Jesus as Michael

[ViaCrucis]

Really? Can you show me from church history what the 2300 day prophesy of Daniel represents? How about the 1290 or the 1260? This was not spoken of or revealed to men until the time of the end began in 1798 and knowledge began to increase and the book of Daniel was unsealed. You neglect to recognize that progressive truth was given by God over the last 2000 years.

So your argument that it is true is that it is a recent innovation?

Scripture tells me to hold fast to the traditions which were received from the Apostles and not to believe false teachers, self-proclaimed prophets, and others who would come and tickle the ear of the faithful.

So why would I abandon the faith once and for all delivered to the saints to follow after your false prophet?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[miknik5]

Then there is no need for the craftsmen?

I hope you meant the destruction of the temple?

I'm not God so I don't read minds.

The temple was finally destroyed by Titus in the year 60 EC or AD.

The temple was used for blood sacrifices that ended when the last goat was killed that year.

But the "Lamb of YHVH" was really the true last sacrifice.

Then, DO WE NEED MORE TEMPLES?

Rev. 21:22
"And I saw NO TEMPLE therein: for YHVH God Allmighty and the Lamb are the temple of it."

27. "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever work ethnic abomination, or make the a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Revelation 21 is the rnding after the last battle and the cleansing of the whole earth

I am still waiting for your response regarding "another temple" and whether you believe that (regsrdless that there SHOULD NOT BE "another temple" built) in the last days "another temple" will be rebuilt

 

[DingDing]

Not doing a promotion of only one... I am giving an understanding of the "archangel" aspect so you can know more of the attributes of our Lord.

Not JW btw... see my avatar.

Well, if I remember correctly, the jw's believe and teach that Jesus is Michael and Michael is Jesus. (And by the way, I saw nothing in your opening two posts which made any connection between the two.)

And as far as what your avatar says, some people are not truthful, and since I don't know you, I don't know you. And jw's also have a teaching called "justified lying", so a jw can come here and parade around as someone or something other than what they truly are. So, again, since I don't know you, I don't know you; but from what I read in your opening post, the subject is in line with jw teaching.

 

[amadeois]

@miknik5

Did you understand my post #78?

 

[miknik5]

@miknik5

Did you understand my post #78?

With regards to the "temple" being built?
Or with regards to that there is NO TEMPLE at the end of all these things?

Because, as you know HE is sovereign over all things created...
Correct?

 

[miknik5]

Do you understand that not all are in "CHRIST" therefore they do not understand all that is understood by those who are in "CHRIST"?

Not that those quotes are meaning something more than CHRIST...but CHRIST also translates to THE BODY, THE BRIDE, HIS CHURCH, THE HOUSE, THE TEMPLE...


But again, not all believe, so in the last days, yes indeed "another temple" (not needed) will be rebuilt...and along with that earthly temporal rebuilt temple, the reinstatement of animal sacrifices for sin and guilt offerings...

That is THE ABOMINATION already...

Yes, I understand clearly and perfectly...

But I also understand that the craftsmen will go out and mark the "inner courts" and separate the inner courts from the "outer courts"...

Because GOD isn't confused and HE will call out from "her" HIS PEOPLE...

 

[Alithis]

I have had discussions on this forum concerning the Biblical evidence that Jesus is also Michael the Arch Angel. Some have contended with me on this stating that Jesus is not a created "angel". I would wholeheartedly agree but they seem to miss the verses in the Bible that clearly do show that Jesus is referred to as an angel (messenger) in the Bible.... lets look at some.

The word aggelos (G32)is used in the NT to refer to messengers from God... consider the following.

Act 7:30
And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel G32 of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.

Was it not Christ in that burning bush? If it had been just a created angel then the place where Moses was standing would not have been Holy ground.

Act 7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel G32 which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Again we see that Jesus was referred to as an angel that appeared to Moses on Sinai.

Rev 8:3-4
And another angel G32 came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's G32 hand.

We know that Jesus is our High Priest that is ministering before the throne of God in our behalf and not the work of a created being.

Rev 10:1
And I saw another mighty angel G32 come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

The attributes here described are only possessed by Christ... it was Jesus that was leading the church in the wilderness by a pillar of cloud by day and pillars of fire by night. The rainbow is only connected with the throne of God and not any created being. And it is only Jesus that is described in scripture as having the face as it were the sun. Matthew 17:2

i fnd it interesting that the Jehovah witness cult ..which supposes the archangel Michael to also be Jesus
came out of the Adventist movement of one form or another .
and so the same error is still present .

But it remains an absolute error and a lie
to even suggest they are one and the same .
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Michael is an angel whether one thinks he is created or not. And Hebrews reads that an angel will never be called a son. They do not have the likeness, the traits the ability to be sons of God individually. Like a pet cat or lion, they are never sons.

Michael is a name meaning, "Who is like God?" Or maybe "Who is like God." This denotes a role lesser than a son, as a servant. He discerns. He is not God. He is not equal to God as in Philippians 2.

Michael cannot fill the universe with his presence, like Jesus glorified. From Hebrews. Michael cannot come into the heart of a person or all the people who received Christ from the first century until now.

Jesus overcame all the power of death and sin, every unclean spirit and fallen angel. Now by extending his presence from Heaven we can receive Him and be Christian. We have salvation from sin, death and Hell. But Michael cannot give this to us. He cannot come into our hearts and he could not overcome fallen Lucifer in death, he could not overcome all the dark angels at once, and he could not rise from the grips of death on his own strength, like Jesus said He would in John 2. Michael helps a lot, but cannot save.

Jesus is Emmanuel who is always near us by supernatural presence.
Jesus is not Michael but the Holy One of God. As in the Gospel, and he is never called Michael. Also He is called I AM.
Jesus name means I AM THAT I AM Saviour.
Jesus is Alpha and Omega, Father of eternity. From Revelation and Isaiah. So He is author and acts from outside time and holds it in order. He is it's beginning and end. He is above time as in His name, I AM THAT I AM, or YHWH. He actually is Jehova. Jesus self existent. I AM not I WILL BE or I WAS, not inside linear time.
Jesus the radiance of the Father is misunderstood because we live in time. One from the other is a linear concept. But both are self existent, with no point of origin.
He sits at the right hand of the Father as equal King. Not prince only.
Jesus is love. Michael is full of love, and can find, who is like love.

The Holy Spirit is love and His presence from outside space and time, fills the universe and can pour into our spirits and warm us with the same love. They are one essence. God is Spirit, Truth. He is also a person, not just a force or power. With His own mind, will and emotions. Michael relies on the Holy Spirit for food and strength...

 

[Galilee63]

Jesus, God and The Holy Spirit are within every one of His/God's Angels and Archangels - Archangel Raphael, Archangel Uriel, and of course "Archangel Michael" yet there is only one "Son of Man", one God, one Blessed Holy Trinity, one "only Begotten Son", one "Favoured Son", our Lord Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour.

Archangel Gabriel is within God - Jesus, God and The Holy Spirit enfolded in His Love, Truth and Goodness including Archangel Michael.

 

[Galilee63]

Pray to Jesus in trust, God and The Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary for God's Holy Discernment and all, in God's Holy Will, will be shown to you!

Say "Jesus, I trust in You" as many times daily as possible with "O Blood and Water which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus, as a Fount of Mercy for us, I trust in You" and in God's Holy Will, you will be shown everything of which you query or ask if compatible in Jesus'Holy Will.

Jesus descended to earth born of the Virgin Mary - Jesus has been with God and The Holy Spirit from the very beginning laying the Foundations of His Earth. Then Jesus with God and The Holy Spirit brought Jesus down to Earth to suffer for us, in order, to be given "the opportunity" to receive Jesus' Mercy now and at the hour of death through the Holy Conditions of Repentance of sins in remorse from hearts open to Jesus, just as God our Creator said "My Messiah is forthcoming with His Mercy" and "Repent sins". God always requested and requests repentance of sins. Jesus requested repentance of sins

"Repent sins and believe in The Good News".

The Man in Linen is Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour seen by the Prophets prior to Jesus descending to earth born of The Virgin Mary, our Heavenly Mother.

 

[Alithis]

Jesus, God and The Holy Spirit are within every one of His/God's Angels and Archangels - Archangel Raphael, Archangel Uriel, and of course "Archangel Michael" yet there is only one "Son of Man", one God, one Blessed Holy Trinity, one "only Begotten Son", one "Favoured Son", our Lord Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour.

Archangel Gabriel is within God - Jesus, God and The Holy Spirit enfolded in His Love, Truth and Goodness including Archangel Michael.

as usual - no scripture

 

[Alithis]

Pray to Jesus in trust, God and The Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary for God's Holy Discernment and all, in God's Holy Will, will be shown to you!

Say "Jesus, I trust in You" as many times daily as possible with "O Blood and Water which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus, as a Fount of Mercy for us, I trust in You" and in God's Holy Will, you will be shown everything of which you query or ask if compatible in Jesus'Holy Will.

Jesus descended to earth born of the Virgin Mary - Jesus has been with God and The Holy Spirit from the very beginning laying the Foundations of His Earth. Then Jesus with God and The Holy Spirit brought Jesus down to Earth to suffer for us, in order, to be given "the opportunity" to receive Jesus' Mercy now and at the hour of death through the Holy Conditions of Repentance of sins in remorse from hearts open to Jesus, just as God our Creator said "My Messiah is forthcoming with His Mercy" and "Repent sins". God always requested and requests repentance of sins. Jesus requested repentance of sins

"Repent sins and believe in The Good News".

The Man in Linen is Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour seen by the Prophets prior to Jesus descending to earth born of The Virgin Mary, our Heavenly Mother.

lies and instructions from the pit of hell .. where does the lord Jesus ever say pray to mary?when he explicitly says to pray the the father in heaven in his name . why do you make the lord out to be a liar . / and that from those who say 'we dont pray to Mary we ask her to pray for us" and then you give direct instruction to pray to your false Godess .
utter filth and devilish lies .this thread is filled with abominations and blasphemy

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

i fnd it interesting that the Jehovah witness cult ..which supposes the archangel Michael to also be Jesus
came out of the Adventist movement of one form or another .
and so the same error is still present .

But it remains an absolute error and a lie
to even suggest they are one and the same .
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?

Neither is Jesus a man raised to Diety... He is the Head of the angels, their Commander and Chief.

For clarification, the JW never came out of Adventism or even Millerism... Charles Taze Russel attended an Adventist meeting once and was inspired by what he heard but did not agree with all of it and set out to start his own movement.

To state that we are quasi JW's and can see in the Bible that Michael was Christ, would be like saying because the JW believe that Jesus is the Son of God and if you do too, then you're a JW.... I call it circular stupidity.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Neither is Jesus a man raised to Diety... He is the Head of the angels, their Commander and Chief.

For clarification, the JW never came out of Adventism or even Millerism... Charles Taze Russel attended an Adventist meeting once and was inspired by what he heard but did not agree with all of it and set out to start his own movement.

To state that we are quasi JW's and can see in the Bible that Michael was Christ, would be like saying because the JW believe that Jesus is the Son of God and if you do too, then you're a JW.... I call it circular stupidity.

As I typed in above, Jesus is at the right hand of the Father. Jesus is King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. Equal with the Father, they both command the angels, who are headed by a chief servant, Michael. Michael is like a prince. I do not recall Michael being called King.

Jesus according to the Gospel is the bread of life. Michael cannot be this, but rather the angels are strong because they have always eaten the bread of life. Michael is strong because of Jesus.

 

[miknik5]

As I typed in above, Jesus is at the right hand of the Father. Jesus is King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. Equal with the Father, they both command the angels, who are headed by a chief servant, Michael. Michael is like a prince. I do not recall Michael being called King.

Jesus according to the Gospel is the bread of life. Michael cannot be this, but rather the angels are strong because they have always eaten the bread of life. Michael is strong because of Jesus.

Why would Angels have to eat the bread of Life?
Aren't they in HIS PRESENCE?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Why would Angels have to eat the bread of Life?
Aren't they in HIS PRESENCE?

Angels by tradition eat angel edifus. The bread of life like the living water is God's presence that extends from Him and that we receive in His presence. They are precious life concepts. Water, bread, oil, fire. We can eat the bread of life and drink the living water and drink God's good wine. In the oil, is hidden power. Presence and power from God. I suppose the bread of life is the same. It implies we gain spiritual strength from it. The angels excel in strength and obedience.

In Revelation, the river of life comes from God's throne.

 

[miknik5]

Angels by tradition eat angel edifus. The bread of life like the living water is God's presence that extends from Him and that we receive in His presence. They are precious life concepts. Water, bread, oil, fire. We can eat the bread of life and drink the living water and drink God's good wine. In the oil, is hidden power. Presence and power from God. I suppose the bread of life is the same. It implies we gain spiritual strength from it. The angels excel in strength and obedience.

In Revelation, the river of life comes from God's throne.

They're in HIS PRESENCE never having been separated from HIM

 

[Alithis]

Neither is Jesus a man raised to Diety... He is the Head of the angels, their Commander and Chief.

For clarification, the JW never came out of Adventism or even Millerism... Charles Taze Russel attended an Adventist meeting once and was inspired by what he heard but did not agree with all of it and set out to start his own movement.

To state that we are quasi JW's and can see in the Bible that Michael was Christ, would be like saying because the JW believe that Jesus is the Son of God and if you do too, then you're a JW.... I call it circular stupidity.

Throwing a poorly veiled insult at me.
Wil not change the fact that the suggestion that michael ..is jesus..no matter how remolty implied.is both an error and a lie.

 

[miknik5]

Michael is not Christ

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

They're in HIS PRESENCE never having been separated from HIM

Angels leave Heaven on missions, and yet still are in His presence. In His presence they can drink the living water. They receive His presence and commissions and take messages and bring us buckets of living water and oil, and healing gifts...

The Bible mentions the "anointed cherub" and our traditions hold, this makes the anointed angels archangels. So the Holy Spirit oil is poured over these ones, in Heaven.