Jeanine Sautron.

[royallastgleam]

Your GCSDA church meets all of your above criteria. Not being able to see it is a problem found in Revelation 3 regarding Laodicea, blindness. Too bad!
Jesus requires us to believe "all that the prophets have spoken." I do!
Fools don't! Skepticism is not faith and never leads to righteousness by faith!
The testimony of Jesus has the holy spirit's voice testifying always to the mind, "This is the way; walk ye in it!"
You say: "The Philadelphians will go through the Laodiceans to the end," is not found in EGW writings or in the Bible. Sorry!

 

[OntheDL]

Your GCSDA church meets all of your above criteria. Not being able to see it is a problem found in Revelation 3 regarding Laodicea, blindness. Too bad!
Jesus requires us to believe "all that the prophets have spoken." I do!
Fools don't! Skepticism is not faith and never leads to righteousness by faith!
The testimony of Jesus has the holy spirit's voice testifying always to the mind, "This is the way; walk ye in it!"
You say: "The Philadelphians will go through the Laodiceans to the end," is not found in EGW writings or in the Bible. Sorry!

If you will notice, the 6th church in Revelation 2 and 3 is the Church of Philadelphia. In Jesus' remarks about Philadelphia, he promises to keep Philadelphia through all the plagues coming upon the world in the last days. THINK! The SDA church is called Laodicea. The Philadelphia Church is promised to go through to the end! Laodicea is spewed out! Philadelphia is KEPT! THINK! Who is right? I believe the Bible!

You contradicted yourself with the last post.

 

[royallastgleam]

No, there is no contradiction in what I said.
Your post had said that Philadelphia would go THROUGH Laodicea.
That is found nowhere in the Bible or spirit of prophecy.
My point was the Bible point that Philadelphia will go through to the end, while Laodicea has been spewed out because of lukewarmness, blindness, worldliness!
There is no contradiction in that at all! It is what the Bible says. I believe what it says!

 

[OntheDL]

No, there is no contradiction in what I said.
Your post had said that Philadelphia would go THROUGH Laodicea.
That is found nowhere in the Bible or spirit of prophecy.
My point was the Bible point that Philadelphia will go through to the end, while Laodicea has been spewed out because of lukewarmness, blindness, worldliness!
There is no contradiction in that at all! It is what the Bible says. I believe what it says!

The wheat and the tares shall grow together til the very end. There is a shaking at the end. And we are in the shaking time. But the final separation will not take place until the characters of each parties are finally revealed and sealed.

Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest.

There will be a shaking of the sieve. The chaff must in time be separated from the wheat. Because iniquity abounds, the love of many waxes cold. It is the very time when the genuine will be the strongest.

The history of the rebellion of Dathan and Abiram is being repeated, and will be repeated till the close of time. Who will be on the Lord's side? Who will be deceived, and in their turn become deceivers?

The Lord is soon to come. There must be a refining, winnowing process in every church, for there are among us wicked men who do not love the truth or honor God.

We are in the shaking time, the time when everything that can be shaken will be shaken. The Lord will not excuse those who know the truth if they do not in word and deep obey His commands.

Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads--it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved--just as soon as God's people are sealed and prepared for the shaking, it will come. Indeed, it has begun already; the judgments of God are now upon the land, to give us warning, that we may know what is coming.

The days are fast approaching when there will be great perplexity and confusion. Satan, clothed in angel robes, will deceive, if possible, the very elect. There will be gods many and lords many. Every wind of doctrine will be blowing. ---Maranatha, p200

The key issue of the SDA church is that it has not been drunken with the wine of Babylon. Until the SDA church officially and expressly affirm or propagate the two false doctrines of the spurious Sabbath and the immortal soul, the SDA church are in danger of falling, but has not fallen.

Even in EGW's days, the SDA church had apostatized. The message that the church is Babylon and calls people out of the SDA church was given in her days.

- The message is not from God.

God has a church, a chosen people; and could all see as I have seen how closely Christ identifies Himself with His people, no such message would be heard as the one that denounces the church as Babylon. {TM, p20}

How is it that these pamphlets denouncing the Seventh-day Adventist Church as Babylon [SEE APPENDIX.] were scattered abroad everywhere, at the very time when that church was receiving the outpouring of the Spirit of God ? How is it that men can be so deceived as to imagine that the loud cry consists in calling the people of God out from the fellowship of a church that is enjoying a season of refreshing? Oh, may these deceived souls come into the current, and receive the blessing, and be endued with power from on high. {TM p23}

In the pamphlet published by Brother S. and his associates, he accuses the church of God of being Babylon, and would urge a separation from the church. This is a work that is neither honorable nor righteous . In compiling this work, they have used my name and writings for the support of that which I disapprove and denounce as error. The people to whom this pamphlet will come will charge the responsibility of this false position upon me, when it is utterly contrary to the teachings of my writings and the light which God has given me. I have no hesitancy in saying that those who are urging on this work are greatly deceived. {TM 36.1}

For years I have borne my testimony to the effect that when any arise claiming to have great light, and yet advocating the tearing down of that which the Lord through His human agents has been building up, they are greatly deceived, and are not working along the lines where Christ is working. Those who assert that the Seventh-day Adventist churches constitute Babylon, or any part of Babylon, might better stay at home. {TM 36.2}

When anyone arises, either among us or outside of us, who is burdened with a message which declares that the people of God are numbered with Babylon, and claims that the loud cry is a call to come out of her, you may know that he is not bearing the message of truth . Receive him not, nor bid him Godspeed; for God has not spoken by him, neither has He given a message to him, but he has run before he was sent. The message contained in the pamphlet called the Loud Cry, is a deception. Such messages will come, and it will be claimed for them that they are sent of God, but the claim will be false; for they are not filled with light, but with darkness. There will be messages of accusation against the people of God, similar to the work done by Satan in accusing God's people, and these messages will be sounding at the very time when God is saying to His people, "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee." {TM 41.1}

While the deep movings of the Spirit of God were made manifest among the people, and souls were being converted, and hard hearts broken, there were those who were listening to the suggestions of Satan, and they were inspired with zeal from beneath to go forth and proclaim that the very people receiving of the Holy Spirit, who are to receive the latter rain and the glory that is to lighten the whole earth, were Babylon. Did the Lord give these messengers their message? No, for it was not a message of truth. {TM 48.2}

The Lord has not given you a message to call the Seventh-day Adventists Babylon, and to call the people of God to come out of her . All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message. {2SM 63.2}

I do not doubt your sincerity or honesty. I have written long letters at different times to those who were accusing the church of Seventh-day Adventists of being Babylon, that they were not handling the truth. You think individuals have prejudiced my mind. If I am in this state, I am not fitted to be entrusted with the work of God. But thismatter has been brought before my mind in other cases where individuals have claimed to have messages for the Seventh-day Adventist Church, of a similar character, and the word has been given me, "Believe them not." "I have not sent them, and yet they ran." {2SM 63.3}

- Falling as it appears, the SDA church will never be a part of Babylon

Again I say, The Lord hath not spoken by any messenger who calls the church that keeps the commandments of God, Babylon. True, there are tares with the wheat; but Christ said He would send His angels to first gather the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into the garner. I know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be. Those who shall heed this false message and try to leaven others will be deceived and prepared to receive advanced delusions, and they will come to nought. {2SM 68.3}

The Lord has sent messages of warning and entreaty, messages of reproof and rebuke, and they have not been in vain. But we have never had a message that the Lord would disorganize the church. We have never had the prophecy concerning Babylon applied to the Seventh-day Adventist Church, or been informed that the "loud cry" consisted in calling God's people to come out of her; for this is not God's plan concerning Israel. {RH, October 3, 1893 par. 12}

 

[royallastgleam]

Whether you call it "Babylon" or satan's harem, or "spewed out" "Laodicea" makes no difference to me. She quit keeping the Sabbath holy many years ago! When I was an elder in the Lincoln City SDA Church, one of the elders there (a doctor) was a believer in the immortality of the soul. I have not asked the other 10,000,000 members about their beliefs in the immortality of the soul, neither have I asked them why many of them eat in restaurants on Sabbath, but I do know that some do those things.
A church is not an organization. It is individual members who love God and keep his commandments by faith in the word of God through the grace of inspiration from the holy spirit, living by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. If you look at the little icons beside this box, you see one of them crossing herself (as a Catholic). Another has a hat with a cross on it (as a Catholic priest). I would hope that YOU are not Babylon Catholic Babylon or a son or daughter of Babylon Catholic Babylon, and I would hope that this internet site is not Babylon Catholic Babylon, but there is NOTHING her indicating that it is not Babylon Catholic Babylon!

 

[royallastgleam]

OntheDL:
Thanks for the quotes. I have read them many times, and I believe each and every one of them. But I see that the Great Controversy says that Jesus will always do the same thing in every situation: When a church proves itself unfaithful, then he does like he has always done, and spews it out, and raises up a new group of people who will prove themselves faithful (obedient to his word).
The SDA hymnals are FULL of apostate protestantism's errors, and the SDAs sing those apostate lies every Sabbath, thereby propagating lie after lie after lie! Why do they do it? Because they have adopted the "once saved always saved" heresy of apostate protestants. In other words, they no longer believe Jesus' gospel message of "repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand," and "God now requires everyone everywhere to repent." But like the apostate protestants, they believe that a profession of faith is sufficient for salvation. It is NOT!
Singing LIES is NOT worshiping God! Church is a place to go to "worship God," not a place to worship the father of lies!

 

[mmksparbud]

The bible says that Laodicians will be spewed out of His mouth.

However, Rev 3:18--I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich: and white raiment , that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear: and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:be zealous therefore, and repent."

He loves the Laodicians, that's why he is rebuking them, so that they can repent. It doesn't say to leave the church, He says to repent.


I've never heard of Jeanine Sautron.
We are to test the spirits to see if they are from God. Not follow everybody who says they've gotten a message from God--there have been countless people who have claimed that, only to be found to be a false prophet--unfortunatly, sometimes they are not found out until some tragedy occurs. By their fruits--it can take a while for fruit to develop. But the bible is pretty explicit about not going anywhere where somebody says Christ will be.

 

[mmksparbud]

there you go Stryder, like so many times I highly doubt that it will have an impact on you...

many apologists come up with the excuse that this prophecy was indeed conditional, the condition was Jesus' return, which has happened yet, and so the rest of the prophecy couldnt be fulfilled either... yeah man!




"I was shown the company present at the Conference, Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Ellen G. White, 1Testimonies, p. 131-132. May 27, 1856

There is no one quite like this John Marsten to derail a thread so that he can continue his ongoing attacks on EGW---but we do continue to let him.
And I will say one thing---

Matt 24:34---"Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled."

 

[UPHOLDER OF GOOD]

RESPECTFUL REPLY:
I would like to point out to all parties involved in this discussion that these spirit of prophecy quotes were given at the time that various groups arose in the SDA church at the time of Jones and Wagoner. These groups were preaching that the church was Babylon. At that time Jesus had never stated that the church was Babylon. The groups that split formed some of the SDA reform churches of today. The SDA church was to go on to fulfill her mission in the world in the work of the third angel.

The statement that the church would never become Babylon and would never fall is correct. That can be said of the Jewish church as well. As long as you have one member in the entire church that worships God in spirit and truth, is truly converted and has an intimate relationship with Jesus and keeps the commandments of God by the renewing grace of the holy spirit, that member is not Babylon. If the entire church becomes carnal and defiled with worldly idols but that one member remains faithful, that one member is considered God's true church and not the denomination. "Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the LORD of hosts is his name: "If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever." (Jer 31:35-36) This fixed order has not departed from before anyone of us so we know that God has his people among the Jews of Israel. Because of this we know that although most Christians consider the Jews in their own self righteousness, God does not consider it so. The majority of the Jews will not be saved for not all Israel is Israel. Just like the majority of the Adventist will not be saved, yet not all Adventist are in apostasy. The church as a whole can become Babylon. Any church organization can become Babylon when most of its members live in disobedience to God's commandments but the true Adventist are not the Adventist that are registered in the books of the church but those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Those will never become Babylon and its those that God considers as his church and not the organization. All Israel is not Israel, all Adventist are not Adventist, all remnants are not remnants. Thus my point is that when E.G. White made this reference that the church would never become Babylon and fall she was one hundred percent correct. The question is, who is the church she was referring of? The organization or the faithful members within the organization? The Jewish church as a whole became Babylon and crucified her Lord, yet a remnant was plucked out. Did the Jewish church fall? No.Why not? Because the real Jewish church was the remnant of the Jews but the Jewish Church as a whole apostatized. It was made up of those few faithful souls that followed the light they had received, while the rest went into darkness. When the majority of the Jewish nation apostatized in the time of Elijah the prophet, God said that he had reserved unto himself 7,000 who had not bowed the knee to Baal. Who were the true church? The 7,000 faithful. The same in the time of the early churches. "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (Rom 11:2-7). The rest were blinded. The Adventist Church is no different than any other church in time. Every church which God has had there has been some faithful and some unfaithful. The majority has never been on the faithful side. Sardis was told "thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. (Rev 3:4) The church of Ephesus was told "nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. (Rev 2:4-5) The candlestick can definitely be removed. "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Matt 23:38 The scriptures plainly indicate that the holy spirit can be removed from an entire organization or religious body who does not walk in the light that it was given. It was removed from the majority of the Jewish church organization. "Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus... (John 12:35-36) God is no respecter of persons or churches. All his churches throughout history have nearly fallen completely but in each one there were always a few light bearers that maintain their loyalty to God. Regarless of the denominational name or church name, the church was always the faithful within the church and not the church as a whole. Jesus says of the church that lives right at the end of time, " Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? (Luke 18:8) This statement would not be given if a large number of believers from the main denominational churches were considered to be God's faithful children. We know from this statement that at the end there will be few on the earth that will comprise God's true children in the world. Few Adventist, few Catholics, few Protestants, just few in general. God has his children in this world but they are few. "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Mat 24:21-22) This statement refers to the time at the end. Not the physical life but the salvation of the few believers is what is in jeapordy. Both of these text shows that the faith of the true faithful members will almost be gone and the only reason why God's true children are saved at the end is because he comes to get them before they apostatize and there isn't any faithful members left on the planet and no one to be saved. This is the only reason the church (faithful, obedient children) don't fall. It also shows that the true church will be comprised of few faithful people not a big denomination like the Catholic church, the Protestant churches, the Adventist church, the Mormons, etc. For him to say that true faith would almost disappear is to say that only a few are left that have true faith and even those would lose theirs if Jesus did not come. For any big denominational church to think that most of its members are going to be saved in these last days is to be in a delusion. We are living in the days were "all the world wondered after the beast. Rev 13:3 "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. (Rev 18:3) By thy sorceries were all nations deceived. (Rev 18:23) Satan, which deceiveth the whole world..(Rev 12:9) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast..(Rev 13:14) The Bible is clear that the deception will be so great that it will sweep the entire world, all the nations, all those that dwell on the earth and that faith will nearly be extinct. This is where we find the majority of the members of all the churches. Worshiping the beast! All nations have drank the wine of her fornication with pagan sun worship idolatry.

The Bible does not speak about a large church organization that will be saved at the end. Whether the Adventist church which was mentioned as being the church of Laodecia by some of those who have engaged in this discussion repented as it was told to do is shown by the texts that reveal the state of all believers at the end. Few, few, few will comprise the true church. Will they be Adventists? Yes they will. "And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation. (Isa 25:9) And unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Heb 9:28) They obviously are Adventist since they are looking for the second coming (advent) of the savior Jesus the Christ. They are not necessarily in the Adventist church. Are they Sabbath keepers? And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Rev 20:4) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience (patient continuance in well doing) of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Rev 14:9-12) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Rev 19:20) We have a contrast here between those who keep the commandments of God and don't worship his image and who even might be beheaded for their faith but who reign with Christ a thousand years and those who do not keep his commandments but worship the image of the beast and are cast alive into the lake of fire and perish. So are the few faithful commandment keeping 7th day Sabbath members who look for the second advent of their savior? Yes they are. They are few. Most of all members of all denominations will be swept away in the deceptions and trials of the last day. All the world will wonder after the beast who received its power and authority from satan.

The conclusion therefore is that the Bible clearly points out that it will be God's faithful few in the world not in the Adventist church that will make it in the end. There are far more members in most large denominations to surpass the number of 144,000. We are certain that their will be 144,000 member in the entire world that will be saved at Jesus coming. 144,000 is a small number compared to 2 billion professed Christians in this world. Are some of those Jews? Absolutely! Are some of those Adventists? Absolutely. Are some of those Remnants? Absolutely! "And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. (Joe 2:30-32)

This is the truth! The mouth of the Lord has spoken it. Are all churches Babylon at the end? Yes. All the world will wonder after the beast. All denominations will for the most part worship the beast and his image. A few in the world, in various denominations will not bow the knee to Baal. Will a separation be made between the faithful and unfaithful? The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Mat 13:41-42) God's kingdom is his church and his angels will gather out those who do iniquity in his church and separate them from the righteous. This gathering, this assembly of the righteous and the unrighteous happens before his appearing. "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. (Mat 13:38-39) Now before his coming, at the end of the world, God sends forth his angels to do this gathering. Before his coming, the angels will be busy in the field of the world to bring together all his children and separate them from the wicked in the world. "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Co 6:17-18) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her (Babylon), my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. (Rev 18:4-5)

 

[UPHOLDER OF GOOD]

Is there a message of separation given to the world at the end before the plagues are poured out? There sure is! If God's people were not in Babylon, he would not call them out of her. God's people in the end are in Babylon. They are partaking in her sins and he calls them to no longer partake of her sins.

What is the sin of Babylon that they are partaking? Every church member in every church in the world can see if his/her church is in Babylon from the following texts.

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, (Rev 18:2-9)

In Babylon there is the working of an unclean, foul spirit. This unclean (filthy, impure) foul spirit does something in Babylon. "Wherein in time past ye walked [lived] according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (Eph 2:2-3) The spirit of unclean demons in Babylon make the people in Babylon to fulfill the lust of their flesh and fulfill the desires of the flesh and of the mind. This is the lifestyle of every Babylonian church member whose is in a Babylonian church which has this unclean, foul spirit. "Children of wrath", this statement is clarified in the following text, "But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Eph 5:3-6) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience..(Col 3:5-6) Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1Co 6:9-10)

Here are clearly marked out the sins of Babylon. The sins caused by these unclean, impure, foul, demonic spirits in the world and in the churches. Wherever you see these sins you see the effects of the demons of Babylon. Is your church a cage of unclean birds? Fornication. There is probably not one big denominational church that does not have fornicators living in its mist. A fornicator is a person who engages in sexual intercourse outside marriage. We have a large number of professed Christians who have sexual relations before marriage and while they are divorced. Who live under the same roof with their partner without being married. "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. (1Co 5:11) What happens when a entire church organization accepts fornicators who professed to be Christians in their church. How can they obey this command to "not keep company with them"? Come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord, for because of these sins cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Adultery is also mentioned as one of the sins of Babylon. Adultery is widespread in all Christian denominations. Jesus said, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery." (Mar 10:11-12) Since it is God who joins a man and a woman and the scriptures says that what God has joined together let not man pull apart, what is the only permission he gives for human being to be able to divorce? "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (Mat 5:32)

How many professed Christians in all the churches including the Adventist church have divorced their first spouse on grounds other than sexual immorality or infidelity? Whoever did or counseled someone to has caused that person to commit adultery and for the sin of adultery comes the wrath of God on the children of disobedience and no adulterer will inherit the kingdom of heaven. How many people have married a divorced woman? How many are committing this Babylonian sin in their church and how many churches allow, permit this Babylonian sin. The Adventist Church does! The Protestants Churches do! The Catholic church is full of unclean spirits doing all sort of impure acts. What church is not plagued by this Babylonian sin. What does the scripture say that a person who divorces his spouse needs to do to not commit adultery?

To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife. (1Co 7:10-11) A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. (1Co 7:39) For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. (Rom 7:2-3)

These scriptures could not be any more plainer. No one is allowed to divorce his/her spouce on any grounds other than sexual infidelity. Remarriage as long as your first spouse is alive is not allowed. It is adultery if a person remarries while their first spouce which they divorced is still alive. Jesus allowed a person to divorce because of infidelity not remarried someone else. He that marries her that is divorced commits adultery! What did Jesus say to the woman at the well who had remarried seven times? Jesus said to her, "Go, call your husband, and come here." The woman answered him, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You are right in saying, 'I have no husband'; for you have had five husbands, and the one you now have is not your husband. What you have said is true." (Joh 4:16-18) Only the first spouse is considered by God to be the husband or the wife of the individual. Until the person dies a person cannot remarried without committing adultery. How many churches are full of adulterous people, how many churches are full of this sin for the which the wrath of God commeth upon the children of disobedience. The Adventist Church is certainly full of adulterers.

Homosexuality: There is no licence anywhere in scripture for churches to allow homosexuality in their mist or lesbianism. What does God say in Romans? "For this reason [they did not want to retain God in their minds] God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, ... Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (Rom 1:26-32) This cannot make it any plainer that God does not approve of homosexuality nor those who approve or encourage that behavior. That is a sin for which the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience. A church that accepts that and does not tells its members that they need to be born again and be renewed in the spirit of their minds by the grace of God through faith in the blood of Christ is accepting the sins of Babylon in its bossom. Any Christian that does not warn his/her neighbor and exhort his/her neighbor to seek the converting grace of Christ in order to overcome that sin is not loving his/her neighbor. If you know that the wrath of God is going to fall on your friend for some sin and that he/she will not inherit the kingdom of God because of it, do you think that any church organization that allows that sin to continue and accepts it in its members is preaching the love of God and loving its neighbor? If as human beings we want to enter into the kingdom of God, a kingdom that nothing impure will enter (Rev 21:27) we need to seek the grace of God to convert our hearts and minds in order to fit us to dwell in that pure and holy atmosphere. The text in Romans says that the problem here is a "debased mind". How can a person with a debased mind enter the kingdom of heaven when the scripture states the following; "Who shall ascend the hill of the LORD? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false and does not swear deceitfully. (Psa 24:3-4) No impure person will enter the kingdom of heaven. The converting power of the spirit of God must be received by the Christian to have this change occur, without it, there is not hope. Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one says the scriptures. "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (Rom 8:5-6) Carnally minded...the unclean, impure spirits in Babylon cause people to seek to fulfill the desires of the flesh and of the mind. The carnal fleshly mind, the debased mind, the impure mind, will not inherit the kingdom of God. How many people also commit the sin of self abuse. That is the desires of the flesh. If Christ lives in you, will his holy spirit lead any person to commit the lust of the flesh? Absolutely not!

So these are just a few of the Babylonian sins that are in all the churches of the world and when a church accepts these sins then they have drunk the wine of Babylon and are filled with the sins of Babylon. The church is then Babylon, for the sins in Babylon and the sins in the church members are the same, regardless of their profession. Christian profession or a profession of faith is nothing if that faith does not accept the presence of the holy spirit to renew and sanctify the character. "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Tit 1:15-16)

So is the Adventist Church and all the other churches in unity with Babylon and its sins? And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. (Rev 18:4-5)

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Mat 7:21-23)

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: (2Th 2:11-13)

Prepare to meet thy God, O Israel. (Amo 4:12)

 

[Castaway57]

Whether you call it "Babylon" or satan's harem, or "spewed out" "Laodicea" makes no difference to me. She quit keeping the Sabbath holy many years ago! When I was an elder in the Lincoln City SDA Church, one of the elders there (a doctor) was a believer in the immortality of the soul. I have not asked the other 10,000,000 members about their beliefs in the immortality of the soul, neither have I asked them why many of them eat in restaurants on Sabbath, but I do know that some do those things.

Wow. You act like one of those perfect Sabbath-keepers, keeping the Sabbath "better" than everyone else, and "believing "better" than the entire rest of the Church. Please, give us a full accounting of how you keep the Sabbath perfectly, so we can be just like you.

The church that you critisize so heavily is the one that taught me to know and love Christ. Singling out various members or groups and their "sins" won't cut it with me. If you know so much then please, tell us about Jesus.

 

[Castaway57]

Here are clearly marked out the sins of Babylon. The sins caused by these unclean, impure, foul, demonic spirits in the world and in the churches. Wherever you see these sins you see the effects of the demons of Babylon. Is your church a cage of unclean birds? Fornication. There is probably not one big denominational church that does not have fornicators living in its mist.

Prepare to meet thy God, O Israel. (Amo 4:12)

Nice list of "sins." When are you going to talk about Jesus who saves us from our sins? (John 1:29).What has been your experience with Him who can keep you from falling? Shouldn't we also have that list, to go along with this one?

 

[UPHOLDER OF GOOD]

Nice list of "sins." When are you going to talk about Jesus who saves us from our sins? (John 1:29).What has been your experience with Him who can keep you from falling? Shouldn't we also have that list, to go along with this one?

DEAR BELOVED;
I was just stating the truth about the condition which all churches find themselves in the end of times. Since Jesus will have 144,000 who will be translated in the end and since the church of Philadelphia is promised to be kept from falling when the great temptation comes upon the entire world, we know that Jesus is able to keep his children from falling. We know also that since he has stated that if he did not come no flesh shall be saved, I also know that my salvation is not due to my merits or achievements, knowledge or any merit that I have above anyone else in the world. I personally have experienced that it is solely through the mercy, love and grace of Jesus that any sinful, weak, helpless human being like myself has any hope of being born again, any hope of having any power to keep the law of God, any hope of repentance, any hope of being conformed to the image of his son. I know also that God does not clear the guilty. He will never call evil good and good evil. We are called to practice righteousness and mercy. "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? (Mic 6:8)

The blood of Jesus is made unto me justification, wisdom, power, sanctification and redemption. I know that it is solely by grace through faith in his blood that I can be saved from my sins. I know that without him I can do nothing. I cannot resist one temptation or overcome one sin without him. I have learned that it is not by might, nor by power but by his spirit. I know my heavenly father loves to help me and will never forsake me in my fight against sin, the flesh, the world and the devil."For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; (Tit 2:11-12) I JUDGE NO ONE. I know that every human being on this planet is utterly helpless to bring a clean thing out of an unclean. The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God neither indeed can be. Only God can give us that new heart, that renewal of the heart and mind which he has promised. I don't censure human weakness nor judge others who are as weak as myself. The word of God will judge all of us in that day. "Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God". (1Co 4:5) We are not to excuse sin in ourselves or in others for the spirit of God who dwells in the heart and who alone can put a love for righteousness and a hatred for iniquity will not let us be indulgent. Love does not allow it.

I am as dependent upon the grace of God to overcome sin as anyone else. I am dependent upon the daily mercy of God as any other sinner. I have tasted his power to convert and to give victory over sin. I know he is faithful and true to fulfill his word. When he says that, "it is his will to cleanse us from sin, to make us his children and to enable us to live a holy life", I know that his grace can help us to overcome. I know that their is freedom from sin by the power of Jesus the Christ. I know that when Jesus prayed for us that we be one with him as he is one with the father (in character) that God the father always listens to the prayers of his son and does send his grace to conform us to the image of his son. I know by experience that "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus can make any human being free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Rom 8:2-4)...I know that the gospel is the remedy for the sin sick soul. I know that all of God's imparted grace is bestowed as a free gift and that no human being can make himself acceptable before God by his own efforts. It is only by the grace of God's holy spirit given to us by faith only in his blood that we can have the law of God written in our minds and the power to carry it out in our lives. I know and trust only in the blood of Christ to atone for my sins and not obedience to the law of God. I know that he does impart his holy spirit. I know it is possible to overcome sin by his grace. I know God can abide in sinful flesh and condemn sin in my flesh so that I can go and sin no more. I know Moses was saved by grace, the 24 elders around his throne are just men who were made perfect by the grace of God. Sinful human beings can by grace dwell around God's throne. Gods grace is sufficient to save to the uttermost. His grace is given to those who hunger and thirst after righteousness. If we sin willfully we know that the blood of Jesus cannot cover us. We are called to wash our robes of character upon the blood of Christ. We know also that everyone that is born of God will not continue to commit willful sins. We know that anyone who is born of God overcomes the world, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes, therefore I know I must always go to him for that grace to sanctify his name before human beings and that without his grace, I will not be anything but a reprobate.

For some, the decree has gone forth..."let him that is just keep seeking justice, let him that is holy keep seeking more holiness of heart and life, let him that is filthy, let him keep defiling himself even more....For others, the door of grace still remains open that the promise might be fulfilled that all those who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled and that sin shall not have dominion over you!. It is not that Jesus is powerless to save all human beings from their sins. It is the truth that human beings have not felt their need to be conformed to his law in heart and life, therefore have not sought the grace of God's holy spirit to have that holiness which without no man shall see God. The churches are Babylon and most profess Christians are dead in their sins because they have turned the blood of Christ into lasciviousness, into stealing, into all the carnal fruits of the unrenewed mind and have let men deceive them into thinking that they can be saved while transgressing willfully the law of God. That same law that in the Christian is written in his/her heart under the new covenant. Satan has deceived the whole world with the cheap grace theory. Jesus did not lie to us when he said, " Verily, verily, I say unto you, whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free [from committing sin], ye shall be free indeed. (Joh 8:34-36) The fact that most Christians have not found the grace of God that saves from committing sin and sets a person free from their sins, that grace that converts the mind and heart so that a person can be an overcomer, does not make God a lier nor lessen the power of the gospel to save sinful human beings.

 

[mmksparbud]

The bible says that Laodicians will be spewed out of His mouth.

However, Rev 3:18--I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich: and white raiment , that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear: and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:be zealous therefore, and repent."

He loves the Laodicians, that's why he is rebuking them, so that they can repent. It doesn't say to leave the church, He says to repent.


I've never heard of Jeanine Sautron.
We are to test the spirits to see if they are from God. Not follow everybody who says they've gotten a message from God--there have been countless people who have claimed that, only to be found to be a false prophet--unfortunatly, sometimes they are not found out until some tragedy occurs. By their fruits--it can take a while for fruit to develop. But the bible is pretty explicit about not going anywhere where somebody says Christ will be.

OK---repeating my previous post to emphasize what the bible says in Rev 3:18---Apparently this is not being taken to heart. It states that God will spew out Laodicia if they do not repent. He goes on to say that whomsoever He loves he chasens for the purpose of repentance--He LOVES THE LAODICIANS AND WANTS THEM TO REPENT---again--HE DOES NOT SAY TO LEAVE THE LAODICIAN CHURCH, BUT TO REPENT--

Is this not clear enough???

 

[Castaway57]

DEAR BELOVED;
I was just stating the truth about the condition which all churches find themselves in the end of times. Since Jesus will have 144,000 who will be translated in the end and since the church of Philadelphia is promised to be kept from falling when the great temptation comes upon the entire world,

No you were not. Your "message" about the church is not supported by the Bible. Rev 3:10 is likely the text you refer to re the "great temptation" and this will come upon the entire world - upon everyone in it. The Bible doesn't say just one particular church will be "kept from falling" and if you read the descriptions of all 7 of those churches where Philadephia is listed; they collectively define today's various churches, and individuals. God doesn't give up on any of the churches; even if they give up on Him.

 

[UPHOLDER OF GOOD]

OK---repeating my previous post to emphasize what the bible says in Rev 3:18---Apparently this is not being taken to heart. It states that God will spew out Laodicia if they do not repent. He goes on to say that whomsoever He loves he chasens for the purpose of repentance--He LOVES THE LAODICIANS AND WANTS THEM TO REPENT---again--HE DOES NOT SAY TO LEAVE THE LAODICIAN CHURCH, BUT TO REPENT--

Is this not clear enough???

Yes your point is well taken. Have you also considered that at the end the Church of Philadelphia is mentioned as the church that is kept through the time of trouble. Who is this church and how does it relate to the Adventist Church? What is its relation to the destiny of the Laodicean Church? The parable of the wise and foolish virigins is a parable depicting the two classes of believers that will exists before the coming of Christ. Please just consider what is the position of the Laodicean Church during the time of trouble. Does E.G. White talk about the Laodicean Church during the time of trouble or does she speak about a remnant of this church? Who is this Church of Philadelphia that goes through if the Adventist are Laodicea? The great temptation is the Sunday law so the Church of Philadelphia is promised to go through the time of trouble. Where is Laodicea at that time? Something happened and what counsel of God does the Adventist Church have. Its been 100 years since E.G. White. The Bible says, "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. (Joel 2:28-32) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (Mal 4:5)

These scriptures indicate an outpouring of the holy spirit before the coming of Christ to get his people. Mal 4:5 had one fulfillment in John the Baptist but like much of the prophecies the great and dreadful day of the Lord indicates a double application. Just like in Joel we see the signs that were mentioned in the Great Controversy yet we know that those signs are not signs to anyone that live in the generation of Christs coming since they happened long ago and the Bible says, "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (Luke 21:25-28) So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. (Luke 21:31)

The strength of the scripture is that these signs will fortel Christs soon appearing and these signs can be "seen" by those who live in the last generation. The signs that took place in 1798 or long ago, although they fulfilled prophecy are also to be repeated at the end since the last generation is to be able to "see" this things and by them know that the time of Christ is near. Although some of these signs also took place several hundred years ago they are to be repeated in the last generations so that those people can know that the coming of Christ is near. It has a double application and so does the coming of Elijah the prophet. This would then indicate that God will visit his people in the last days through the spirit of prophesy. From the scripture we know that the gift of prophesy is to continue until the close of time and the body of Christ grows up unto a perfect man. The condition of the Adventist Church indicates that it by no means reached that status of perfection yet, therefore it would stand to reason that God would definitely revive the spirit of prophesy in the last days. How would God possibly leave his people without any light going into all the last days events?

Regarding prophesy we know that many shall come in Christ name. False prophets exist and so do true ones. The false are produced to discredit the true, therefore we are commanded, "Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1Th 5:20-21) This comand is a promise. God has pledged himself to reveal to us the truth about all things, otherwise we could not hold fast to that which is true. We are told to prove all prophecy and not just accept blindly anything. We know the rule is to the law and the testimony and the fruits. We know from I John that anyone being influenced by the spirit of God will bear the fruits of righteous living and love for God and the neighbor. For us to be able to test everything by the law and the testimony we first need to know what the law and the testimony is. All this God has pledge to give us in order for us to be able to hold fast to that which is true and dispise not prophecy. God has assured us that all prophecy that comes from him will be in harmony with the law and the testimony and so we are promised the ability to be able to discern truth from error so that we might be able to hold fast to that which is true.

There is an interesting quote regarding the spirit of prophecy in the last days at the close of the third angel's message. In Early Writtings pg. 279 it states, "I was pointed down to the time when the third angel's message was closing. The power of God had rested upon his people; they had accomplished their work and were prepared for the trying hour before them. They had received the latter rain, or refreshing form the presence of the Lord, and the living testimony had been revived. The last great warning had sounded everywhere, and it had stirred up and enraged the inhabitants of the earth who would not receive the message." Sister Whites writting are not the "living testimony" since she is not living and can't give a living testimony to the church. She was the living testimony for her time but she says that it will be revived. Since it is revived at the end and the message is not received by the world, then we know that the spirit of prophecy will be on the earth in the last days. God will have a prophet or prophetess giving the living testimony again. Since it is linked to the Third Angel's message we can expect that it would be a message that is given first to the Adventist Church and then carried to the world.

This is sufficient to show that God will send a message to the Adventist Church and that some would receive it since it goes on to be proclaimed to the world. What is the last great warning? It is the warning in reference to the mark of the beast, the image of the beast, the number of the beast, the name of the beast, the number of his name, the worship of the first beast, the worship of the second beast (lamb like beast), the warning against the four fold union between the kings of the earth, the merchants of the earth, religious leaders and rulers who will all be in corrupt harmony. 2SM 68. These are the four groups that commit fornication with Babylon. The first beast (Rome) committed fornication with pagan sun worship and her sunday customs, the lamb like beast causes the kings of the earth through its military power to worship the first beast and thus causes them to commit fornication through the sunday law. It then causes the merchants of the earth to accept her 666 economic system of bying and selling, thus bringing them into union with pagan sun worship and through the mark of the beast in the "flesh" in the right hand and forehead bring the world population to worship the beast. The banks are in league with the merchants of the earth and accept her 666 economic system of bying and selling with the mark on the hand. Not only is the mark in the hand spoken against but also the number of his name. All four things are to be resisted by God's people. It stands to reason that such an important, vital truth as the rejection of the mark and all its other components would be clearly revealed by God to his church and the world. "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. (Rev 15:2)" Notice the mark and the image are not the same. "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Rev 20:4) The "witness of Jesus" at the time of the enforcement of the mark of the beast and his image. We know that this is the same as the testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of prophecy.

Now his people are called out of this entire system and union of the economic 666 system of the lamb like beast which it uses to cause all the inhabitants of the earth to commit fornication with the first beast who committed fornication with the 666 pagan sun worship system. The sin of Babylon and the kings, and the merchants is this fornication with pagan sun worship. The merchants can't be involved without also involving the banks. The bying and selling is an economic activity that goes through the banks. Thus in order for God's people to not commit the fornication mentioned in Revelation they will have to not be part of the system of the lamb like beast. They will have to reject the sunday adoration, the mark of the beast in the hand which will enable them to buy and sell, they will be seperate from all these unions that lead to spiritual fornication with sun worship paganism. That message will enrage the world. That message has not been given by the Adventist Church. The Adventist Church has not light regarding these specific things mentioned in Revelation (number of his name, etc) so she is not able to give the message. So it would stand to reason that a living testimony from Jesus is absolutely necessary at the end in order to give that message to the world.

So the exhortation stands, Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1Th 5:20-21)

 

[Castaway57]

Have you also considered that at the end the Church of Philadelphia is mentioned as the church that is kept through the time of trouble.

This is quite untrue.

John, the Revelator, was told by God to write what he saw in a book and give it to all seven of the churches. (Rev 1:11).

It is also worth noting that The Church of Laodicea was the only one where Jesus came right out and said "I love." Jesus declared His love for the Laodicean Church. (Rev 3:19). None of the other 6 churches were addressed like this by Jesus. So that kind of nulls & voids your assertions re Philadelphia.

What you say about Philadelphia here is falsehood because the Bible says so. All 7 of these churches, no matter what kind of historical context you wish to impose upon them, all get totally equal treatment by God. To each church is given the possibility and promise of "overcoming" and it is wrong to depict them otherwise, or to single one out in favor of the others. The Bible text does not do that.

Check out the texts which show overcoming as being integral to church life in all 7 of the churches for yourself.

Overcometh

Rev 2:7 Ephesus
Rev 2:11 Smyrna
Rev 2:17 Pergamos
Rev 2:26 Thyatira
Rev 3:5 Sardis
Rev 3:12 Philadelphia
Rev 3:21 Laodicea

Why would Jesus help anyone in any of the other Churches to overcome if the Philadelphia Church was the only one that would come through? You are not making sense.

Please show us which text comes right out and says the the Church at Piladelphia is/will be the only one to make it through the time spoken of in Rev 3:10

The names of the seven churches are symbolic of the church in different periods of the Christian Era. The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time, while the symbols used reveal the condition of the church at different periods in the history of the world.{AA 585.3}

Christ is spoken of as walking in the midst of the golden candlesticks. Thus is symbolized His relation to the churches. He is in constant communication with His people. He knows their true state. He observes their order, their piety, their devotion. Although He is high priest and mediator in the sanctuary above, yet He is represented as walking up and down in the midst of His churches on the earth. With untiring wakefulness and unremitting vigilance, He watches to see whether the light of any of His sentinels is burning dim or going out. If the candlesticks were left to mere human care, the flickering flame would languish and die; but He is the true watchman in the Lord's house, the true warden of the temple courts. His continued care and sustaining grace are the source of life and light. {AA 586.1}

 

[UPHOLDER OF GOOD]

The names of the seven churches are symbolic of the church in different periods of the Christian Era. The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time, while the symbols used reveal the condition of the church at different periods in the history of the world.{AA 585.3}

Dear beloved of God;
I will answer you more fully soon. I would like for you to consider the quote that you have included in your answer in relation to your question to me. Notice it says the condition of the "church" and not churches. My point was that the time of trouble that comes to try all that are upon the earth includes the Sunday law as well as world catastrophes such as we have never had. We know the fourth commandment will be the test for all people in the world and everyone will end up on one side or the other. God has one church. The message reveals the condition of the "church" not churches at different periods in the history of the world. It does have a historical time period application. The church of God in the time of trouble, the great temptation (i.e Sunday law) is name Philadelphia. My question is have you consider the change of the church, the condition of the church from Laodicea to Philadelphia. Always keeping in mind that the church is not an organization but the individuals within the organization. The condition of Philadelphia is one and the condition of Laodicea is another. Those conditions are clearly revealed in the scriptural texts. All people in all churches will be tried by the Sunday law and at the end all overcomers will be one church with the faithful Jews. One church in the spiritual condition that Philadelphia is described to be in at the end. Please consider this point and I will address the other points more fully at another time.

 

[Castaway57]

The names of the seven churches are symbolic of the church in different periods of the Christian Era. The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time, while the symbols used reveal the condition of the church at different periods in the history of the world.{AA 585.3}

Dear beloved of God;
I will answer you more fully soon. I would like for you to consider the quote that you have included in your answer in relation to your question to me. Notice it says the condition of the "church" and not churches. My point was that the time of trouble that comes to try all that are upon the earth includes the Sunday law as well as world catastrophes such as we have never had. We know the fourth commandment will be the test for all people in the world and everyone will end up on one side or the other. God has one church. The message reveals the condition of the "church" not churches at different periods in the history of the world. It does have a historical time period application. The church of God in the time of trouble, the great temptation (i.e Sunday law) is name Philadelphia. My question is have you consider the change of the church, the condition of the church from Laodicea to Philadelphia. Always keeping in mind that the church is not an organization but the individuals within the organization. The condition of Philadelphia is one and the condition of Laodicea is another. Those conditions are clearly revealed in the scriptural texts. All people in all churches will be tried by the Sunday law and at the end all overcomers will be one church with the faithful Jews. One church in the spiritual condition that Philadelphia is described to be in at the end. Please consider this point and I will address the other points more fully at another time.

The "church" is intended by the Bible writer in a collective sense, including all of the seven churches...so make sure you include that in your "study" too.

 

[mmksparbud]

I've heard of the premise that the churches represent different era of the church--I've also heard they represent also the different stages that a believer goes through. Either way--it is God's purpose and wish that each one overcomes, repents, and stay faithful to Him. One can be in the midst of a burning hell (as Daniel's 3 friends) and if you are faithful, love God, have repented and overcome--Jesus will protect you no matter where you are. It is faithfulness to Him that counts. God says to "come out of Babylon" that we be not partakers of her sins---the point is to not be partakers of her sins, and we then shall not be partakers of her punishment.

David was the anointed king to be---yet it took 20 years before he actually ascended the throne. He had many opportunities to kill Saul, he certainly had plenty of reasons to kill him as he was a pretty sick,evil man. But he refused to harm God's anointed,he did not start an insurrection against him, and waited for God to decide when he would get the throne. It is not up to us to take the churches leadership down because we feel that they are not doing God's will--it is our job to pray for them to do the right thing, and to keep ourselves one with Christ, He will do the rest. It's called faith.