It's been really quiet poll

[Paidiske]

What do you think about the Second Coming? The Second Coming creates a deadline for saving souls too. Of course saving souls might not have been the original meaning of the Great Commission. IDK

Well, I do believe that Christ will come again. I don't really react to it as an approaching deadline, though, so much as a promise that there will be an end to all of this world's brokenness and wrongs.

Perhaps it would feel more like a deadline if I thought it likely to be soon, but I look back on two millennia of Christians and think it's no more likely to be in my lifetime than any other time before now.

And when it comes to saving souls, I really trust God to do what needs to be done for each person. Myself, I try to be obedient in my little corner of life and get on with what I feel called to do, and not stress about the rest too much.

 

[dlamberth]

That said, the mission of God is a lot more complex and multi-stranded than just "going to church and saving people." It also encompasses caring for those in need (without strings), working for peace and justice, caring for the environment and so on.

I don't think its hard or complex at all. It's all centered around Love. Pretty simple. It's us people who have a way of making it hard and complex.

 

[Paidiske]

I didn't say it was hard.

But it's complex in the sense that - if you can boil it all down to "love" - then it's love expressed in a range of different ways, and in a variety of different contexts. There's variety and diversity. You can't reduce it down to just one priority, one type of action, one goal.

 

[dlamberth]

I didn't say it was hard.

But it's complex in the sense that - if you can boil it all down to "love" - then it's love expressed in a range of different ways, and in a variety of different contexts. There's variety and diversity. You can't reduce it down to just one priority, one type of action, one goal.

Love isn't a goal. It's also not a lot of rules and stuff. Love is alive and vibrant. It has texture and color. That's where the variety and diversity comes in. But it's still all Love. Compassion, Empathy, Service to those in need...It's all Love. The Heart of Christ? Love!!

 

[Paidiske]

Love isn't a goal. It's also not a lot of rules and stuff. Love is alive and vibrant. It has texture and color. That's where the variety and diversity comes in. But it's still all Love. Compassion, Empathy, Service to those in need...It's all Love. The Heart of Christ? Love!!

I think love has a goal, or to use a classical term, a telos.

But my original point was just that mission can't be boiled down to "saving souls," as if, if we could just drag people over the line of some sort of minimal Christian experience, that would fulfill the purpose of our vocation.

Can you say that every aspect of mission is love? Sure, because it's the mission of God, and God is love. But if the point of mission is actually doing stuff, then I think we need to get a bit more specific in what we're aiming to do together.

 

[dlamberth]

I think love has a goal, or to use a classical term, a telos.

I know this is esoteric stuff, but here goes. In it's purest sense, I think that if Love has a goal, than it's something other than Love. Love is of the Heart. The Heart doesn't set goals. Goals come into being when the thinking brain is brought into play. Maybe a person feels empathy. The brain than starts wondering what it can do when feeling that feeling. That's when the brain sets a goal.

But my original point was just that mission can't be boiled down to "saving souls," as if, if we could just drag people over the line of some sort of minimal Christian experience, that would fulfill the purpose of our vocation.

What's the purpose of vocation that's wanting to be fulfilled? And what's a minimal Christian experience? I guess I'm not seeing how a full Christian experience can happen outside of Love at it center. Or maybe I'm not at all understanding where your coming from.

Can you say that every aspect of mission is love? Sure, because it's the mission of God, and God is love. But if the point of mission is actually doing stuff, then I think we need to get a bit more specific in what we're aiming to do together.

I think every aspect of any mission needs to be born out of Love. If it doesn't start there, I don't think it's a mission of God. Yes, it can take different directions, but if it's truly a mission of God, the Light of God needs to be kept intact through out the process. At least from how I know it.

 

[Paidiske]

I know this is esoteric stuff, but here goes. In it's purest sense, I think that if Love has a goal, than it's something other than Love. Love is of the Heart. The Heart doesn't set goals. Goals come into being when the thinking brain is brought into play. Maybe a person feels empathy. The brain than starts wondering what it can do when feeling that feeling. That's when the brain sets a goal.

That's a very human way of considering love. But a Christian would say that God is love; that is, the three persons of the Trinity exist in a continual dynamic of other-centred love, which overflows from the persons of the godhead and into God's relationship with creation. Therefore the heart/brain distinction is irrelevant.

What's the purpose of vocation that's wanting to be fulfilled? And what's a minimal Christian experience? I guess I'm not seeing how a full Christian experience can happen outside of Love at it center. Or maybe I'm not at all understanding where your coming from.

I'm guessing that last is probably the case.

What's the purpose of vocation, is, for me, a bit like asking what's the purpose of existence? God created each of us, uniquely gifts each of us, and calls each of us into participating in God's purposes (God's love, if you like). So, from God's end, I guess the purpose of vocation is about our growth into what God has created us to be; and from our end, the purpose of vocation is to discern who we are created to be, and to live that out.

What I'm trying to articulate is that I don't find the idea - raised by a PP - that Christianity is meant to be all about "saving souls" at all an adequate account.

I think every aspect of any mission needs to be born out of Love. If it doesn't start there, I don't think it's a mission of God. Yes, it can take different directions, but if it's truly a mission of God, the Light of God needs to be kept intact through out the process. At least from how I know it.

Sure. But we could say "Our mission is love," and while not untrue, it also tells you precisely nothing about what we actually feel called to do.

 

[Robban]

Love isn't a goal. It's also not a lot of rules and stuff. Love is alive and vibrant. It has texture and color. That's where the variety and diversity comes in. But it's still all Love. Compassion, Empathy, Service to those in need...It's all Love. The Heart of Christ? Love!!

"Service" is a good word I think

Serve the Almighty with joy,
whatever the circumstance,
serve with joy.

Or, in other words, with a willingness,

 

[Andrewn]

Well, I do believe that Christ will come again. I don't really react to it as an approaching deadline, though, so much as a promise that there will be an end to all of this world's brokenness and wrongs. Perhaps it would feel more like a deadline if I thought it likely to be soon,

Regardless of whether Christ will come again in my lifetime or whether He will come again at my deathbed, which is a lot more likely, there is a deadline for my role in this world and for the people around me.

 

[Andrewn]

I don't think its [love] hard or complex at all. It's all centered around Love. Pretty simple. It's us people who have a way of making it hard and complex.

The problem is that there are unlovable people in the world: ISIS, Al Qaeda, child molesters, human traffickers, etc.

 

[cloudyday2]

Perhaps it would feel more like a deadline if I thought it likely to be soon, but I look back on two millennia of Christians and think it's no more likely to be in my lifetime than any other time before now.

There is also the deadline of death

 

[dlamberth]

The problem is that there are unlovable people in the world: ISIS, Al Qaeda, child molesters, human traffickers, etc.

The real problem is with each of us. We really aren't preaching the things of Love. We look to and blame others for that lack.

 

[dlamberth]

That's a very human way of considering love. But a Christian would say that God is love; that is, the three persons of the Trinity exist in a continual dynamic of other-centred love, which overflows from the persons of the godhead and into God's relationship with creation.

That's all nice theology and all. My question is this: How does a person actually make God a reality in their lives, today where God is needed the most. What are they bringing into their lives to have that happen?

Therefore the heart/brain distinction is irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant at all when a person desires to bring in the Heart connections. When we learn to work with Heart, learning how ego creeps in being aware of it is very helpful.

What's the purpose of vocation, is, for me, a bit like asking what's the purpose of existence? God created each of us, uniquely gifts each of us, and calls each of us into participating in God's purposes (God's love, if you like). So, from God's end, I guess the purpose of vocation is about our growth into what God has created us to be; and from our end, the purpose of vocation is to discern who we are created to be, and to live that out.

I tend to frame it into a spiritual search led by a question: What does it mean to be a more fully human, Human Being? The answer I believe can be found in what I've been saying all along, which is through Love, Compassion, Empathy and Service.

What I'm trying to articulate is that I don't find the idea - raised by a PP - that Christianity is meant to be all about "saving souls" at all an adequate account.

With this you have hit the ball out of the ballpark!! Thank You!!

Sure. But we could say "Our mission is love," and while not untrue, it also tells you precisely nothing about what we actually feel called to do.

It's really interesting when watching it play out, but when we truly do live a life full of Love, that calling or vocation as you call it will bubble up. The reason being is that through Love we are much more attuned to and opened to the desires of God.

 

[cloudyday2]

The problem is that there are unlovable people in the world: ISIS, Al Qaeda, child molesters, human traffickers, etc.

Christianity says you need to love them. "Bless those who curse you" in emulation of God who sends the rain to fall on both the good and the bad. As Jesus said (paraphrasing) if it wasn't difficult to love the unlovable then it wouldn't be a way of honoring God.

(Of course I am sure that is nothing you haven't heard a billion times before - Christianity 101)

 

[Paidiske]

There is also the deadline of death

True. I guess the point I made earlier, about how I trust God to do what is necessary for each person, means I don't feel like I'm racing to save people before they (or I) die, either.

That's all nice theology and all. My question is this: How does a person actually make God a reality in their lives, today where God is needed the most. What are they bringing into their lives to have that happen?

I would say a person does not "make" God a reality in their lives. (That's a bit like asking how someone makes the sun a reality in his or her life). The reality is the reality; the question is how we respond to that light.

It's not irrelevant at all when a person desires to bring in the Heart connections. When we learn to work with Heart, learning how ego creeps in being aware of it is very helpful.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. The idea that one would have to "bring in the Heart connections" doesn't really relate to my spirituality at all.

 

[dlamberth]

I would say a person does not "make" God a reality in their lives. (That's a bit like asking how someone makes the sun a reality in his or her life). The reality is the reality; the question is how we respond to that light.

In how we respond to the Light of God is how we make God our reality. I know of a couple of people who never go outside. Day time comes, but they aren't out in the Sun. They do not feel it's warmth or enjoy it's light other than as a light bulb. The sun for them isn't much of a reality beyond that.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. The idea that one would have to "bring in the Heart connections" doesn't really relate to my spirituality at all.

Things like Love, Compassion, Empathy and Service is stuff of the Heart. We can't think our way to those things. They come from somewhere else. I'd think that as a Christian that they would very much be central to one's spirituality.

 

[Paidiske]

Things like Love, Compassion, Empathy and Service is stuff of the Heart. We can't think our way to those things. They come from somewhere else. I'd think that as a Christian that they would very much be central to one's spirituality.

I don't separate thinking and feeling; they're both part of the same complex cognitive reality.

And love, to me, is the choice to do something for someone else's good; so it is neither about thinking nor feeling but will and action.

 

[dlamberth]

And love, to me, is the choice to do something for someone else's good; so it is neither about thinking nor feeling but will and action.

I find myself feeling a bit of blessings from the Poets who find much more going on with Love beyond will and action.

 

[Noxot]

Lol the number of christians going to 4 channel is comical to see. I am sure reddit has something to do with pulling some away from smaller places. Humans tend to flock to big popular places hence facebook and ect. I am sure nostalgia will call people back here every once in a while.

I think this site is well designed so it has that going for it

 

[ChavaK]

Because I am not Christian my participation in a forum that used to be open to me to post no longer is. I spend little time at CF now so I spend little time at any of the subforums. The rules are too restrictive since they changed who could post. I know others who are no longer here for the same reason.