbath command which was a time period weekly. We have the invitation to rest eternally in Jesus that means every nano second.

 

[stuart lawrence]

People who had the true Bible, worshiped the true God - but who were blindly convinced by their priests to reject God's prophets/evangelists/apostles.,

People like Saul who later became Paul and said that God forgave him because he acted out of ignorance -- as I already pointed out in my response to you on the thread about liking Seventh-day Adventists.

Phil 3
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

1 Tim 1
12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief

Did the Pharisees worship the true God. Jesus said they did not even know him, though they had the then scriptures.m
I see no point in continuing this Bob.
I believe the law on stone that got transferred to the heart and mind of the believer, must bring awareness to the believer of what that law is. You obviously disagree. What more us there to be said?

 

[BobRyan]

Did the Pharisees worship the true God. Jesus said they did not even know him, though they had the then scriptures.

And did "They" claim "they were in error??

I think we both know they did not.

Christ was right in John 16.

Christ points out.

John 16 - two key statements.

1. vs 1 “These things I have spoken to you so that you may be kept from stumbling. 2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

2. vs 12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

Then of course James 4
16 But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil. 17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Romans 2
17 But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.

They did not view themselves as law-breakers - yet... they were.



All of which argue against the "I always know when I am wrong" type of solution to that problem

People who had the true Bible, worshiped the true God - but who were blindly convinced by their priests to reject God's prophets/evangelists/apostles.,

People like Saul who later became Paul and said that God forgave him because he acted out of ignorance -- as I already pointed out in my response to you on the thread about liking Seventh-day Adventists.

Phil 3
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

1 Tim 1
12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief

Now back to the topic of this thread -- Jesus was in perfect Harmony with Scripture, the Word of God - the Father and the Father's Commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

And when Paul became a true believer he wrote verses like Gal 3:17-19 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God .

That is true.

The Gospel is in complete harmony with the Commandments of God - the LAW of God -- in fact under the Gospel 'The LAW of God is written on the heart and mind".

The LAW does not replace the Gospel - nor does the Gospel delete the LAW Romans 3:31.

The result is that it is "Still" a sin to "take God's name in vain" -- even for Christians.

AND -- for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

 

[Bob S]

That is true.

The Gospel is in complete harmony with the Commandments of God - the LAW of God -- in fact under the Gospel 'The LAW of God is written on the heart and mind".

Once again pastor you have tried to derail my post. You did that by taking the verses I wrote and only used a portion that you planned would stop the truth. It is so obvious that a child could figure your attempt.

The truth of my post is that the law (Torah) which of course included the Sabbath command ended with Christ as per the Apostle Paul.

Then of course you would not comment on the last part of my post because it makes your belief system fall apart.

The LAW does not replace the Gospel - nor does the Gospel delete the LAW Romans 3:31.

If this is true why do you avoid answering the posts that directly address the issue instead of taking a thought in Romans out of context>

The result is that it is "Still" a sin to "take God's name in vain" -- even for Christians.

Taking the name of God in vein is part of the Law of Love which is what is written on the hearts of man. Morality has been and is forever.

AND -- for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

and the remainder of the verse, which you will never quote, is that after the gathering we will go out and walk among the dead bodies while the worms are busy eating them. What a joyful day that will be. And by the way Isaiah in the previous chapter writing about the same time, men will live to be over 100 years and babies will not die as infants. Is that the Heaven we are told about and believe.
Is 65:17
“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth. same as the account in Is66
The former things will not be remembered, (but in Is 66:24 we find that we are indeed reminded of our immoral past)
nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.


20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed. and here I thought we would live eternally.
21 They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
23 They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune; Marriage and Sex in Heaven?
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.
24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord.

 

[BobRyan]

Once again pastor you have tried to derail my post.

Just not in real life.

In real life you and I both know I am not a pastor and I cannot derail your post - because I cannot edit it in any.

All the "derailing" ability is in your hands on this one - because this is "my thread" - and the subject is about the Bible fact that Christ was in perfect harmony with the Father.

Another point we both know full well.

The truth of my post is that the law (Torah) which of course included the Sabbath command ended with Christ as per the Apostle Paul.

That is speculation.

Taking the name of God in vein is part of the Law of Love which is what is written on the hearts of man.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6
1 John 5:2-3 we show LOVE for God by KEEPING His commandments -- instead of downsizing and breaking them.

And Christ made the statement that His work was to strongly AFFIRM rather then deny/delete/replace the Word of God - scripture, the Commandments of God. -- as we saw in the OP


The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Bob S]

Just not in real life.

In real life you and I both know I am not a pastor

I apologize for posting that you are a pastor. I saw an avatar just like the one you use and Pastor Bob Ryan next to it and that pastor was talking about the SDA Church. What a coincidence or maybe you once was and are now doing something else, but how would I know if you were the Pastor Bob in the other forum that you have quit? You said I should know. Why would you write that?

and I cannot derail your post - because I cannot edit it in any.

Oh so innocent. Thank goodness you cannot edit it.

That is speculation.

You call the writings of Paul on the subject of the Torah speculation? Paul is really a thorn in your side is it not Bob.

"If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

According to Jn 15:If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love tells us there is a difference between the commands Jesus has for us compared to the commands Jesus was required to observe as an Israelite. We know your agenda is to try to twist scripture to fit the SDA agenda. Problem is you are not dealing with posters that have no background in the Bible. Yep, I did at one time fall for the same "stuff" you use to lure the unsuspecting, now I am using the knowledge the Holy spirit has given me to refute people like you.

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6

Yes, that was referring to the Israelites and them only.

1 John 5:2-3 we show LOVE for God by KEEPING His commandments -- instead of downsizing and breaking them.

1jn3:21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Thank you Lord for giving us the true meaning of 1Jn 5:2-3. If we didn't have John's true meaning in 1Jn3:23 we would maybe fall for Bob's verses taken out of context.

And Christ made the statement that His work was to strongly AFFIRM rather then deny/delete/replace the Word of God - scripture, the Commandments of God. -- as we saw in the OP

Jesus commands are not opposed to the Father's. No one has ever stated that remark that I know. The commands for the Israelites were specifically for them Jesus came and gave all mankind a different and better covenant. Moral issues concerning how we treat God, ourselves and others have and always will be the same as the ones He instilled into the hearts of Adam and Eve and then to every child born into His Kingdom.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Bob.

You made the following statements.

People like Saul who later became Paul and said that God forgave him because he acted out of ignorance -- as I already pointed out in my response to you on the thread about liking Seventh-day Adventists.

Phil 3
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

May I ask how you read the verses that you quoted, from Paul's letter to the Philippians?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Dear Bob Ryan,

You have restricted the choices to only some impossible ones.

Carefully -- clearly for ulterior reason -- you leave out the only choice possible.

So it's win-win for only Bob Ryan and SDA.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Pastor Bob is seeing 10 in front of commandments in 1Jn5:2-3 and of course there is not one there. It seems like SDAs have been programed to see scripture in many places differently as that is the only way they can justify their belief system.

Your <<belief system>> seems to be focussed solely on getting the Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD once for all, annihilated.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ,

15For thus saith The High and Lofty One that inhabiteth eternity,

15Τάδε λέγει κύριος ὁ ὕψιστος ὁ ἐν ὑψηλοῖς κατοικῶν τὸν αἰῶνα,

whose Name is The Most Holy Place,

ἅγιος ἐν ἁγίοις ὄνομα αὐτῷ,

The Lord Most High and Holy being rested up again,

κύριος ὕψιστος ἐν ἁγίοις ἀναπαυόμενος

... in the New Testament Scriptures for "the last days God spoke by the Son concerning the Seventh Day, thus: And God the day The Seventh Day from all his works RESTED ... when He RAISED Christ from the dead and RESTED HIM UP again at his own Right Hand HIS MAJESTY IN HEAVENLY PLACES!"

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Moral issues concerning how we treat God, ourselves and others have and always will be the same as the ones He instilled into the hearts of Adam and Eve and then to every child born into His Kingdom.

Halleluiah!

Now hear the Word of God, all you children born again into the Kingdom God,

Exodus 31:13c “... you”, whom “the LORD doth sanctify, may know … 15 In the Seventh Day is the to the LORD Holy Sabbath Day-of-rest … 16b Observe the Sabbath an everlasting --‘olam’-- covenant : a covenant from the beginning of the world --‘olam’-- : 17 a covenant sign forever --‘olam’-- between Me and the children of Israel.” (“The children of Israel” are none other than “the seed” or children of Adam and Eve “the mother of all flesh”.) “For since the beginning of the world --‘olam’-- man disobeyed, heard not (God’s Voice), nor saw what God made or prepared for him.” “The Sabbath was made or prepared for man!”, said the Voice of God, The Word, Jesus, Lord of the Sabbath. "God made every day beautiful in its own." Isaiah 64:4 Ecclesiastes 3:11 Mark 2:27."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The commands for the Israelites were specifically for them Jesus came and gave all mankind a different and better covenant.

Untrue. Again,

hear the Word of God, all you children born again into the Kingdom God,

Exodus 31:13c “... you”, whom “the LORD doth sanctify, may know … 15 In the Seventh Day is the to the LORD Holy Sabbath Day-of-rest … 16b Observe the Sabbath an everlasting --‘olam’-- covenant : a covenant from the beginning of the world --‘olam’-- : 17 a covenant sign forever --‘olam’-- between Me and the children of Israel.” (“The children of Israel” are none other than “the seed” or children of Adam and Eve “the mother of all flesh”.) “For since the beginning of the world --‘olam’-- man disobeyed, heard not (God’s Voice), nor saw what God made or prepared for him.” “The Sabbath was made or prepared for man!”, said the Voice of God, The Word, Jesus, Lord of the Sabbath. "God made every day beautiful in its own." Isaiah 64:4 Ecclesiastes 3:11 Mark 2:27.

It is the SAME JESUS who specifically for the children of Israel the children of Adam AT 'THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD-OLAM Covenant' -- came and gave all mankind God's UNCHANGEABLE covenant, The Better, The Eternal and The eternally NEW and "EVERLASTING-OLAM Covenant" the Covenant of God's grace in Jesus Christ tomorrow, today and YESTERDAY FOREVER-OLAM the SAME".

Before you try change or annihilate the Seventh Day Sabbath-OF-THE-LORD-GOD, you will have to first change unto yourself, your Lord and Saviour and Sanctifier Three-in-One: GOD: The EVERLASTING-OLAM-Covenant GOD!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The difficulty for Bob Ryan and the SDA is to maintain that the Law demands Sabbath keeping while rejecting that Christ resurrected from the dead on it.

The difficulty for the Sundaydarians, Sabbatharians and Sundaydarians alike, is to show why and how Christ resurrected from the dead on Sunday so that it became the Lord's Day; and for the antinomians, Sabbatharians and Sundaydarians alike, to show why and how Christ resurrected from the dead on Sunday but it didn't become the Lord's Day.

 

[BobRyan]

Once you obtain the mind of Christ, the sins of the flesh no longer have any power to confuse your thoughts from Christ. This is the spiritual rebirth that's necessary to obey the Law of God. Never again will you worship another god before the Father. You will never steal, lie, cheat or commit adultery or take the Lord's name in vain. In fact, it's impossible to not obey the commandments of our Father in heaven.

to put that in terms of the bible we have Romans 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Christ in complete harmony with God the Father rather than opposing/deleting/warring against the commandments of God.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

You made the following statements.

May I ask how you read the verses that you quoted, from Paul's letter to the Philippians?

"How I read it"??

Romans 2 Paul affirms that the Jews (spiritual Jews) are not those that are Jews outwardly -- but rather inwardly. In Phil 3 the same point made again.

Paul also affirms the point that he did not know that he was doing wrong at the time before he became a Christin - he thought that persecuting the "sect of Judaism" that was called 'the Way' and later "Christian" was the path God wanted him to choose.

 

[BobRyan]

Did the Pharisees worship the true God.

The saved ones did - the lost ones were lost.

Just as John the baptizer's father - a priest.... worshiped the true God while some other priests were lost.

 

[BobRyan]

The difficulty for Bob Ryan and the SDA is to maintain that the Law demands Sabbath keeping while rejecting that Christ resurrected from the dead on it.

The difficulty for the Sundaydarians, Sabbatharians and Sundaydarians alike, is to show why and how Christ resurrected from the dead on Sunday so that it became the Lord's Day; and for the antinomians, Sabbatharians and Sundaydarians alike, to show why and how Christ resurrected from the dead on Sunday but it didn't become the Lord's Day.

so then in your view - all Christianity is in error? I think that may be another thread/topic. (Saturday resurrection?)

 

[BobRyan]

I apologize for posting that you are a pastor. I saw an avatar just like the one you use and Pastor Bob Ryan next to it and that pastor was talking about the SDA Church. What a coincidence

I have no idea who that is ... but I do know this - being a software enigneer does not qualify one to be called "pastor"

or maybe you once was and are now doing something else, but how would I know if you were the Pastor Bob in the other forum that you have quit? You said I should know. Why would you write that?

1. Because I have told you before that I am not a pastor.
2. I don't know what "other forum" you speak about that I have quit. Is it the baptist discussion board?

In any case I have never gone by the name/title/claim "Pastor Bob Ryan" on any board ... in all of time.