IV : You shall not Make for yourself a graven image

[christianmomof3]

By you using this verse out of context, you make ALL miracles wicked.

No, I did not say that all miracles are wicked. The verse clearly says that seeking after signs is what is wicked. I would also think that looking for or focusing on signs or miracles is not what the Lord wants from us. He wants us to pursue Christ.
I put the verse in response to the statement that someone is considered a saint because of miracles as seen here:

The Bishop I mentioned is an example -- he is recognized as a Saint because of the many miracles

Miracles may bring some to Christ, others renew their faith ...

Also the wikipedia article mentions that Orthodox look at miracles in regards to dead people's remains in order to determine their sainthood as seen here:

It is believed that one of the ways in the holiness (saintliness) of a person is revealed is through the condition of their relics (remains). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint

 

[repentant]

No, I did not say that all miracles are wicked. The verse clearly says that seeking after signs is what is wicked. I would also think that looking for or focusing on signs or miracles is not what the Lord wants from us. He wants us to pursue Christ.
I put the verse in response to the statement that someone is considered a saint because of miracles as seen here:

But in the context you tried to use that verse you did. We are not looking for miracles, that is why you used this quote out of context. When the miracle with St. Nektarios happened, it just happened. You act like they were looking for this to happen. Do you understand? God did this to show that St. Nektarios was a Saint, and was glorified by God. The miracle was not asked for. Actually it is the Protestants who look for miracles, with their "healing" sermons or whatever they are..

Also the wikipedia article mentions that Orthodox look at miracles in regards to dead people's remains in order to determine their sainthood as seen here:

Yes that is one sign that they have been glorified by God, incorruptness. St. Nektarios for example was dug up after 20 years, and his body still looked like he had just died. Yet another sign from God that He Glorified Him.

 

[repentant]

It is called discernment. So called psychics are the devil's imitation of this.
Why would God inform me? To take precautions (as in the fire) or pray for the person I sensed was in danger(I did).
You seem to be saying this gift of God is from demons.
Thats not a good thing to call God's works demonic.

HD, discernmemnt is not receiving so called foreknowledge, but is being able to tell what is from God and what is from Satan. You do not question your "dreams" or "visions" and assume they are from God, this is not discernment..

 

[sunlover1]

It is called discernment. So called psychics are the devil's imitation of this.
Why would God inform me? To take precautions (as in the fire) or pray for the person I sensed was in danger(I did).
You seem to be saying this gift of God is from demons.
Thats not a good thing to call God's works demonic.

Sounds like Word of Knowledge.
I have had that happen also, several
times and it was so I could pray (I'm
guessing)
BTW, it's not from demons, it's from God.

BIG difference...

Here, this shows it:

1 Corinthians 12:7-12
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

sunlover

 

[TheDivaAngel]

HD, discernmemnt is not receiving so called foreknowledge, but is being able to tell what is from God and what is from Satan. You do not question your "dreams" or "visions" and assume they are from God, this is not discernment..

Yes, you are right actually. The gift of Knowledge. I don't walk in that too much...mine is more discernment. Ha, before I knew it was a gift with a name, I used to call it my 'sixth sense'! OOPS! I have had this all my life. Weird, but true.

 

[Thekla]

Also the wikipedia article mentions that Orthodox look at miracles in regards to dead people's remains in order to determine their sainthood as seen here:

Incorrupt remains are not alone the "criteria"

In Greece, due to lack of space, remains are buried until they have decomposed, then the bones are stored elsewhere. So there is opportunity to discover which remains are incorrupt.

Relics have long been part of the Church -- during the "Catacombs Period, for example.

 

[icxn]

It is called discernment. So called psychics are the devil's imitation of this.
Why would God inform me? To take precautions (as in the fire) or pray for the person I sensed was in danger(I did).
You seem to be saying this gift of God is from demons.
Thats not a good thing to call God's works demonic.

If it's from God then there's nothing to worry about but the demons can "transform" themselves in similar manner, be careful.

 

[Thekla]

No, I did not say that all miracles are wicked. The verse clearly says that seeking after signs is what is wicked. I would also think that looking for or focusing on signs or miracles is not what the Lord wants from us. He wants us to pursue Christ.
I put the verse in response to the statement that someone is considered a saint because of miracles as seen here:

I'm someone

... and I likely did a bad job of explaining.

The miracles just happen.

Of course we do not "threaten" and say we need proof before we believe. EO is also quite clear that we give thanks for everything, even things that do not "go the way we want" in life.

And each case is different, in recognizing Saints.

It is Christ we honor in the Saints, the promise of the Incarnation and the entirety of God's salvific plan for mankind.

 

[christianmomof3]

Actually it is the Protestants who look for miracles, with their "healing" sermons or whatever they are..

That would be the Charismatics or Pentecostals perhaps - not all Protestants are into the whole healing and miracle thing - and you are correct -if they are focusing on healing or miracles or anything other than Christ then that is not what the Lord wants. We should be those who seek Christ, follow Christ, love Christ, pursue Christ and live Christ.

I'm someone

... and I likely did a bad job of explaining.

The miracles just happen.

Of course we do not "threaten" and say we need proof before we believe. EO is also quite clear that we give thanks for everything, even things that do not "go the way we want" in life.

And each case is different, in recognizing Saints.

It is Christ we honor in the Saints, the promise of the Incarnation and the entirety of God's salvific plan for mankind.

All regenerated Christians are saints. We don't need to perform miracles or have miraculous things to happen to our dead bodies to prove it. Christ in us the hope of glory is the greatest miracle of all.

 

[Thekla]

All regenerated Christians are saints. We don't need to perform miracles or have miraculous things to happen to our dead bodies to prove it. Christ in us the hope of glory is the greatest miracle of all.

This, maybe will help to clarify ...
miracles are not "proof", they are fruit. The consequence of the outpouring of Grace, the fruit of the Incarnation, God's love for us.

To repeat my example; there are some people in whom love for Christ is so great, that just "standing next to them", one stands in awe of the love that is of Christ. These people make it "easy" to walk in Christ's way. And these people often say nothing

The Christian does not seek to perform miracles; the Saints just love Christ so completely, they are so filled with the Holy Spirit, that they produce fruit that Christ spoke of ... their lives in Christ are the Gospel, lived.

Probably did a bad job, again - sorry

 

[repentant]

No Thekla you do a very good job. It is just that people need to experience actual Holy people to understand. I remember when I first met Geronda Ephraim. I was just in awe of him, and you can feel the Grace of God coming out of him. It permiates from him.

 

[Theophorus]

I don't 'follow' men, but I sure do learn a lot
from this awesome Pastor I listen to.

Semantics

 

[icedtea]

Yes that is one sign that they have been glorified by God, incorruptness. St. Nektarios for example was dug up after 20 years, and his body still looked like he had just died. Yet another sign from God that He Glorified Him.

Who thought to dig him up? And wheres the historical proof?
Only God is to be glorified.

 

[TheDivaAngel]

No Thekla you do a very good job. It is just that people need to experience actual Holy people to understand. I remember when I first met Geronda Ephraim. I was just in awe of him, and you can feel the Grace of God coming out of him. It permiates from him.

I have met people like that too. It is awe inspiring.

 

[icedtea]

Sounds like Word of Knowledge.
I have had that happen also, several
times and it was so I could pray (I'm
guessing)
BTW, it's not from demons, it's from God.

BIG difference...

I know and you know and many others know this. I am shocked though, that some would attribute God's workings to demons!

 

[repentant]

Who thought to dig him up? And wheres the historical proof?
Only God is to be glorified.

They dug him up to move him...and this was in the 20th century...people were still alive to verify it..

And yes only God is to be Glorified, but again people misunderstand. Saints are Glorified by God, and we whem honor a Saint whom God Glorified, we are Glorifying God and HIs handiwork..

 

[icedtea]

I have met people like that too. It is awe inspiring.

As have I! One time I took my son up for prayer after service.
He got prayed over, and I turned around and boom, there was the pastor with his hand on my head praying for something I had been worried about and not told anyone.
God works through Godly people. (It was a Foursquare church).

 

[icedtea]

Saints are Glorified by God, and we whem honor a Saint whom God Glorified, we are Glorifying God and HIs handiwork..

A former pastor's wife, now in Heaven, was considered a saint by all who knew her. I dunno why the church hasn't made her official yet.

 

[TheDivaAngel]

As have I! One time I took my son up for prayer after service.
He got prayed over, and I turned around and boom, there was the pastor with his hand on my head praying for something I had been worried about and not told anyone.
God works through Godly people. (It was a Foursquare church).

COOL!!!!!!! God does work in mysterious ways. Jack Hayford is a 4Square pastor is he not?

 

[Theophorus]

Those who do not follow other men ignore what the scriptures have to say concerning the matter.

For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.

Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:

For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus:

That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.