Jeanine Sautron.

[EastCoastRemnant]

I appreciate that this is so funny to you... hope you will realize one day what it was...

Who said I was being funny? This forum is rife with scoffers and sceptics of our beliefs... I thank God for the few brave souls that continue to defend it or else it would turn into a speculative circus in no time.

If you think you are part of the solution and not the problem with our denomination today, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Who said I was being funny? This forum is rife with scoffers and sceptics of our beliefs... I thank God for the few brave souls that continue to defend it or else it would turn into a speculative circus in no time.

If you think you are part of the solution and not the problem with our denomination today, you are sadly mistaken.

So tell me one thing, what is the proper way of conduct then...?

So if somebody were to join a denomination or faith group, then he or she is to accept everything? never ask a question? never discuss the things mentioned?

I understand you are advocating a double morality standard.

Its like critisize everything without the church but dont apply the same measuring rod within the church. Is this what you want?

 

[Stryder06]

maybe I am mistaken, but wouldnt the word 'subjective' be more appropriate in the given context?

Sho you right! Thanks for the correction because that was most certainly the word I should have used.

So you never considered the statement of the angel to be a prophecy?

Personally, no. I can't speak for anyone else though.

hmmm... that puts us into an awkward position...

would that statement be a prophecy if the angel hadnt spoken? and only egw had made that claim... and used the words I was shown instead of the Angel speaking?

Not necessarily. And believe me, I'm not trying to be funny or anything. I've just never been quick to say that everything she saw was a prophetic event. Some things take place depending on the conditions that are or are not fulfilled.

an angel is a messenger as many people on this forum have argued. so if a messenger delivers a message regarding the future wouldnt that qualify as a prophecy?

If it is unconditional. Yes. Again, some things will happen and nothing will change that. However, there are other things that may happen one way or the other based on how God's people act.

pardon me but I think this is the point where it gets confusing...

cause if we assume that the statement wasnt a prophecy, spoken by an angel... then what was it?

Just a statement. You seem to not believe that some things can be conditional. Is this correct? I would guess, that perhaps from your standpoint, the "conditional" responses seem more like excuses than plausible reasons. Am I right?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Sho you right! Thanks for the correction because that was most certainly the word I should have used.

cool

[/quote]
Personally, no. I can't speak for anyone else though.[/quote]

agreed

[/quote]
Not necessarily. And believe me, I'm not trying to be funny or anything. I've just never been quick to say that everything she saw was a prophetic event. Some things take place depending on the conditions that are or are not fulfilled. [/quote]

well, somehow I get the expression that cannot be serious here and are just playing with me...


[/quote]
If it is unconditional. Yes. Again, some things will happen and nothing will change that. However, there are other things that may happen one way or the other based on how God's people act.[/quote]

so is the 2nd coming conditional as well, and may in effect never take place?


[/quote]
Just a statement. You seem to not believe that some things can be conditional. Is this correct? I would guess, that perhaps from your standpoint, the "conditional" responses seem more like excuses than plausible reasons. Am I right?[/quote]

in regard to this statement I think it is merely a lame excuse...

maybe some things are conditional but why should this one be?

Personally I would say that its unfair to have a prophecy that is conditional without telling the people what the condition is

but lets have another look

"I was shown the company present at the Conference, Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Ellen G. White, 1Testimonies, p. 131-132. May 27, 1856


---- so she WAS SHOWN....

what does that mean?

---- so an angel spoke to her....

what does that mean?

what was the whole purpose of this so-called statement then? if its not a prophecy, neither was it fulfilled...

 

[Stryder06]

cool

Personally, no. I can't speak for anyone else though.[/quote]

agreed

well, somehow I get the expression that cannot be serious here and are just playing with me...

Sorry you feel that way.

so is the 2nd coming conditional as well, and may in effect never take place?

No. The return of Christ is in stone. When He shall return however is stated to be once the message has gone through all the world. How long will that take? I'd say as long as it takes for the people of God to get moving.

in regard to this statement I think it is merely a lame excuse...

maybe some things are conditional but why should this one be?

Why shouldn't it be? You think it's a lame excuse, but that doesn't mean that it is, and that doesn't mean that what she saw was wrong. Just saying that if you see it as "lam", I'm not exactly sure what you're looking to hear that will change your mind.

Personally I would say that its unfair to have a prophecy that is conditional without telling the people what the condition is

Again, we differ though. You see this as a prophecy. Me personally; I never saw it as such. So I guess I won't be of much help here.

but lets have another look

"I was shown the company present at the Conference, Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Ellen G. White, 1Testimonies, p. 131-132. May 27, 1856


---- so she WAS SHOWN....

what does that mean?

---- so an angel spoke to her....

what does that mean?

what was the whole purpose of this so-called statement then? if its not a prophecy, neither was it fulfilled...

Remember that Sr white also said that the Lord was to return in her day, but due to the sluggish nature of Adventists, it didn't occur. Now of course I guess that is something that you may want to debate, but again, I'm not sure what you would consider to be an "acceptable" explanation.

Personally, I believe God hasn't returned yet, because He's still waiting for His people to get it together. I believe this to have been the case for Sr White's time as well.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Personally, no. I can't speak for anyone else though.

agreed



Sorry you feel that way.


No. The return of Christ is in stone. When He shall return however is stated to be once the message has gone through all the world. How long will that take? I'd say as long as it takes for the people of God to get moving.



Why shouldn't it be? You think it's a lame excuse, but that doesn't mean that it is, and that doesn't mean that what she saw was wrong. Just saying that if you see it as "lam", I'm not exactly sure what you're looking to hear that will change your mind.



Again, we differ though. You see this as a prophecy. Me personally; I never saw it as such. So I guess I won't be of much help here.



Remember that Sr white also said that the Lord was to return in her day, but due to the sluggish nature of Adventists, it didn't occur. Now of course I guess that is something that you may want to debate, but again, I'm not sure what you would consider to be an "acceptable" explanation.

Personally, I believe God hasn't returned yet, because He's still waiting for His people to get it together. I believe this to have been the case for Sr White's time as well.[/quote]

well, my personal belief is that God knows the day of the 2nd coming... He knew all the time about it... and never cared about people getting it together... but thats my idea of how omniscient God is... you may disagree here...

Why did He send Jesus when He sent Him...?? any idea? I mean, He could have waited until the Jews were ready to receive Him, maybe it would have happened one day...

Personally I believe it was the appointed time to send and sacrifice Jesus, in a similar fashion the day of the 2nd coming is not dependent upon some peoples business but rather the Lords doing... and will... of course you might disagree with this...

 

[Stryder06]

well, my personal belief is that God knows the day of the 2nd coming... He knew all the time about it... and never cared about people getting it together... but thats my idea of how omniscient God is... you may disagree here...

I don't see why you would bring God's omniscience into the picture. Does not Christ say that the time would be cut short for the sake of the faithful? If a time is set, and nothing can influence it, why would you need to cut it short?

Why did He send Jesus when He sent Him...?? any idea? I mean, He could have waited until the Jews were ready to receive Him, maybe it would have happened one day...

It was an appointed time.

Personally I believe it was the appointed time to send and sacrifice Jesus, in a similar fashion the day of the 2nd coming is not dependent upon some peoples business but rather the Lords doing... and will... of course you might disagree with this...

I agree that it was an appointed time. But there was a prophecy stating the exact time of Christ's first advent. You can trace that. There is no given prophecy for the second coming. We are told that this message would go into all the world, and then the end will come. That scripture is the ONLY reason why I believe we can help usher in the return of Christ, sooner than later. Of course, you may disagree with this.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

In the days of Christ there were those who were blind followers of the blind teachers and they were in the majority and there were those who followed the greatest Teacher ever to walk among men and these were in the minority.

I believe the same thing is happening today. Jesus may not be walking among us in the flesh right now but He is certainly visiting His people through His Representative, the Holy Spirit, and again those led by Him will be in the minority. To follow Jesus means to be ridiculed by scoffers and sceptics and to be in antagonism to the religious authorities who resist the light sent from Heaven as given in the Testimonies. Jesus said some things to the Jews that were difficult for them to understand and for that reason many stayed away. Mrs. White did say some things to us that are difficult to understand and for that reason some are ready to criticize and cavil. But those who are led by the Spirit are students at the school of Christ and they are taught of God and who can teach like Him! They know that there are only apparent contradictions in the sacred writings. They will not throw away their birthright just because they encounter a difficult statement. The apostle Peter warned that there were difficult things to understand in the Scriptures. There is nothing new under the sun.

sky

 

[JohnMarsten]

In the days of Christ there were those who were blind followers of the blind teachers and they were in the majority and there were those who followed the greatest Teacher ever to walk among men and these were in the minority.

I believe the same thing is happening today. Jesus may not be walking among us in the flesh right now but He is certainly visiting His people through His Representative, the Holy Spirit, and again those led by Him will be in the minority. To follow Jesus means to be ridiculed by scoffers and sceptics and to be in antagonism to the religious authorities who resist the light sent from Heaven as given in the Testimonies. Jesus said some things to the Jews that were difficult for them to understand and for that reason many stayed away. Mrs. White did say some things to us that are difficult to understand and for that reason some are ready to criticize and cavil. But those who are led by the Spirit are students at the school of Christ and they are taught of God and who can teach like Him! They know that there are only apparent contradictions in the sacred writings. They will not throw away their birthright just because they encounter a difficult statement. The apostle Peter warned that there were difficult things to understand in the Scriptures. There is nothing new under the sun.

sky

Are you implying that if somebody disagrees with egw that he is throwing away his birthright...???

 

[rainbowinthesky]

My answer to you is not my opinion but the inspired record:

"There are those who cannot distinguish between the work
of God and that of man. I shall teach the truth as God gives
it to me, and I say now, If you continue to find fault,
to have a spirit of variance, you will never know the truth." 1 S.M.412.

If the hat fits, wear it. I have read your posts and I dare say
that this statement above describes you to a t.

sky

 

[rainbowinthesky]

We already know why Jesus has not yet returned. Mark 4:26-29
tells us that it is conditional on the spiritual condition of God's people.

Paraphrased by the Holy Spirit these verses are saying that,

"Christ is waiting for longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church.
When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then
He will come to claim them as His own. It is the privilege of every Christian not
only to look for but to hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:12.
Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole
world would be sown with the seed of the Gospel. Quickly the last great harvest
would be ripened, and Christ would come to gather the precious grain." C.O.L.69.

We don't need the opinions and speculations of uninspired men. We have the
Scriptures and the testimonies of the Spirit of Christ.

These statements are clear and cannot be misconstrued.

sky

 

[Stryder06]

Are you implying that if somebody disagrees with egw that he is throwing away his birthright...???

May I ask you what the recourse will be for those who disparaged the message and spoke out against Sr White, should the message we've been spreading turn out to be true?

 

[JohnMarsten]

May I ask you what the recourse will be for those who disparaged the message and spoke out against Sr White, should the message we've been spreading turn out to be true?

you tell me

 

[Stryder06]

you tell me

I asked you. If you don't have an answer than that's fine. But this is a question you should consider.

 

[JohnMarsten]

I asked you. If you don't have an answer than that's fine. But this is a question you should consider.

Honestly I dont think that speaking out against egw will have negative consequences...

You know, I met LDS a couple of times in my life, theoretically I had the chance to accept their 'truth', probably keep on believing in the same Jesus but also add Joseph SMith and the mormon agenda into my belief system...

I didnt...

Now what will happen if the LDS system turned out to be true... will I be lost...??

 

[Stryder06]

Honestly I dont think that speaking out against egw will have negative consequences...

Let's stay focused. So you honestly believe that if everything we teach including what we believe about Sr White turns out to be true, which would mean she was a Messenger of God, that talking out against her, will have no negative consequences?

Now what will happen if the LDS system turned out to be true... will I be lost...??

Red herring

 

[JohnMarsten]

Let's stay focused. So you honestly believe that if everything we teach including what we believe about Sr White turns out to be true, which would mean she was a Messenger of God, that talking out against her, will have no negative consequences?



Red herring

are you trying to scare me

look I put Jesus above egw so I should be on the safe side no matter what...

besides so what do you teach will happen to those who spoke out against her? Will they receive some extra punishment? will that nullify their faith in Jesus?

 

[David Conklin]

just out of curiosity, how did she pass the tests of a true prophet, there are so many websites with substantial evidence to the contrary....

Why are you looking at websites for the truth instead of looking at the Bible?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Why are you looking at websites for the truth instead of looking at the Bible?

Are you aware of what the subject was about or are just throwing in stuff for the sake of throwing in stuff...???

 

[Stryder06]

are you trying to scare me

look I put Jesus above egw so I should be on the safe side no matter what...

No I'm not trying to scare you. It's just a thought question. If Jesus gave EGW a message for the people, and you discard and discourage others from accepting that message, where does that put you?

besides so what do you teach will happen to those who spoke out against her? Will they receive some extra punishment? will that nullify their faith in Jesus?

Hey, it could only be coincidence that mostly every person I know who left the church, left because of some issue with EGW. Suddenly NOTHING that they believed was correct, and strangely enough, their beliefs began to fall in line with mainstream protestantism.

It's not about receiving some "extra" punishment. It's about being safe from deception.